[totsmuyco]

I think if Pentax would've known that this aperture block would happened, they would've looked for another manufacturer. It's definitely a bad problem I wouldn't want to have after the warranty period. It pushed me away from getting a ks2.

[RonHendriks1966]

Hummm.... 62 pages for a false prediction based thread.

Maybe you are just impatient and is the guy just like Nostradamus....

[biz-engineer]

Maybe you are just impatient and is the guy just like Nostradamus....

He is the guy who can catch people's attention online, provoke reactions, collect market data and get money from selling the data to whatever company is willing to pay for it.

[Rondec]

Have a read of this very interesting post by photogem: A LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY: Development of the solenoid in Pentax cameras - PentaxForums.com

The aperture solenoid issue has been an interesting dilemma in that relatively few of these failed in the warranty period. And, as soon as Ricoh became aware of the problem, they changed the design of the product.

While many of us feel they could have handled the issue better, the reality is that, in most jurisdictions, there is no incentive for a supplier of any product to continue to fix faults after a warranty period has ended. Any buyer of a K30, K50 or K70 camera would have done well to have purchased an extended warranty in those jurisdictions where one year warranty was all that was offered. Or, they could have elected to buy a product in another jurisdiction with a 2-year warranty or in a jurisdiction with strong consumer protections such as ours where the law holds that a product must continue to function for its intended purpose "for a reasonable amount of time". That is, of course, one reason why many consumer electronics and other products sell for more money in New Zealand than elsewhere, as suppliers here need to take more risk than suppliers in jurisdictions where a strict 1-year warranty applies to such products.

So, the question would be: Would those people who's K30/K50/K70 cameras have failed have been happy to have spent an extra $150-300 to buy those products, if that extra cost would have given them better warranty service, for, say, 2-3 years warranty? As example: A KP in NZ will cost you a cool US$330 more than in the USA.

I would say that, in any country where 1 year is the usual warranty period, buyers would be good to remember "caveat emptor". There's a reason they paid less for that product. Of course, most of us (myself included) would like manufacturers to offer better warranties. And, as I have already stated - Ricoh could have done better. But, from Ricoh's point of view, they have satisfied the requirements of the warranty attached to the product.

I think the solenoid issue was particularly problematic because they didn't really have a fix. As far as I can tell, they simply replaced bad solenoids with the same solenoids that were prone to failure.

The fact that this was occuring outside of the warranty period combined with that fact made them unlikely to do anything about it. That said, many fixed their own cameras (better than Pentax would have) or got someone else to do it for them.

[Kunzite]

IIRC they started using a different component, at some point.

[Zygonyx]

He is the guy who can catch people's attention online, provoke reactions, collect market data and get money from selling the data to whatever company is willing to pay for it.

Ricoh Imaging should be carefull with such a chap

[reh321]

IIRC they started using a different component, at some point.

Analysis by @photogem; shows supplier may be machining them more carefully.

Solenoid in Pentax K-70 - PentaxForums.com

[reh321]

I think if Pentax would've known that this aperture block would happened, they would've looked for another manufacturer. It's definitely a bad problem I wouldn't want to have after the warranty period. It pushed me away from getting a ks2.

It pushed me towards stepping up to a KP {which has aperture control like K-3} instead of a K-70 {aperture control is improved version of K-30 mechanism}.

[photogem]

I think the solenoid issue was particularly problematic because they didn't really have a fix. As far as I can tell, they simply replaced bad solenoids with the same solenoids that were prone to failure.

They did not know and actually could not know what the problem was for quite a long time.

For quite a while it was said that the complete "diaphragm control unit" was replaced.

But because this is hours of work even for the very experienced I wouldn't be surprised if actually they just exchanged the body ...except the bottom plate with the serial. Thats how often it was handled with the even more expensive K5 during those sensor stain problems.
Changing the body was cheaper than replacing the sensor plus new alignement. So my guess is that it was similar with the K30/50.
I have undertaken replacement of the complete aperture block assembly once and will never ever do it, it is hell of work.


It was much later on that Ricoh found out (through us that is, i.e. here in this forum!) that there is a much easier solution, that it's only this tiny solenoid and replacing it is going to be done within lets say 30min if your workshop is ready for work.

The fact that this was occuring outside of the warranty period combined with that fact made them unlikely to do anything about it. That said, many fixed their own cameras (better than Pentax would have) or got someone else to do it for them.

In the European Union warranty is 2 years and often people got their bodies repaired if damage happended a few month outside of this warranty period. Later one could ask for a special price and still got it cheap, something like $150.


But it was just the same critical solenoid which was replaced... with the same one! So often the problem occured again.


Step by step they worked on modifying it but this started late around Dec. 2015 and as I have showed in my research , there was finally a step forward.


Nevertheless: The DIY solution with the old "made in Japan" solenoid is and was always the best solution but only available to DIYers because this solenoid wasn't produced anymore. Very few NOS (New Old Stock) solenoids were available for a short time in Japan but not anymore. So finding solenoids from DSLR bodies (*ist D up to K-r plus Samsung equivalents) or buying it on ebay is right now the only possibility.

I think if Pentax would've known that this aperture block would happened, they would've looked for another manufacturer. It's definitely a bad problem I wouldn't want to have after the warranty period. It pushed me away from getting a ks2.

There was no other manufacturer. Shinmei Japan produced it in SLR days and moved production to China. They sold solenoids to other manufactures and there are a few companies who produce similar solenoids but not the same (and they for sure are worse, I have tried and tested them).
The problem was that once machines were out of Japan, that was it!


The idea/patent of the solenoid was very good. When the manufacturer Shinmei moved production to China, the first green bodied made in China solenoids were tested for a longer time just in the flash circuitry of: K100D (year 2006!), K110D, K200D, K-m, K-x and K-r. None ever failed so they finally started to use it in for aperture control in the K30. This was in 2012, so up to 6 years without failure. It wasn't to be expected that the very same solenoid which worked alright in the flash ciruitry for 6 years would produce such difficulties in the aperture/diaphragm block.

And then fault-finding was difficult as I described already. It was at the end of the production of the K-50, K-S1 and K-S2 were already produced, first ones out on the market. But then they moved, there are hardly any K-S1 and K-S2 with this fault... they would have shown up by now.
It is pretty easy to check the date of manufacture using our Check Camera Shutter Cound @Manufacture Date link: All K-50, K-S1 and K-S2 built from Dec. 2015 onwards should be safe.

And I wouldn't worry about the K-70 at all.

[MikeyBugs95]

Edit: before going on, sorry, I didn't realize that this thread was months old. Was just browsing through my unread subscribed threads.

The K5, like the K-3, the KP and the K-1, use a different type of aperture control system to the K30 and K50 cameras. As result, the aperture problem only exists with the (cheaper range) products, namely (mostly) K30, K50 and a few K70 cameras.

While I agree that Ricoh could certainly have handled the K30 / K50 / K70 aperture solenoid issue better, it can hardly be described as a "nail in the coffin" of the brand. I doubt any K-3, KP or K-1 owners would decide not to buy a future Pentax purely on the basis of the failures of a (relatively) small selection of mainly K30 and K50 cameras. As has been documented, the aperture control issue in those cameras caught Ricoh offside in that their supplier changed the materials and manufacturing location of the aperture solenoid. Simply replacing the solenoid does not (permanently) fix the issue as the replacement solenoid is likely to fail after a similar amount of use.

I've owned the SFX, and still own several SFXn cameras. My wife has a Z10 and our daughter now uses my K5 for fashion photography. I'm very happy with my K-1ii and I'm sure it will continue to give good service for many years to come.
Modern DSLRs with their large reliance on electronics are unlikely to live quite as long as the old manual Pentax models, but that's no different for any camera manufacturer's products.

I don't see any "nail in the coffin" for Pentax. Ricoh has been a good owner of the Pentax brand and continue to innovate and (slowly) bring good products to market under the Pentax brand. This is not a time in the photography industry to be releasing lots of new models as the market is flat. The (current) obsession with mirrorless technology may benefit those manufacturers who have entered that market or may prove to be those manufacturers undoing. The mirrorless market is fickle and many DSLR shooters have no compulsion to go mirrorless while the technology results in a poor electronic viewfinder. And it's decidedly poor. The Sony A7iii is no pleasure to use and the Canon EOS R is only marginally better. A few minutes looking at the viewfinder of either results in severe eye strain for many users.

There is an interesting Ricoh patent for a combination OVF with and EVF style overlay. Ricoh may, with that, bring DSLR shooters the best of both worlds. Only time will tell if such a thing will come to market or not.
In the mean time, I'm very happy with every Pentax camera I have ever owned. The K-1ii is a superb camera which produces stellar images. That's quite enough for me for now.

I don't see the brand dying anytime soon, nor do I see any reason for it to die. And, in the exceedingly unlikely event of the brand ceasing to produce new products, nothing will prevent my use and enjoyment of all my Pentax gear for many years to come, quite likely until I fall off my bicycle and leave this little blue ball, orbiting a pretty insignificant star on the outskirts of a unremarkable galaxy in a relatively empty corner of the galaxy we call home.

Very well put. And very nice Carl Sagan reference too.

[MarkJerling]

Edit: before going on, sorry, I didn't realize that this thread was months old. Was just browsing through my unread subscribed threads.



Very well put. And very nice Carl Sagan reference too.

Thanks. But I fear I may have misquoted him from memory.

[totsmuyco]

They did not know and actually could not know what the problem was for quite a long time.

For quite a while it was said that the complete "diaphragm control unit" was replaced.

But because this is hours of work even for the very experienced I wouldn't be surprised if actually they just exchanged the body ...except the bottom plate with the serial. Thats how often it was handled with the even more expensive K5 during those sensor stain problems.
Changing the body was cheaper than replacing the sensor plus new alignement. So my guess is that it was similar with the K30/50.
I have undertaken replacement of the complete aperture block assembly once and will never ever do it, it is hell of work.


It was much later on that Ricoh found out (through us that is, i.e. here in this forum!) that there is a much easier solution, that it's only this tiny solenoid and replacing it is going to be done within lets say 30min if your workshop is ready for work.


In the European Union warranty is 2 years and often people got their bodies repaired if damage happended a few month outside of this warranty period. Later one could ask for a special price and still got it cheap, something like $150.


But it was just the same critical solenoid which was replaced... with the same one! So often the problem occured again.


Step by step they worked on modifying it but this started late around Dec. 2015 and as I have showed in my research , there was finally a step forward.


Nevertheless: The DIY solution with the old "made in Japan" solenoid is and was always the best solution but only available to DIYers because this solenoid wasn't produced anymore. Very few NOS (New Old Stock) solenoids were available for a short time in Japan but not anymore. So finding solenoids from DSLR bodies (*ist D up to K-r plus Samsung equivalents) or buying it on ebay is right now the only possibility.


There was no other manufacturer. Shinmei Japan produced it in SLR days and moved production to China. They sold solenoids to other manufactures and there are a few companies who produce similar solenoids but not the same (and they for sure are worse, I have tried and tested them).
The problem was that once machines were out of Japan, that was it!


The idea/patent of the solenoid was very good. When the manufacturer Shinmei moved production to China, the first green bodied made in China solenoids were tested for a longer time just in the flash circuitry of: K100D (year 2006!), K110D, K200D, K-m, K-x and K-r. None ever failed so they finally started to use it in for aperture control in the K30. This was in 2012, so up to 6 years without failure. It wasn't to be expected that the very same solenoid which worked alright in the flash ciruitry for 6 years would produce such difficulties in the aperture/diaphragm block.

And then fault-finding was difficult as I described already. It was at the end of the production of the K-50, K-S1 and K-S2 were already produced, first ones out on the market. But then they moved, there are hardly any K-S1 and K-S2 with this fault... they would have shown up by now.
It is pretty easy to check the date of manufacture using our Check Camera Shutter Cound @Manufacture Date link: All K-50, K-S1 and K-S2 built from Dec. 2015 onwards should be safe.

And I wouldn't worry about the K-70 at all.

As I have stated in the other thread and forgive me if I can't recall which one, that pushed me away from a KS2 deal. I've also read that some K70 have this problem and I wish they could come up with serial numbers of affected units. That's what they did to the k-3II. So when I purchased I made sure that I got one without the defect. So far so good. My K-3II is now 3 years old and still going strong.

[reh321]

As I have stated in the other thread and forgive me if I can't recall which one, that pushed me away from a KS2 deal. I've also read that some K70 have this problem and I wish they could come up with serial numbers of affected units. That's what they did to the k-3II. So when I purchased I made sure that I got one without the defect. So far so good. My K-3II is now 3 years old and still going strong.

I'm not sure that they can give serial numbers. As far as I understand from postings here, it just occasionally randomly happens to the K-S2 and K-70, randomly happens less often than it happened to the K-30, but happens randomly.

If someone has better information, I would love to hear it.

[totsmuyco]

I'm not sure that they can give serial numbers. As far as I understand from postings here, it just occasionally randomly happens to the K-S2 and K-70, randomly happens less often than it happened to the K-30, but happens randomly.

If someone has better information, I would love to hear it.

When it happens, it happens. I had a bad repair experience with the brick and mortar store here. As far as I would like to give the K70 a shot, it pushes me away by the thought of what I have to go through just to have my camera repaired. I don't like have an argument or a fight with them. I just want to enjoy my hobby. Since serial numbers can't be identified, I'll stay away from it.

[photogem]

I'm not sure that they can give serial numbers. As far as I understand from postings here, it just occasionally randomly happens to the K-S2 and K-70, randomly happens less often than it happened to the K-30, but happens randomly.

If someone has better information, I would love to hear it.

It is exactly as you say, the solenoid radnomly sometimes still gets stuck. It is strange to me because they should be able to measure holding-force and break-away force much easier and more precise then me. They could just buy a white made in Japan solenoid, measure it and compare it with the China-solenoid. And then ask the manufacturer to change the magnet accordingly. For us to change it, almost impossible.

And yet, compared to how often it failed in the K30/50 since K-S1 and K-S2 times things have changed, it fails far far less often, I'd say it is in the normal range of how often cameras fail in general no matter which manufacturer.

The problem is more the strong wind some produce, fearing for the worst. Of course I can understand it as well.
But I would just risk it (lets say it is a risk of 95:5) and if it goes wrong, within warranty have it repaired, outside warranty DIY.