[surfar]

ペンタックス

Ha Ha, thought it was something like that!

[Kunzite]

Unless you spoke Japanese you probably wouldn't recognize it in Kanji.

For the record, this:

ペンタックス

is not Kanji but katakana.
Kanji is not used in cases such as a non-Japanese (brand) name.

[clackers]

I read something regarding ...

You wrote many, many sentences about different topics to different people in that post, Dan, and you know what?

I actually agree with practically all of it … although the bit about mixed temperature light sources is a bit irrelevant, the multisegment AWB in a K-3 or K-1 is JPEG only anyway.

Just shoot RAW with a flash and do all the local colour balance yourself if not using gels to match background lighting, or at the very least, get the subject right by choosing Daylight to match the 540 itself, and handle the ambient sources in post. If you've got someone sitting down near grass under a tree, you've always got to drop the ambient exposure because you don't want any of that sickly green colour cast remaining on their face. I do look at 'Natural Light Only Shooters' showing me pics taken in that situation and I can only smile politely and nod!

I don't do anything different when using my Pentax, or my Sony, or if I'm using my friends' 5D Mk III, Panasonic GH5 or Nikon D810 or D750, manual or TTL, because as you say, photography techniques are universal.

BTW, I always wear latex gloves when shooting with those other brands so that I don't get my Pentax dirty afterwards.

Kidding … kidding!

[LensBeginner]

ペンタックス

Looks familiar from when I was browsing Camera No Naniwa's online catalog...

[Rondec]

Yes, I know that Cactus offers support for Pentax and I do hope that Godox will join Pentax and they will release a Godox X1T-P or a Xpro1-P trigger.

As for on camera TTL flash, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's still far for being accurate or consistent. It tends to overexpose and the color temperature is not consistent, at least not with Pentax 540FZG flash.

By the way, how would you convince a portrait photographer to buy Pentax if you are at a photo tour for example?

---------- Post added 06-09-18 at 11:32 PM ----------



Yeees, I am familiar with the phrase. I run with lots of herds and I always try to differentiate from them, but not with the gear I use. You maybe realised already that I don't care what it is written in front on my camera as long as the camera does what I want from it. To me is kind of silly if someone comes and tells me I bought a Phase One because I don't want to run with the herd.

I think Pentaxians are a bit sensitive, Dan, because we have been told by Canon and Nikon (and now Sony) folks for the last ten plus years that we are sailing on the Titanic. The brand is dying and it can't do all the things that other brands can do. Personally, I think all of the camera companies are a poor release or two away from being in trouble. Those that are part of a bigger company, like Sony and Canon, could weather such an event better, but clearly if Sony suddenly gained 30 percent of Canon's market share it would put a lot of strain on the camera division and there would be plenty of hand wringing going on.

Pentax as a brand is not designed to sell the number of cameras that the bigger brands sell. My guess is that at current levels they are doing fine and while they would like to grow some, they don't want to do so too quickly.

As far as selling Pentax to other folks, I'm not a brand ambassador, but generally it is photos that do so. My photos are OK and people typically tell me that I must have a nice camera and then ask me what I shoot. When I tell them I shoot Pentax, they are usually surprised and think it is some sort of top end brand like Leica. For most folks, though, things like external flash or DXO Mark graphs just aren't important. A Pentax APS-C camera with a DA 18-135 lens will work as well as a similar set up from Canon or Nikon. Maybe a little better build, but certainly that isn't going to make your photos better.

Regardless, my perspective is that Pentax is the same as it has been. Not going to challenge Canon for market dominance, but not going away either.

[LensBeginner]

*snip*

For most folks, though, things like external flash or DXO Mark graphs just aren't important. A Pentax APS-C camera with a DA 18-135 lens will work as well as a similar set up from Canon or Nikon. Maybe a little better build, but certainly that isn't going to make your photos better.

Regardless, my perspective is that Pentax is the same as it has been. Not going to challenge Canon for market dominance, but not going away either.

I think "most folks" just buy the DSLR on offer (and possibly on sale) at their local electronics retailer ("I need a camera for my vacations", "I made a bargain! a pro[-looking] camera for just 399.99! and it came with two lenses!").

Regarding Pentax, I'm a little bit more afraid that I was in the past because 1. it has become clear than their focus is maintaining their user base instead of trying to grow (if 90% of what? 5% market share? want something, and 45% of 50% market share want something else, what's the more reasonable business proposition?) 2. profit margins for the K-1 look slim 3. they've had more serious reliability issues compared to the past 4. market is shrinking and 5. some things surfaced that weren't exactly good for its parent company (see the Ricoh India scandal)
Those things on top of my mind, then there's the copier business, which isn't in as good a shape as the competitor's apparently. And we're going towards a paperless world.

I don't want to sound overly pessimistic, and Pentax has launched some top-notch camera models lately, but there are lots of clouds lurking in PentaxLand as well.

[Kevin B123]

Regarding Pentax, I'm a little bit more afraid that I was in the past because 1. it has become clear than their focus is maintaining their user base instead of trying to grow (if 90% of what? 5% market share? want something, and 45% of 50% market share want something else, what's the more reasonable business proposition?) 2. profit margins for the K-1 look slim 3. they've had more serious reliability issues compared to the past 4. market is shrinking and 5. some things surfaced that weren't exactly good for its parent company (see the Ricoh India scandal)
Those things on top of my mind, then there's the copier business, which isn't in as good a shape as the competitor's apparently. And we're going towards a paperless world.

I am more relaxed about all these things.

1. Growing the brand organically is required by investors, it means Ricoh are not limited to acquisition only.
2. How do we know the sensitive data around the profit margins of the K-1?
3. The aperture block failure is due to source change rather than design. One recent thread here has discovered the same design in the Super A so it is not a design issue. SDM is another matter and probably design related and due to inadequate product testing. It's the likely cause for the extended time to bring new product market, Ricoh do not want a repeat of that.
4. Organic growth (i.e. new products) in the face of anticipated market trends is a positive thing. Ricoh are not closing shop.
5. The Ricoh India thing is due to a rouge player IIRC, the investors will understand the underlying issue and Ricoh will have to prevent a recurrence. A hit could slow things, but I think only a bank could so exposed to enough risk to be fatal.

The paperless office, that was the office mantra 25 years ago and we still consume plenty of paper, less now perhaps. The office photocopier is now a scanner too, and you save your scans to email and forward to whoever you want to receive it. Thus fax machines have died out and the office copier is an absolute essential piece of kit. If it malfunctions, it's fixed within hours usually. Office copiers/scanners are not going away because there is nothing else to fulfil the task.

[LensBeginner]

I am more relaxed about all these things.

1. Growing the brand organically is required by investors, it means Ricoh are not limited to acquisition only.
2. How do we know the sensitive data around the profit margins of the K-1?
3. The aperture block failure is due to source change rather than design. One recent thread here has discovered the same design in the Super A so it is not a design issue. SDM is another matter and probably design related and due to inadequate product testing. It's the likely cause for the extended time to bring new product market, Ricoh do not want a repeat of that.
4. Organic growth (i.e. new products) in the face of anticipated market trends is a positive thing. Ricoh are not closing shop.
5. The Ricoh India thing is due to a rouge player IIRC, the investors will understand the underlying issue and Ricoh will have to prevent a recurrence. A hit could slow things, but I think only a bank could so exposed to enough risk to be fatal.

The paperless office, that was the office mantra 25 years ago and we still consume plenty of paper, less now perhaps. The office photocopier is now a scanner too, and you save your scans to email and forward to whoever you want to receive it. Thus fax machines have died out and the office copier is an absolute essential piece of kit. If it malfunctions, it's fixed within hours usually. Office copiers/scanners are not going away because there is nothing else to fulfil the task.

2. No way to do that, however in recent debate about this point in the Italian forum the consensus was that margins were bound to be very slim. If you compare the K-1 with the price point of the closest competitors from other major brand (K-1 1799$ at launch IIRC, D810 3300$ at launch, that's a -45% difference for the Pentax), and add the fact that they have larger economies of scale than Pentax, it only follows that they can't make much money out of the body only.
3. I'm not blaming them for the fault, but a recall or at the very least a free fix after having acknowledged the issue would have been a smart move IMHO.
4.
5. I'm not saying it will happen again, only that it happened at perhaps the worst possible moment.

"Office copiers/scanners are not going away", yet Canon is growing and Ricoh is not, if I remember correctly the discussions on the last financial by Ricoh.

[Rondec]

I think "most folks" just buy the DSLR on offer (and possibly on sale) at their local electronics retailer ("I need a camera for my vacations", "I made a bargain! a pro[-looking] camera for just 399.99! and it came with two lenses!").

Regarding Pentax, I'm a little bit more afraid that I was in the past because 1. it has become clear than their focus is maintaining their user base instead of trying to grow (if 90% of what? 5% market share? want something, and 45% of 50% market share want something else, what's the more reasonable business proposition?) 2. profit margins for the K-1 look slim 3. they've had more serious reliability issues compared to the past 4. market is shrinking and 5. some things surfaced that weren't exactly good for its parent company (see the Ricoh India scandal)
Those things on top of my mind, then there's the copier business, which isn't in as good a shape as the competitor's apparently. And we're going towards a paperless world.

I don't want to sound overly pessimistic, and Pentax has launched some top-notch camera models lately, but there are lots of clouds lurking in PentaxLand as well.

Do you actually know the profit margins of the K-1 and K-1 II? Because I would guess they actually have a decent profit margin. Pentax deliberately went out and used an older sensor and built to a specific price point. Odds are that they have made back their R and D and more. Prices have remained very steady up till the release of the K-1 II, unlike in the APS-C line where they would drop by 20 percent pretty quickly. You mentioned the D810 in your post, but my understanding is that the sensor in the K-1 is actually the one in the D800 (it doesn't have iso 64), which in 2018 is now 6 years old. Surely the price has come down some since then (you can still get the D800 for 2250 on Amazon -- old stock, but still not the price delta you are indicating).

As for reliability, I suppose you are referring to aperture block failures and I don't see this as a particular indication of a pervasive problem. If there is an issue it is that they haven't addressed it publicly. That said, Pentax under Hoya sold a huge number of SDM lenses that were known to have failure rates that seemed high, and there have been other issues with releases in the past. They are not alone there either. Nikon had serious issues with a number of their cameras, including the D600 that they only addressed under threat of a class action suit. The point is simply that these aren't new issues or ones that only effect Pentax -- it is hard to read anything dark and deep into them except to say that electronics don't always work the way they are supposed to.

[LensBeginner]

Do you actually know the profit margins of the K-1 and K-1 II? Because I would guess they actually have a decent profit margin. Pentax deliberately went out and used an older sensor and built to a specific price point. Odds are that they have made back their R and D and more. Prices have remained very steady up till the release of the K-1 II, unlike in the APS-C line where they would drop by 20 percent pretty quickly. You mentioned the D810 in your post, but my understanding is that the sensor in the K-1 is actually the one in the D800 (it doesn't have iso 64), which in 2018 is now 6 years old. Surely the price has come down some since then (you can still get the D800 for 2250 on Amazon -- old stock, but still not the price delta you are indicating).

As for reliability, I suppose you are referring to aperture block failures and I don't see this as a particular indication of a pervasive problem. If there is an issue it is that they haven't addressed it publicly. That said, Pentax under Hoya sold a huge number of SDM lenses that were known to have failure rates that seemed high, and there have been other issues with releases in the past. They are not alone there either. Nikon had serious issues with a number of their cameras, including the D600 that they only addressed under threat of a class action suit. The point is simply that these aren't new issues or ones that only effect Pentax -- it is hard to read anything dark and deep into them except to say that electronics don't always work the way they are supposed to.

As I said it's all speculation. I hope you're right, though I fear that the lower cost for older tech is offset by smaller economy of scale.
A good thing they did was the refresh, because it means they are now selling for the original "at launch" price virtually the same item, apart from the new chip which however is already on the KP, so R&D costs were probably minimal.
The stock of upgrade kits sold out at least in the USA (IIRC), so I think this was a very smart move on their part.

I do, and I agree completely with what you're saying: the damage due to FUD and to their "damage control procedures" is probably much greater than the issue in itself. I have bought a failed K-30. No biggie, really.
But picture a new potential customer, which is already scared of entering a niche and be different than his friends, and add the fact that he read about this on the internet. Will he buy Pentax?

[Scorpio71GR]

I personally do not see Pentax going anywhere. Richoh has a timeline of new releases, even if you feel it is not quick enough there are new lenses coming. The K-1 is still doing well and I am sure it has brought some new people into Pentax that could not afford full frame otherwise. Richoh is not going to compete with Cannon or Nikkon simply because they do not need to. The last release of lenses has shown that Richoh is dedicated to releasing high quality equipment, even if some it is rebranded. For a market share the size of Pentax, using rebranded lenses only makes sense. Richoh needs to be cautious and make sure it can at least recover the R&D costs of new equipment. Flooding the market all at once with too much new equipment could actually be more harmful to the company.

I have been reading that Pentax is going away since the 1980's, but here we still are. If you simply must have the newest of the new, the most modern of the moden, then Pentax simply is not for you. However going around bashing the brand is not going to do any good. Just switch brands and move on. My feelings are if you can not get quality photographs with your Pentax gear than you probably will not with any other brand either.

[LensBeginner]

I personally do not see Pentax going anywhere. Richoh has a timeline of new releases, even if you feel it is not quick enough there are new lenses coming. The K-1 is still doing well and I am sure it has brought some new people into Pentax that could not afford full frame otherwise. Richoh is not going to compete with Cannon or Nikkon simply because they do not need to. The last release of lenses has shown that Richoh is dedicated to releasing high quality equipment, even if some it is rebranded. For a market share the size of Pentax, using rebranded lenses only makes sense. Richoh needs to be cautious and make sure it can at least recover the R&D costs of new equipment. Flooding the market all at once with too much new equipment could actually be more harmful to the company.

I have been reading that Pentax is going away since the 1980's, but here we still are. If you simply must have the newest of the new, the most modern of the moden, then Pentax simply is not for you. However going around bashing the brand is not going to do any good. Just switch brands and move on. My feelings are if you can not get quality photographs with your Pentax gear than you probably will not with any other brand either.

If the "you" was directed towards me, and it was not a generic "you", then I must say I'm pretty happy with the brand, and don't think I need anything more from it, except for lenses that are already available on the new or the used market.

My concerns were more towards the well-being of the brand, and its long-term viability: being an amateur, I buy a body and some lenses, and hope they last as long as possible.

[Scorpio71GR]

If the "you" was directed towards me, and it was not a generic "you", then I must say I'm pretty happy with the brand, and don't think I need anything more from it, except for lenses that are already available on the new or the used market.

My concerns were more towards the well-being of the brand, and its long-term viability: being an amateur, I buy a body and some lenses, and hope they last as long as possible.

No, not directed towards anyone at all. I agree that the longevity of the brand is a concern. Right now I feel Pentax as a brand is in no more danger than Nikkon.

[LensBeginner]

No, not directed towards anyone at all. I agree that the longevity of the brand is a concern. Right now I feel Pentax as a brand is in no more danger than Nikkon.

I agree with that... it's years we hear the "Pentax is Doomed!" mantra, and nothing has happened.
(Just to be clear, because it's not the proper use... I take the word "Pentax" to mean "K-mount cameras", since a brand name by itself means little to me)

One last resort in the (let's hope unlikely!) case that production of said cameras is shut down some time in the future: I hope that a maker of adapters will think there's enough market to create a one-off Kmount-to-whatever with full aperture control (not just the "dumb" lever), to use it on a short registration distance digital body.
I'm sure Pentaxians all over the world would buy it en masse.

[asahi man]

Hahahaha amateur photographer is sooooo wrong
They are knowing nothing