[BigMackCam]

^^^ Excellent post, Alex

One of Westlake's evidence that Pentax is "destined to join" (Konica-Minolta, Yashica) is the rate of annual releases coming to "a trickle"

I found the mention of Konica-Minolta quite amusing in that article. Its camera business was acquired by Sony in 2006 (if I remember correctly), and much of the technology - including the Minolta AF mount - became the cornerstone of Sony's earlier A-mount DSLR and, later, SLT cameras. The brand may have died, but the technology didn't, and the lenses remain usable to this day on the Sony A99 MkII...

[Kevin B123]

What is consorting? It sounds dirty.

It might have been cohorting, I read too much into things

[reh321]

... although the Canon 6DII or the Nikon D600 were technical flops, there must be a balance between selling a new product at the high season vs. damage to the brand rep.

The big issue for Nikon is cash flow.
Hopefully for them, the D850 makes up for the D600.

[Alex645]

The big issue for Nikon is cash flow.

I agree, but cash flow is an issue for nearly everyone.

That's why most companies (cars, phones, computers, software, cameras) will release products, not necessarily when they are bug-free, but when the holiday season starts or the trade show opens. Good for cash flow.

Nikon made money on the D600, but took a hit on their reputation. Anyone teetering on the fence would jump after hearing about the oil spot issues on the sensors. The same could be said of the Canon 6DII; a 2017 release with the same DR of their 5DII released in 2008 and a lower video bit rate than the previous 6D model.

Imagine if the Pentax K1ii was in anyway worse than the K1? Pentax would still profit, but take a hit on their reputation and future sales.

I believe Ricoh is being prudent with their resources (i.e. cash) and is conservatively releasing new product that is not so much on a wish list, but rather a need list.

AF, video, more lenses, more models sooner, mirrorless, etc, are IMO on the wish list. But considering the non-Pentax options, Ricoh knows they cannot compete and shouldn't and won't. They need to best understand their niche and where is the biggest potential profit and growth...or these day to sustain? Is their slogan "Imagine. Change." a message to us or the others? I think the latter.

[D1N0]

Its just a lazy opinion. Other companies have also slowed down. Its just the saturated market.

[MarkJerling]

This is the article:
Dropbox - andywestlakepessimistic.jpg

Thank you. So, OP was on the mark in terms of what the article says.

[RobA_Oz]

Thank you. So, OP was on the mark in terms of what the article says.

I’d say close, but not quite on the mark. The thread title was the real problem, in my view, because it tends to skew what you subsequently read.

[Not a Number]

Ok, so this is just an opinion piece under the author's regular "Veiwpoint" column. Neither news nor rumor not even an article. It's not "fake news" because it isn't being passed off as news.

[J.Pecora]

No, they aren't. NOONE is using Pentax as a vlog camera, because for VLOG you need at least decent AF during video (face detection), have 60p (not "i") for b-rolls and have better mbps in terms of bitrate.

Indeed. Fancy video capabilities are probably overkill for YouTube, considering the fact that so many people view YouTube (and the rest of the web) on mobile - 70% of all time spent on YouTube is now conducted via mobile device, according to some 2017 data.

There are people like MKBHD who use 8K Reds for their YouTube videos (in-studio, but not when vlogging), so that's something everyone should aim for in YouTube video production, I guess. But at the moment I don't think there are even any mobile devices capable of displaying full-res 4K video, let alone anything higher, so one doesn't need to set the bar too high for YouTube video.

Yep. If I was starting from nothing and deciding 'Self Important Vlogging Is the Go!' a Panny GX85 would be a first leg up.

But if I already had any kind of camera, Canon, Nikon, Pentax or whatever, and lenses for it, I'd use that.

I appreciate everyone's input and responses.

I should say that I am interested in getting more into video shooting in general and not just in the sense of considering starting a YouTube channel. If a small business client asks if I can shoot some video for their website I would like to be able to do that with Pentax gear. As it was pointed out, and I am aware, there are other brand options for this kind of thing but I would rather give my money to Pentax. I know realities and desires are different and perhaps Pentax has no interest in pursing video but I personally feel it would aid in attracting more younger pros. I don't know how small or large of a group we are but I am one of the young working pro's using Pentax. Never shot film with Pentax, my first camera was a K10D and I started shooting weddings on that. When my Sony and Canon shooting peers saw the K1 they were blown away by it's photo functions, lay out and robustness. After they checked it out for about 2 minutes the first question was how is it with video. Video is something that many younger pros are looking for. We don't see video features as a gimmick or cool tech that increases the value of our gear we see it as a future investment. With tight finances we want to know that if we decide to branch out into video in the future we won't have to shell out extra cash on a second system. That is why it may seem that fewer young pros choose Pentax over other systems that provide a stronger video set but crappier button lay outs and menu systems. It is better to start in a system you know you can grow into and strong video features in flagships is part of that.

I love Pentax and as far as photography goes I think they are a stellar choice, but now that I am looking to branch out into video I am concerned. If I was someone just now looking to shoot professionally and deciding on my first camera in a system I know I would be looking at how my choice will effect my future business decisions. I would see that if someday I wanted to start learning video I would have to limit my choices to X, Y, and Z camera producers, which currently would exclude Pentax.

Anyway I think Ricoh has been making some great improvements in the Pentax brand. I don't see them going away anytime soon in my opinion. I just feel that providing a system a pro can grow in is important to the longevity of the brand.

My expectations are not for 4k for YouTube. I am mostly hoping for IS and AF for video and a good bit rate / codec that can hold up to some color grading. I have been learning and working with Pentax and GoPro footage in Premiere and the Pentax footage provides little flexibility when it comes to color grading and tonal adjustments.
I am not interested in the whole look at me, look what I can do vlogging thing. I am thinking something more documentary style but for an online format, I don't want to get into the concept for the channel as it is all just ideas in the ether at the moment but it won't be vlogging. I don't follow vloggers much so that is not really where my interests lay.

[clackers]

DPR gives less than glowing review of Pentax camera, Pentaxians are not happy. DPR sees flaws in their review, after much Pentaxian frothing, and makes an effort to correct the issues. Pentaxians are still not happy! Instead, they go berserk!

Doing so by questioning DPR staff's education, intellect, and objectivity... throw in some conspiracy claims.. mix in a little defamation lawsuit suggestion.. and wham-o you have Pentaxians on forums today.


If anything, I think all the Pentaxian's negativity at perceived slights or negativity on the brand are more detrimental to the brand than the so-called 'doomsayers' they're lambasting. We come off as hostile and unreasonable.

You count yourself as 'we', @Mee?

You're not on my Ignore list, so I'm a forum member who's actually read you saying that.

Exactly what's your contribution to this community? The pictures, the social engagement, the helping of newbies?

The Pentaxians who held DPR accountable for flawed testing are heroes, IMHO, and no surprise, you're attacking them rather than DPR.

[surfar]

I just feel that providing a system a pro can grow in is important to the longevity of the brand.

Well perhaps the next Apsc dual card body may have something to offer you?

Nordic Pentax ambassador,Kenspo, shoots Panasonic for his video camera and the K-1ii for stills of course.

[clackers]

Thank you D1N0, for the article.

IMHO, Westlake is playing a double game.

I read genuine affection in the piece for Pentax, but also a lazy job of submitting an editorial - it's FUD of the kind we've seen for years.

You could write one of these each week for almost any brand in the troubled camera industry to fulfill the filed story quota for your employer.

That he doesn't realize that before Ricoh, Pentax was a name owned by Hoya and other companies throughout its history is a minor detail, but it just shows that despite being paid to be an expert, he's not informed about his subject.

[Douglas_of_Sweden]

Amateur Photographer a well respected weekly photo news and review publication in the UK has just Predicted end Pentax and K1ii likely to be it's last new Camera. Article written by Andy Westlake who is Technical Editor and a former DPReview reviewer, wrote that the slow down in the release of new lenses, camera bodies and Ricoh's reluctance to enter the mirrorless market will lead to the demise of Pentax due to lack of research and development. He says quote "Pentax isn't even a company in its own right any more" pointing to Pentax just being a brand name used by Ricoh. At the end of the article he says "it will be a real shame to see Pentax disappear, but the Pentax K1 mark ii would be a fitting last hurrah"

Although we've all read the writing is on the wall for Pentax in the past it has been easy to dismiss. But to read an article by a respected publication, by a knowledgeable and respected photojournalist is a bit more concerning than random stories from the mass online media. Anyone else read the article or have any thoughts?

DPreview and respected in the same post.... !?!

---------- Post added 06-08-18 at 07:58 AM ----------

Statistics is revealing, isn't it?
Pentax has released 30 bodies since 2003...
The OP made 34 posts since he joined 2008.
Clearly, he out-numbers Pentax!

Having finally read the article, I think the thread title is misleading as this is a "viewpoint" or editorial commentary by one columnist (vs. a feature article in the mag) that is a lot of speculation and very little news or facts. For AP readers, it makes for good bathroom/washroom/WC material and Westlake will get an uptick in messages from Pentaxians that will reinforce the value of FUD as click bait.

One of Westlake's evidence that Pentax is "destined to join" (Konica-Minolta, Yashica) is the rate of annual releases coming to "a trickle". In terms of Pentax DSLRs, here are the actual numbers:

2017: 1
2016: 2
2015: 2
2014: 2
2013: 3
2012: 3
2011: 0
2010: 3
2009: 2
2008: 3
2007: 1
2006: 4
2005: 2
2004: 1
2003: 1

That's an average of two DSLRs (Aps-c, FF, MF) per year. Yes, Canon and Nikon numbers are double this, but the release rate of new models is not an indicator of impending doom. I have no doubt Canon and Nikon execs have twice the regrets of Ricoh with many of their duds. But I am not an economist and although the Canon 6DII or the Nikon D600 were technical flops, there must be a balance between selling a new product at the high season vs. damage to the brand rep.

[mecrox]

You count yourself as 'we', @Mee?

You're not on my Ignore list, so I'm a forum member who's actually read you saying that.

Exactly what's your contribution to this community? The pictures, the social engagement, the helping of newbies?

The Pentaxians who held DPR accountable for flawed testing are heroes, IMHO, and no surprise, you're attacking them rather than DPR.

This may be a moment to cue that consoling music from the Hamlet cigar ad ...

Did you know that the boss of AmPhoto wears saffron robes and owns 91 Rolls Royces? He bathes in asses’ milk and champagne. He sends deadly sannyasins (second class carriages only, strictly no taxis) to re-educate anyone who has the temerity to say in public what’s long been talked about in private. Ghastly conspiracies known as FUDs are detected as often as seven times daily and are conveyed to him on vellum prepared from the testicles of palm squirrels by a chapter of devoted scribes. Respectable matrons faint on hearing them. Those found guilty as charged (a formality: they were of course always guilty even unto the ninth generation) can expect the most condign punishment from Mr Justice Cocklecarrot of the Bench, if he returns from lunch.

[mee]

You count yourself as 'we', @Mee?

You're not on my Ignore list, so I'm a forum member who's actually read you saying that.

Exactly what's your contribution to this community? The pictures, the social engagement, the helping of newbies?

The Pentaxians who held DPR accountable for flawed testing are heroes, IMHO, and no surprise, you're attacking them rather than DPR.

Perhaps, if you think that lowly of me, you should indeed put me on your ignore list. If you don't see the problem with raging against someone(s) then perhaps you're the issue not the solution. Burning bridges doesn't help us connect. You are a very passionate person, and I can see it comes out in your relentless responses to me.


But maybe if you look deeper you can in fact see the pictures, social engagement, and helping of newbies I have offered to this community over the many years I've frequented here instead of just dismissing me and my views because you don't like to hear what I have to say.