[newmikey]

Allow me to look at this from a slightly different angle. I've been shooting Pentax cameras for well over 12 years (if you discount the 20+ years invested into the K1000 in my younger years). I buy a lens every now and then but over the years, as my collection grew, I've started divesting of stuff and sticking to a core set of glass I like to shoot with. I've gone through a number of bodies from the K110D to my current K-70 which I very much appreciate and enjoy - it is an absolutely wonderful piece of camera equipment.

Were Pentax to disappear overnight, would I suddenly find out my gear stopped working? Would I be forced to switch to a different system all at once? Rubbish of course! I'd happily continue to shoot and who knows I might, in due time, eventually migrate to another brand over the course of 5-10 years.

I'm not married to Pentax and Pentax isn't even a company, it is a brand name which is bought and sold between companies as if it were a commodity anyway. I tremendously enjoy my current gear and my current gear is branded with the Pentax name. That's all there is to it. I don't owe anything to any commercial company or one of its brands and vice versa, we both move with whatever developments throw at us and react accordingly.

With other words, a forum editor of a website owned by a major B2C company (Amazon) can say anything he likes, a printed photo mag (mags have pretty much gone out of business anyway) can do the same but why would anyone here feel threatened or insulted? Our cameras and lenses are pretty decent and deliver top-notch images and that IS what it's all about anyway.

[repaap]

Then why release the K-1 II? That is not a very compelling upgrade. I think the K-1 II indicates something different.

It is perfectly reasonable upgrade. They have released Mk 2 models from other flagships too. It also did have tuned AF and accelerator chip. Maybe small increase, but still good. And they can still sell some K-1 while working on new model and aps-c flagship.

I’d recall that Pentax has been even slower at some point, you can’t change everything at once, even if your competitors are doing it faster. And bigger and mirrorless. Ricoh said not so long a go that they will not go FF route. But market changed so they changed their mind. They have said that they have no interest for better video. That will not propably change. They have said that mirrorless is not coming(good try with K-01?). We will see if market has changed enough. But going head to head with Sony, would be suicide on that attemp. They would have to find personal solution, IMO to keep Pentax tradition alive. That is good that Ricoh respect that.

Make mirrorless +6000€ FF body and what then? Use lot of R&D money, to make something that only few will afford. Well they have already 645 line for that, but there is also history with that one. Make it mirrorless? Well you lose some you gainn some.

[Kunzite]

Ricoh said not so long a go that they will not go FF route

Actually, they didn't.

[bxf]

Amateur Photographer a well respected weekly photo news and review publication...

It is indeed a "photo news and review publication", but I'd say the "well respected" part is debatable. I'd encountered some of its issues here and there over the years, and I never felt that I should take it too seriously. That's just the way it came across.

Now, it is very irresponsible to be making statements about a company's demise when there is no real evidence to support such opinions. This could deter potential buyers, thus creating the potential for a self-fulfilling prophecy. Are there any provisions for a lawsuit when unjustifiable FUD is spread?

[Dan Rentea]

... But most of them remain pretty committed to the idea that they need to churn out new cameras at various levels, regardless of how much improvement they are really putting into them. Nikon in particular, seems to be struggling because of this.

Let's see the facts for a second, starting from the fact that despite entry level cameras from Canon and Nikon have a lot less features on paper than Pentax. This doesn't mean that the newer models don't have big improvements over the older ones.

1. 6D to 6D Mark II improvements (entry level camera):

- 11af points (one cross type) vs. 45 af points, all cross type and 27 sensitive to f8
- fixed screen vs. articulated screen
- contrast af in live view vs. dual pixel af
- no water sealing vs water sealing almost as good as the one from 5D Mark IV
- 20mp vs 26mp
- no touch screen vs. touch screen
- 4fps vs. 6fps

6D and D600/D610 represented the entry in the full frame world for enthusiastic photographers not willing to invest 3500$ or more on a more advanced full frame camera. Both cameras made history in terms of sales.

2. 5D Mark III vs 5D Mark IV

- 22mp vs. 30mp
- 61 af points 45 cross type vs. 61 af points (all cross type and sensitive to f8)
- no touch screen vs. touch screen
- contrast af in live view vs. dual pixel af
- dual pixel raw available in 5D Mark IV
- no wifi vs. wifi
- full hd video vs. 4k video
- 5D Mark IV is lighter and better water sealed than 5D Mark III
- dynamic range is better on 5D Mark IV due to the new sensor

As a owner of 6D and as a photographer who had a lot of opportunities to play with 5D Mark III, I found 5D Mark IV as a big improvement over 5D Mark III in every area (af, dynamic range, mettering system, etc.).

3. 7D vs. 7D Mark II

- 18mp vs. 20mp
- ISO 100-6400 vs ISO 100-16.000
- 8fps vs. 10fps
- 19 af points vs 61 af points (all cross type)
- timelapse recording and GPS in 7D Mark II
- one memory card slot vs. 2 memory card slots
- Interchangeable focus screens, anti flicker, built-in intervalometer and bulb timer available in 7D Mark II

Here the differences are so big that I really don't think that I can add a comment.

4. D7200 vs D500
- 24mp vs. 20mp
- 6fps vs. 10fps
- 51 af points, 15 cross-type vs. 153 af points, 99 cross-type
- Auto AF Fine-Tune, flicker detection on D500
- full hd vs. 4k
- Illuminated Buttons, articulating LCD, touchscreen LCD, built-in GPS, all available on D500

D500 and D5 are still considered the best action cameras today. This say a lot about improvements...

5. D810 vs. D850
- 36mp vs. 45mp
- Wireless radio flash control, silent photography mode in Live View, dedicated AF engine, touch af in Live View, focus peaking, focus stacking - all available in D850
- 5fps vs. 7 fps (9 with battery grip)
- 51 af points (15 cross-type) vs. 153 af points (99 cross-type)
- AF EV Range -2 vs. -4EV
- Auto AF Fine-Tune, flicker detection on D850
- full hd vs. 4k
- fixed screen vs. articulated screen

In real life shooting conditions D850 is impressive. It will show you after a few shots if you're ready to handle a camera like that or you have to start practice.

I listed just the main improvements over the older cameras. It is true that Canon and Nikon don't put all the good stuff in their entry level cameras in order to protect the sales of their professional cameras, but the improvements are quite big over the old cameras.

Ricoh chose to keep and improve what they thought/think it is important for their customers and they also chose to keep a low price and therefore they only add marginal improvements in their newer cameras in areas like: af, video, flash system. For a certain type of photographers, Ricoh is the best in terms of features and price. For others...not so much. What I admire at Pentax is that they put lots of features on entry level cameras so the transition from an entry level camera to a K3 or a K1 is easier.

If you go to workshops, photo tours, etc. and talk to the young generation of photographers you will be surprised regarding how much they know about D850, 5D Mark IV, Sony A7 III, D500, Fuji X-T2, Oly E-M1 Mark II. If you ask them about Pentax...if you find one who heard about it, in most cases he will say what he heard on the cancan articles written by DPReview, Tony Northrup, etc. This can't be good no matter how conservative Ricoh wants to be.

Times are changing and it seems that Canon and Nikon realised that features like eye af and electronic viewfinder are selling points to the young generation and they start to adapt to this new "world". And to be honest, despite the fact that I hate EVF from mirrorless cameras, the one from Sony a9 is quite nice and the eye af is exceptional on this camera. After shooting with a9 it's hard to go and buy a a7 III.

I don't think that DSLR's are going anywhere soon, but I tend to believe that a transition will come. How soon? I think that it depends on how much Sony, Olympus, Fuji (and soon Canon and Nikon) will innovate. And seeing the trends (focus stalking, pixel shift, eye af, etc. available already in other cameras from different brands), I realy think that marketing can be a big selling factor when comes to Pentax. You can't be conservative on all levels and rely on the existing user base because I already see lots of Pentaxians who start to shoot also with Fuji, Oly, Sony. And if you start buying new and modern lenses for the new system...sooner or later they will abandon one system.

Someone above said that he has 2-4 Pentax lenses that will suffice for his entire life. There is only one problem that doesn't care about the name of the brand. It's called GAS (Gear Aquisition Syndrome). The bad news is that I don't know if there is a cure for that. I keep GAS under control by renting new stuff and play with it. Despite the fact that I really love my camera and lenses, sometimes I do want a small Fuji with 2 primes and get over with all the gear I have.

[Kunzite]

Let's put things in perspective:
- 6D to 6D Mark II: about 5 years.
- 5D Mark III to Mark IV: about 4 years
- 7D to 7D Mark II: about 5 years
- D7200 D300s to D500: about 6 years
- D810 to D850: just 3 years

Pentax K-1 to K-1 II: 2 years. No, it's not a new model but a mild-life refresh.

[D1N0]

The K1 II must not be seen as a new camera. it is still a K-1 but one with an update. Pentax mk II camera's are never a large step forward. Just refreshes with some extra goodies. In this case the infamous NR chip (because of the id**** over at dpreview) and improved AF tracking.

[Kunzite]

The problem with the K-1 II is... Canon: people are thinking that, if Canon's Mark II, III etc. models are new products then Pentax' should be, too.

[Dan Rentea]

The K1 II must not be seen as a new camera. it is still a K-1 but one with an update. Pentax mk II camera's are never a large step forward. Just refreshes with some extra goodies. In this case the infamous NR chip (because of the id**** over at dpreview) and improved AF tracking.

I never considered K3 Mark II and K1 Mark II as new cameras. I realised that after I bought K-3 II based on specs instead of waiting and see if it is better than K3 in the things that I was interested in. It was the last time I bought something without testing it first. I just pointed that improvements which others don't see when comes to Canon and Nikon are there and there are quite big improvements. The champion of refreshing old cameras is Fuji in my opinion. Speaking of updates/refreshes, this is another factor for which I think that mirrorless will become more and more popular. The software allows manufacturers to add lots of updates to older cameras. For DSLR's on the other hand...K1 Mark II is an example, 5D Mark IV is another example when they updated the video. Both cameras needed to be sent to service for adding updates, updates that costs money.

[BigMackCam]

The problem with the K-1 II is... Canon: people are thinking that, if Canon's Mark II, III etc. models are new products then Pentax' should be, too.

I'm not sure that's the case... Ever since the K-5II, Pentax has been releasing updated versions with the "II" suffix... K-5II (and IIs), K-3II and now K-1II. People have had long enough to get used to that idea, I'd have thought.

[Rondec]

Let's see the facts for a second, starting from the fact that despite entry level cameras from Canon and Nikon have a lot less features on paper than Pentax. This doesn't mean that the newer models don't have big improvements over the older ones.

1. 6D to 6D Mark II improvements (entry level camera):

- 11af points (one cross type) vs. 45 af points, all cross type and 27 sensitive to f8
- fixed screen vs. articulated screen
- contrast af in live view vs. dual pixel af
- no water sealing vs water sealing almost as good as the one from 5D Mark IV
- 20mp vs 26mp
- no touch screen vs. touch screen
- 4fps vs. 6fps

6D and D600/D610 represented the entry in the full frame world for enthusiastic photographers not willing to invest 3500$ or more on a more advanced full frame camera. Both cameras made history in terms of sales.

2. 5D Mark III vs 5D Mark IV

- 22mp vs. 30mp
- 61 af points 45 cross type vs. 61 af points (all cross type and sensitive to f8)
- no touch screen vs. touch screen
- contrast af in live view vs. dual pixel af
- dual pixel raw available in 5D Mark IV
- no wifi vs. wifi
- full hd video vs. 4k video
- 5D Mark IV is lighter and better water sealed than 5D Mark III
- dynamic range is better on 5D Mark IV due to the new sensor

As a owner of 6D and as a photographer who had a lot of opportunities to play with 5D Mark III, I found 5D Mark IV as a big improvement over 5D Mark III in every area (af, dynamic range, mettering system, etc.).

3. 7D vs. 7D Mark II

- 18mp vs. 20mp
- ISO 100-6400 vs ISO 100-16.000
- 8fps vs. 10fps
- 19 af points vs 61 af points (all cross type)
- timelapse recording and GPS in 7D Mark II
- one memory card slot vs. 2 memory card slots
- Interchangeable focus screens, anti flicker, built-in intervalometer and bulb timer available in 7D Mark II

Here the differences are so big that I really don't think that I can add a comment.

4. D7200 vs D500
- 24mp vs. 20mp
- 6fps vs. 10fps
- 51 af points, 15 cross-type vs. 153 af points, 99 cross-type
- Auto AF Fine-Tune, flicker detection on D500
- full hd vs. 4k
- Illuminated Buttons, articulating LCD, touchscreen LCD, built-in GPS, all available on D500

D500 and D5 are still considered the best action cameras today. This say a lot about improvements...

5. D810 vs. D850
- 36mp vs. 45mp
- Wireless radio flash control, silent photography mode in Live View, dedicated AF engine, touch af in Live View, focus peaking, focus stacking - all available in D850
- 5fps vs. 7 fps (9 with battery grip)
- 51 af points (15 cross-type) vs. 153 af points (99 cross-type)
- AF EV Range -2 vs. -4EV
- Auto AF Fine-Tune, flicker detection on D850
- full hd vs. 4k
- fixed screen vs. articulated screen

In real life shooting conditions D850 is impressive. It will show you after a few shots if you're ready to handle a camera like that or you have to start practice.

I listed just the main improvements over the older cameras. It is true that Canon and Nikon don't put all the good stuff in their entry level cameras in order to protect the sales of their professional cameras, but the improvements are quite big over the old cameras.

Ricoh chose to keep and improve what they thought/think it is important for their customers and they also chose to keep a low price and therefore they only add marginal improvements in their newer cameras in areas like: af, video, flash system. For a certain type of photographers, Ricoh is the best in terms of features and price. For others...not so much. What I admire at Pentax is that they put lots of features on entry level cameras so the transition from an entry level camera to a K3 or a K1 is easier.

If you go to workshops, photo tours, etc. and talk to the young generation of photographers you will be surprised regarding how much they know about D850, 5D Mark IV, Sony A7 III, D500, Fuji X-T2, Oly E-M1 Mark II. If you ask them about Pentax...if you find one who heard about it, in most cases he will say what he heard on the cancan articles written by DPReview, Tony Northrup, etc. This can't be good no matter how conservative Ricoh wants to be.

Times are changing and it seems that Canon and Nikon realised that features like eye af and electronic viewfinder are selling points to the young generation and they start to adapt to this new "world". And to be honest, despite the fact that I hate EVF from mirrorless cameras, the one from Sony a9 is quite nice and the eye af is exceptional on this camera. After shooting with a9 it's hard to go and buy a a7 III.

I don't think that DSLR's are going anywhere soon, but I tend to believe that a transition will come. How soon? I think that it depends on how much Sony, Olympus, Fuji (and soon Canon and Nikon) will innovate. And seeing the trends (focus stalking, pixel shift, eye af, etc. available already in other cameras from different brands), I realy think that marketing can be a big selling factor when comes to Pentax. You can't be conservative on all levels and rely on the existing user base because I already see lots of Pentaxians who start to shoot also with Fuji, Oly, Sony. And if you start buying new and modern lenses for the new system...sooner or later they will abandon one system.

Someone above said that he has 2-4 Pentax lenses that will suffice for his entire life. There is only one problem that doesn't care about the name of the brand. It's called GAS (Gear Aquisition Syndrome). The bad news is that I don't know if there is a cure for that. I keep GAS under control by renting new stuff and play with it. Despite the fact that I really love my camera and lenses, sometimes I do want a small Fuji with 2 primes and get over with all the gear I have.

Nice list.

I was thinking more of the lower end cameras like the T5i to T6i or D5300 to D5500 where there is a scheduled being kept, even if there isn't a whole lot new coming out.

Clearly if you wait five years between cameras you should see some improvement from one to the other.

The K-1 II is a midcycle tweak. There won't be another Pentax full frame for over a year and this offers a refresh on an otherwise very nice camera. But it says a lot, doesn't it, that Pentax is upgrading current K-1s to the same capability and that both cameras are widely available for purchase new. At least for the present, Pentax doesn't see the K-1 II as a replacement for the K-1 and is continuing to offer both.

[Dan Rentea]

Nice list.

I was thinking more of the lower end cameras like the T5i to T6i or D5300 to D5500 where there is a scheduled being kept, even if there isn't a whole lot new coming out.

Clearly if you wait five years between cameras you should see some improvement from one to the other.

The K-1 II is a midcycle tweak. There won't be another Pentax full frame for over a year and this offers a refresh on an otherwise very nice camera. But it says a lot, doesn't it, that Pentax is upgrading current K-1s to the same capability and that both cameras are widely available for purchase new. At least for the present, Pentax doesn't see the K-1 II as a replacement for the K-1 and is continuing to offer both.

6D is still available in stores. 5D Mark III, D850, also are available. I think here Sony is the champion with the a7 and a6000 still available in stores.

D5300, T6i, etc. are refreshments like K3 to K3 II, K1 to K1 II.

[Pål Jensen]

I'm not married to Pentax and Pentax isn't even a company, it is a brand name which is bought and sold between companies as if it were a commodity anyway. I tremendously enjoy my current gear and my current gear is branded with the Pentax name. That's all there is to it. .

Pentax is far more than just a brand name. Pentax camera division have just changed owners over the last decade. It is like saying Volvo is just a brand name because they now have chinese owners....

[ogl]

Let's put things in perspective:
- 6D to 6D Mark II: about 5 years.
- 5D Mark III to Mark IV: about 4 years
- 7D to 7D Mark II: about 5 years
- D7200 D300s to D500: about 6 years
- D810 to D850: just 3 years

Pentax K-1 to K-1 II: 2 years. No, it's not a new model but a mild-life refresh.

Yes...But...2 year is enough time to add not only acceleration unit. The acceleration unit is 2 years old. Even K-70 has such thing.

[Kunzite]

It's "enough time" if you're really working on it, postponing other products. But, for understandably reasons, replacing the K-1 is not their highest priority.