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06-07-2018, 12:03 AM - 1 Like   #181
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Fundamentally, Sony aren't selling more than Pentax,
Do you have any arguments (sales reports or something)?

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
except that Sony make sure that the Sony cameras are promoted first and at the expense of other brands. Now in my city, Sony have clogged every shop with they promotional materials, so much that Canon Europe came to build an open air stand to still have a word and be seen in the city! In my usually camera shop, if I ask to buy any of Canon, Nikon, Fuji cameras, they systematically propose me a Sony and even if I say "no thanks, can I see the Canon 5DVI?" they say "Sorry we don't have in stock at the moment, but in the meantime you can try the Sony A7III" !!!
So again, both Canon and Sony make efforts in terms of marketing. I see a lot of marketing for every brand, except Pentax. To me it's strange for a company (regardless the name behind it, regardless of the financial power) to be absent in online at this point. How much will cost them to update their Youtube channel for example with some beautiful time lapse videos done by the ambassadors or with some wildlife images since they released the 150-450mm first instead of 2-3 primes? I'm just asking, how would they want me to buy their products if they are nowhere to be found?

I just checked Ricoh website ( HOME | RICOH IMAGING ) and I can't find the Facebook or Instragram buttons on the landing page. Come on, give to a young passionate guy 2000$ per month to deal with social media and with Pentax ambassadors and give him a 200 or 400$ to create adds with offers, with videos, with pictures of ambassadors and at least we will be able to see something on the internet regarding Pentax products. Otherwise, we hear about Pentax for a few days when they release a new product and then they dissapear from online.

06-07-2018, 12:35 AM - 4 Likes   #182
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Syndicated reporting. If you look closely at AP and some of the monthly UK magazines + DPR you will see the same names show up time and again. Westlake is one, Demolder is another (he is a closet Pentax fan though, his favourite lens is the 43 and he has a soft spot for the 55 ), another would be Angela Nicholson (she doesn't like the Pentax menu structure, been knocking it for at least 5 years) , see a pattern? They are all mirrorless fans which is probably the way to go longterm from a development perspective. Sony are the main supplier of CMOS sensors, and they will drive the development path.
Saying all that, Pentax seems to become more niche, a DSLR Leica. We've seen examples with the FA Limited line and also the DA limited line as to how they think their customers use their cameras. The K-1 series has a tough job, on one hand it needs to be something that can do justice to the FA Limiteds, relatively small, sturdy, discrete (compared to a D850 or D5 or the 5D iv it succeeds) but also it needs to be able to handle the zooms that as everyone knows () a Pro needs, which is can do as well but the sensor architecture is a generation out of date and can't handle 4K video streaming or high burst rates and it gets compared to cameras at a (much) higher price point or equivalent price point with lower IQ but more features for the photographer who points and shoots or aspires to be sports / action photographers which is course what everyone needs to be [dose of Irish sarcasm there]

In some ways Pentax has a romantic notion of what photography is about, it is an emotional tactile thing which completely goes over the heads of the current day click bait reporting with a 10 min mind hold. But give me a choice of an mid to late 80s F1 Turbo car verses the modern day equivalent and I'd know which one I'd strap myself into despite the fact it would be harder to drive, more scary, more dangerous... Its all about emotion, life is a series of emotions and that is where they are all missing the point. the quadrillion focus points, or the sterile sharpness across the frame, or the 20fps burst speed, imagine a setting sun, a K-1 + a 43, an Italian forum background, a lover gets down on his knee 8 feet in front of you and proposes to his girlfriend, boyfriend, whatever, and you capture the moment with the perfect lens at the perfect aperture with the perfect exposure. Click.

Now tell me you what you need in a camera and system?
06-07-2018, 12:53 AM   #183
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Fundamentally, Sony aren't selling more than Pentax, except that Sony make sure that the Sony cameras are promoted first and at the expense of other brands.

The 2018 BCN camera rankings are out (Nikon sales in Japan: cameras up, lenses down) | Nikon Rumors

Ricoh has 4.2% of Japanese DSLR market.
Sony has 20.2% of Japanese mirrorless market.

2017 year January - December
Total shipment of mirrorless cameras to Japan 544 828 pcs.
Total shipment of DSLR to Japan 673 971 pcs.

It means that Sony sold almost 110 000 cameras only at Japanese market.
Ricoh - 28 306 cameras.

CIPA - Camera & Imaging Products Association: Digital Cameras
chrome-extension://encfpfilknmenlmjemepncnlbbjlabkc/http://www.cipa.jp/stats/documents/e/d-2017_e.pdf

Japan is the biggest market for Ricoh's cameras sales.

Last edited by ogl; 06-07-2018 at 12:59 AM.
06-07-2018, 12:56 AM   #184
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QuoteOriginally posted by robbiec Quote
Now tell me you what you need in a camera and system?
All I need is the comfort of knowing that I have anything I want anytime I want. And the comfort of having support of the manufacturer. I do like your choice regarding the car from the 80s vs a modern one, but if I would have to go visit a few countries in Europe, I would pick the modern car because it offers me comfort of knowing that I can find a service in each city able to repair my car in case that something goes wrong and it offers me comfort of improved suspension, improved interior, air conditioner, etc. (things that can make a difference on longer trips, especialy if you are a traveler). For day by day use I would probably pick the car from the 80s.

06-07-2018, 01:05 AM   #185
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Ok Everybody in this forum has respect and love to Pentax camera . I talk about camera not company itself.
May be we need add some filter from administrator or at list some verification rumors before start new sensitive post.
I think we cant bring here directly representative Penatx or at list press=secretary and directly ask about future and this is biggest problem
06-07-2018, 01:09 AM   #186
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote


So again, both Canon and Sony make efforts in terms of marketing. I see a lot of marketing for every brand, except Pentax.
They did it in Japan, but not much.
06-07-2018, 01:12 AM   #187
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QuoteOriginally posted by dstar Quote
I talk about camera not company itself.
You cannot put camera away from the it's initial maker. We need the wider perspective, thus - comparing with the other manufacturers to express our demands from the future models. In this case we are letting Ricoh know what we need (assuming there is someone who reads Pforums).

06-07-2018, 01:19 AM   #188
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Do you really filling they paid attention about our worry
06-07-2018, 02:00 AM   #189
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
Do you have any arguments (sales reports or something)?



So again, both Canon and Sony make efforts in terms of marketing. I see a lot of marketing for every brand, except Pentax. To me it's strange for a company (regardless the name behind it, regardless of the financial power) to be absent in online at this point. How much will cost them to update their Youtube channel for example with some beautiful time lapse videos done by the ambassadors or with some wildlife images since they released the 150-450mm first instead of 2-3 primes? I'm just asking, how would they want me to buy their products if they are nowhere to be found?

I just checked Ricoh website ( HOME | RICOH IMAGING ) and I can't find the Facebook or Instragram buttons on the landing page. Come on, give to a young passionate guy 2000$ per month to deal with social media and with Pentax ambassadors and give him a 200 or 400$ to create adds with offers, with videos, with pictures of ambassadors and at least we will be able to see something on the internet regarding Pentax products. Otherwise, we hear about Pentax for a few days when they release a new product and then they dissapear from online.
I do wonder about actual market shares -- not in terms of camera sales, but in terms of cameras in use. I do watch when I am out and about to see what cameras people are using and most of what I see is Canon and Nikon (weighted pretty heavily to the Canons). Most of these are T4i/T5I type cameras with kit lenses or D3200s. I have seen occasional Sonys, but never an Olympus or Pentax. The wedding photographers I see working seem to use full frame Canon and Nikon exclusively.

My guess is that mirrorless must do a bunch better in Asia and Europe, but I just don't see them in my part of the US.

(The vast majority of people don't have a dedicated camera any more, but rather use smart phones).
06-07-2018, 02:06 AM - 2 Likes   #190
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kevin B123 Quote
Umm, Let's say Mazda then, for reliabilities sake
Let's say Subaru. Playing their own game for decades.
06-07-2018, 02:14 AM - 1 Like   #191
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QuoteOriginally posted by dstar Quote
Do you really filling they paid attention about our worry
Pentax/Ricoh has to choose between customers and I assume it's not easy. It's impossible to satisfy everyone's needs given how small is Ricoh as a player in the photo market. It's imposible also for Canon or Nikon to satisfy all the needs of photographers, but at least they have a mature system behind.

As I said, there are:
1. customers like Rondec who will buy new cameras and lenses (first class clients),
2. customers like Normhead (second class clients) who bought K1 and use it with legacy lenses or with third party lenses due to the fact that there are not f4 zoom lenses and no wide angle primes
3. customers that buy only second hand products and these clients are good because they count as numbers, not for increasing the sales

The problem of the lenses will be solved someday (we don't know when but I'm pretty sure it will not be in 1-3 years) so some Pentaxians are waiting the slow release of Pentax lenses given the fact that they don't make a living from photography or simply because the trinity from Pentax is enough for them.

The problems for Pentax are (in my opinion):
1. the customers who start to invest in a second system to fill some gaps in Pentax line. These are difficult clients because they can leave Pentax if they find that the other system is more suited to their style so they sell their Pentax gear to finance the aquisition of lenses for the other system.
2. the lack of new customers (25 to 50 years old) due to:
- slow release of new lenses
- articles which are missleading regarding the future of the Pentax, regarding the af or the lenses, etc.
3. the new generation of photographers who don't have a clue about Pentax and they don't give a .... about legacy lenses. Some will say that they don't count so much, but they do because they spend money blinded by aggressive marketing.

Ricoh has to pay atention to what their customers are doing since K1 was launched and with all this craziness about mirrorless, they have another difficult choice to make: stay with DSLR and became even more a niche company due to their lack of marketing or try to keep their market share by doing something to be seen in the online market.

---------- Post added 06-07-18 at 09:26 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Most of these are T4i/T5I type cameras with kit lenses or D3200s. I have seen occasional Sonys, but never an Olympus or Pentax.
It's because these cameras are:
- cheap
- well marketed (Canon makes videos in which they say about their entry level cameras that are suited to action, to families with active kids, etc.)
- can be found everywhere

The former Nikon ambassador from Romania went to Olympus and I'm amazed about how many people jumped to Olympus because of him. Even guys with D500, D810, 5D Mark IV sold their gear and went to Olympus. A single guy changed the sales figures a lot in Romania for Olympus. Could Ricoh would have benefit from a guy like this? We don't know since no one from Pentax Romania approached him and ask him what he want to promote Pentax. Now Sony and Fuji wants to give him cameras for tests hoping that he will leave Olympus. But if Ricoh is expecting to see clients falling from the sky without doing anything to attract them...

Last edited by Dan Rentea; 06-07-2018 at 02:31 AM.
06-07-2018, 02:31 AM - 1 Like   #192
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Back on subject

I have and have closely read the paper copy of the review

Andy Westlake does not actually dis Pentax or the camera or predict Pentax's demise
In fact he gives a rather positive review and recommends the camera whilst stating that it is not really a big improvement and bemoaning the lack of fast zoom and prime lens

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06-07-2018, 02:39 AM   #193
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Then the original post is fake news?
06-07-2018, 02:51 AM   #194
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Would seem so

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06-07-2018, 02:53 AM   #195
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I do watch when I am out and about to see what cameras people are using and most of what I see is Canon and Nikon (weighted pretty heavily to the Canons). Most of these are T4i/T5I type cameras with kit lenses or D3200s. I have seen occasional Sonys, but never an Olympus or Pentax.
I saw a Pentax in Poole museum yesterday - and it wasn't an exhibit!
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