[Alex645]

Is pixe dust Shinto attribute... if so, where do I sign up?

You don't have to be Shinto to believe in pixies, although probably the highest percentage of Pentaxians in Japan are Shinto.
My grandfather was Shinto, but my knowledge of most religions is not deep.

Of those that associate to a faith in Japan, over half are Shinto, maybe 40% Buddhist, 1% Christian, etc.

Sign up? It's automatic enrollment when you buy a limited prime.

[RGlasel]

I am convinced that it wouldn't cost a bunch to have a real social media presence, reboot Pentax Photo Gallery into something worthwhile, run some contests, and have a real You Tube channel. Put out interesting, worthwhile stuff and you sell your cameras in the process.

There is definitely nothing wrong with doing a better job with the marketing stuff that doesn't cost much, but to go from, say 2% market share to 20% market share in a shrinking market is impossible through marketing, no matter how much is spent. The internet has totally fragmented the marketing of consumer goods; no matter where you throw your marketing budget, it ends up in the gutter. The thing about the Internet is that consumers aren't passive consumers of information, they actively seek out marketing messages, based on their individual tastes and prejudices and if a buyer isn't already interested in what you have to sell, you can't reach him/her. After all, the sheer volume of messages overwhelms everyone, so no matter how loud you scream, you can't force consumers to listen to you.

The key to marketing in today's chaos is to produce interesting, worthwhile products, not messages. No one buys a message, there are so many of them, they are worthless. You wouldn't want to be an advertising executive these days, it's a non-stop carousel of hiding evidence that you don't have a clue what to do.

[redcat]

Another "Pentax is Doomed" rumor, but i guess Pentax will stay small but steady, wait for a technology to be widely accepted and cheap enough before deploying it on their equipment (Full Frame after 15 years, Mirrorless after ? year )

[mee]

Another "Pentax is Doomed" rumor, but i guess Pentax will stay small but steady, wait for a technology to be widely accepted and cheap enough before deploying it on their equipment (Full Frame after 15 years, Mirrorless after ? year )

I don't think we'll see Pentax go mirrorless unless they get to a point in time where it becomes too difficult to source parts to stay on the DSLR wagon.

Otherwise it seems, at least to me, that Ricoh values Pentax for the long standing heritage of SLR systems it has experienced.


And really, if the market leans heavily to mirrorless in the future, it could actually become a plus for Pentax if they are the last remaining DSLR manufacturer. It is very difficult to predict the future though.... 50 years ago people thought we'd have flying cars, sky homes, and world peace. Instead, we got pocket computers we use to argue non-peacefully over pointless topics in global communities (web forums) and look at stupid, comedic videos of cats.

[reh321]

I don't think we'll see Pentax go mirrorless unless they get to a point in time where it becomes too difficult to source parts to stay on the DSLR wagon.

Otherwise it seems, at least to me, that Ricoh values Pentax for the long standing heritage of SLR systems it has experienced.

I basically agree with you here. I believe a K-01 followup would make sense, but Pentax learned the wrong lesson from the K-01; instead of learning "MILC without EVF is futile", they learned "MILC not for us" ... and, of course, identity of Pentax is tied up in the pentaprism,

And really, if the market leans heavily to mirrorless in the future, it could actually become a plus for Pentax if they are the last remaining DSLR manufacturer. It is very difficult to predict the future though.... 50 years ago people thought we'd have flying cars, sky homes, and world peace. Instead, we got pocket computers we use to argue non-peacefully over pointless topics in global communities (web forums) and look at stupid, comedic videos of cats.

and stupid, comedic videos of dogs.

[mee]

I basically agree with you here. I believe a K-01 followup would make sense, but Pentax learned the wrong lesson from the K-01; instead of learning "MILC without EVF is futile", they learned "MILC not for us" ... and, of course, identity of Pentax is tied up in the pentaprism,

I agree completely. The K-01 was a 'failure' not because it lacked an optical viewfinder but because it lacked a viewfinder at all! Had it been given a competitive EVF (for the time), I think they would have sold a lot better. I would have even bought one to play with (for manual focus old timey lenses).

[RonHendriks1966]

You could be right, but it is also quite possible that Ricoh could spend unlimited resources to promote the Pentax brand in in the U.S., Romania, and virtually every country that isn't Japan, without making a worthwhile difference (moving the needle in sales-speak).

It's probably cheaper and more effective to slap Ricoh on the camera's, because Ricoh already advertises for the Ricoh Brand.

[Alex645]

It's probably cheaper and more effective to slap Ricoh on the camera's, because Ricoh already advertises for the Ricoh Brand.

Sorry, I don't agree. Ricoh was founded on manufacture of sensitized paper and then expanded into a photocopy, printing, and projection corporation. Although they've had a dozen film SLRs and a whole range of Rikenon lenses to go with them, their reputation as a photography company is no where close to the Pentax legacy. I also believe they are losing business by using the Ricoh name on their current five non-SLR digital cameras.

There were pros, government, and organizations that used Pentax photographic systems. I never met a pro, or school, or agency that used Ricoh. I don't have a crystal ball, but if you replaced the PENTAX moniker with Ricoh and Rikenon, Ricoh would lose more sales than gain. At least that's my opinion.

[Dan Rentea]

I don't understand why Pentax's decision to focus on certain markets and not on others is to be perceived as problematic. I'm pretty sure they have decided not to focus on the United States or Romania. Maybe it is because they think the return on investment wouldn't be worth it. Maybe they just don't understand those markets. That doesn't mean that they don't know what they are doing...

If you ask me, I think that one of the reasons for the situation in Romania has to do with the lack of implication of the official Pentax dealer. The owner of the shop has other businesses that keeps him busy and for him Pentax was/is just a passion that it seems to be less and less "alive". I remember that F64 (the shop that I told you about being the largest photo store in SE Europe) was at some point interested in Pentax. Given the fact that:
- they have lots of collaborations with known photographers and they organise seminars like B&H that are transmited online, live
- they have a big showroom in the center of the town on 2 levels
- they have a nice renting option of gear
- they have a strong presence in online (a large Facebook group, Youtube channel, dedicated blog, etc.)
- they have strong collaboration with banks if you want to buy products via shopping cards
- etc.

something better than what's going in right now could have happen if they had the possibility to take Pentax under their wing. I haven't seen a brand that F64 imported directly from the manufacturer that died under their "protection". But, it seems like the collaboration with Pentax dealer is similar with the collaboration of Pentax dealer with the other photo store that ceased to sell Pentax. F64 keeps selling Pentax, but they don't do anything to promote it as long as the Pentax dealer doesn't help them with nothing. Having Pentax in their shelves is more like a portfolio thing rather than a way of making money.

Ok, I understand that the profit may be small due to already cheap prices of Pentax gear compared to others and I understand that Pentax can't offer discounts and vouchers and cash back campains all day long, but they (the Pentax dealer) don't even try to do something for the consumers.

- they don't have a Facebook page where they can share articles of ambassadors, user reviews, etc.
- they don't have a blog where Pentaxians can write about their experience with Pentax gear
- they don't update their website (the price of K3 is the same as the price of K-3 II which is almost the same as it was at the launch, they have just one news in their news page, they don't even bother to publish a feedback on their Customer Reviews page).
- they don't bother to colaborate with romanian banks in order to offer us the possibility to buy gear with shopping cards (and pay the products in 3-5-7-10 monthly rates); it's so common this method of payment here, in Romania and the commissions payd to banks are insignifficant these days

And another thing. The facebook page of F64 store (the big photo store that I mentioned above) is administered by 4-6 photographers and one employee of F64 who takes the final decisions if there are situations that require his presence. And those photographers are not payed and they don't have a special treatment. They are volunteers. I know this because I was one of the moderators and I renounced due to the lack of time (I'm an admin in another big Facebook page of photographers with 20.000 members and I have a business or two to manage also).

So, even if Ricoh is not interested in investing in Romanian market being to small for them to make it count, there are lots of things that can be done locally to be seen as a brand without spending money. First and most important is to have a dealer interested in selling and promoting the brand. We don't have this luxury, unfortunately. So, if I have something to reproach to Ricoh, is the way of selecting their dealers. They did a lousy job in Romania in this regard.

[ffking]

I suppose that the truth might well be that the first rule of any manufacturing business is to sell what you produce at a profit. If Ricoh are doing that already, and can realistically project that into the future, then, given the more long term nature of Japanese shareholder investment, expansion is to some extent optional. The difficult decision for any business is when demand noticeably outstrips production - failure to supply can cause reputational damage but investment in new plant is risky. Perhaps Ricoh don't want to overstimulate demand that they can't meet. The danger is fading into irrelevance in the meantime - but if they stay strong in Japan, they probably don't worry about that. We await the famous 'plan' with interest, but slow systematic ground-up rebuilding would be my guess.

[Rondec]

I suppose that the truth might well be that the first rule of any manufacturing business is to sell what you produce at a profit. If Ricoh are doing that already, and can realistically project that into the future, then, given the more long term nature of Japanese shareholder investment, expansion is to some extent optional. The difficult decision for any business is when demand noticeably outstrips production - failure to supply can cause reputational damage but investment in new plant is risky. Perhaps Ricoh don't want to overstimulate demand that they can't meet. The danger is fading into irrelevance in the meantime - but if they stay strong in Japan, they probably don't worry about that. We await the famous 'plan' with interest, but slow systematic ground-up rebuilding would be my guess.

A big hit camera that required a huge increase in manufacturing would be a mixed blessing. Certainly if it was something they could build on over time, it would be worthwhile, but in general it is probably better to build slowly. Companies that expand operations too quickly can end up going from boom to bust in a very short time.

[BigMackCam]

It's probably cheaper and more effective to slap Ricoh on the camera's, because Ricoh already advertises for the Ricoh Brand.

With respect, I think that would be a big mistake. There's still a certain cachet to the "Pentax" brand, especially among those who used (or at least remember) Pentax film cameras. Aside from the mount, there's very little similarity between those old film cameras and the newer digital bodies, but many people see the new equipment as evolution of a reputable and well-established brand with an enviable history. The "Pentax" name is a marketing tool in its own right.

[Kunzite]

If you ask me[...]

The "owner of the shop" (actually, of the small company representing Pentax in Romania - a very important difference) probably killed your cat, or something.

First thing first: Pentax' situation in Romania is... far from rosy, but also not the worst. They're reasonably stocked with gear, and seems content with this level of support. They're doing some promotion, they have some marketing budget but nothing serious - and they don't take advantage of social media, they don't AFAIK have ambassadors. They're collaborating with external service units rather than having their own. Pentax consumer cameras are more of a hobby, they're not likely to spend tons of money into it but also not likely to give up.
It's mostly a place where you can buy Pentax equipment. Obviously, I want more. Did I say I want more? Right... more, not less. That's yet another very important difference.

So, F64. What you're trying to say is that a camera store which doesn't promote Pentax in any way, not even having a PENTAX logo anywhere except on the few cameras and lenses hidden on a small shelf, would do wonderful things for the brand, much more than the current distributor which does promote Pentax in some - not quite effective - ways. I don't buy it. I don't believe for a moment that they'll improve from nothing to everything.
F64 wouldn't address my concerns - as a Pentax user - which are not about marketing. They wouldn't make a top-notch service unit just for Pentax; they would still use a third-party (by the way, do they have a Sigma service unit? I've heard that they don't, but better to check that). They most likely wouldn't offer Pentax for rental, because they're not doing it now and there's nothing to stop them. They most likely wouldn't reduce shelf space from the better selling brands to make room for Pentax.
And they most likely would continue to promote Canon and Nikon and Sony more because that's where the money are. F64 are getting their money from other brands - and just spare change from Pentax. That, IMHO, would be completely unacceptable for a Pentax distributor.
They're also a camera store, 'a' as in one. Their business model is to compete with other camera stores, not to distribute through them.
Besides, F64 isn't doing great these days. They overexerted themselves by becoming the largest camera store in the Eastern Europe, unable to predict the market decline. For Pete's sake, they can't even afford to pay the people administering their facebook page

Part of my skepticism is that yes, I've seen much worse. I remember Nikon before Skin, you couldn't even buy except through third-party/grey market stores. I remember the Kodak Unirii shop, with a single Nikon camera and a lens, sitting on a shelf. I can't help but mentally replace Kodak with F64, and that single Nikon with an old, unsold K-5II kit...

Much better than a camera store would be a multi-brand company like Skin Media (representing Nikon) or MGT Educational (representing Olympus). Companies that already have service units; companies with capital to spare.
However, Skin Media lost their steam - they closed all but one of their Yellow Stores, for example, and their service is going downhill. They're in no position, and not willing to invest money into Pentax.
If only such a company took over, when the market was still growing! But then, you'd need a growing Pentax as well, not the Hoya's diminished version. Not the 2011 without a single Pentax K product; not the canceled products; not the neglecting of the lens line. If and only if - we might've had a strong Pentax.

But, it makes no sense to dwell on it, on "who else would be better than the current distributor" - because, bar from a change actually happening, what is the point? Call me when a strong company willing to make Pentax great again takes over, and I'll celebrate.

[Mistral75]

(...) make Pentax great again (...)

Ahem!...

[Dan Rentea]

The "owner of the shop" (actually, of the small company representing Pentax in Romania - a very important difference) probably killed your cat, or something.

First thing first: Pentax' situation in Romania is... far from rosy, but also not the worst. They're reasonably stocked with gear, and seems content with this level of support. They're doing some promotion, they have some marketing budget but nothing serious - and they don't take advantage of social media, they don't AFAIK have ambassadors. They're collaborating with external service units rather than having their own. Pentax consumer cameras are more of a hobby, they're not likely to spend tons of money into it but also not likely to give up.
It's mostly a place where you can buy Pentax equipment. Obviously, I want more. Did I say I want more? Right... more, not less. That's yet another very important difference.

So, F64. What you're trying to say is that a camera store which doesn't promote Pentax in any way, not even having a PENTAX logo anywhere except on the few cameras and lenses hidden on a small shelf, would do wonderful things for the brand, much more than the current distributor which does promote Pentax in some - not quite effective - ways. I don't buy it. I don't believe for a moment that they'll improve from nothing to everything.
F64 wouldn't address my concerns - as a Pentax user - which are not about marketing. They wouldn't make a top-notch service unit just for Pentax; they would still use a third-party (by the way, do they have a Sigma service unit? I've heard that they don't, but better to check that). They most likely wouldn't offer Pentax for rental, because they're not doing it now and there's nothing to stop them. They most likely wouldn't reduce shelf space from the better selling brands to make room for Pentax.
And they most likely would continue to promote Canon and Nikon and Sony more because that's where the money are. F64 are getting their money from other brands - and just spare change from Pentax. That, IMHO, would be completely unacceptable for a Pentax distributor.
They're also a camera store, 'a' as in one. Their business model is to compete with other camera stores, not to distribute through them.
Besides, F64 isn't doing great these days. They overexerted themselves by becoming the largest camera store in the Eastern Europe, unable to predict the market decline. For Pete's sake, they can't even afford to pay the people administering their facebook page

Part of my skepticism is that yes, I've seen much worse. I remember Nikon before Skin, you couldn't even buy except through third-party/grey market stores. I remember the Kodak Unirii shop, with a single Nikon camera and a lens, sitting on a shelf. I can't help but mentally replace Kodak with F64, and that single Nikon with an old, unsold K-5II kit...

Much better than a camera store would be a multi-brand company like Skin Media (representing Nikon) or MGT Educational (representing Olympus). Companies that already have service units; companies with capital to spare.
However, Skin Media lost their steam - they closed all but one of their Yellow Stores, for example, and their service is going downhill. They're in no position, and not willing to invest money into Pentax.
If only such a company took over, when the market was still growing! But then, you'd need a growing Pentax as well, not the Hoya's diminished version. Not the 2011 without a single Pentax K product; not the canceled products; not the neglecting of the lens line. If and only if - we might've had a strong Pentax.

But, it makes no sense to dwell on it, on "who else would be better than the current distributor" - because, bar from a change actually happening, what is the point? Call me when a strong company willing to make Pentax great again takes over, and I'll celebrate.

Ok, we have 2 romanian photo stores that are complaining about the relationship with Pentax dealer and because of that one of them ceased to sell Pentax and you're telling me regarding F64 that if they take over the Pentax representative:
- "They most likely wouldn't offer Pentax for rental"
- "they most likely would continue to promote Canon and Nikon and Sony"
- "They wouldn't make a top-notch service unit just for Pentax"
- etc.

How do you know all this? Are you a psychic? If you read my last comment you will see that I said that given the fact that F64 has a dedicated blog, a dedicated Youtube channel, a collaboration with known photographers and so on, good things could happen if they take over the Pentax representative, the reasons being the dedicated Youtube channel, the collaboration with known photographers and bloggers and so on. You instead seem certain that nothing good can happen given the fact that you use words like "they wouldn't make...". You always prefer the excuses and negative thoughts instead of focusing on opportunities.

At this point, with a Pentax dealer as rigid as it is, why would F64 do anything? They already do much more than I would expect from them by keeping Pentax products on the shelves and on their website. With the amount of people visiting their website daily, some of them at least are able to discover that Pentax still makes cameras. Being a direct importer where you have the freedom to take actions in order to generate sales is a completly different thing than being a distributor for someone else who doesn't care about anything. I haven't spoke with the owner of the shop that ceased to sell Pentax for a while, but if he will join this forum and start wrtiting here about the relationship with our Pentax dealer (and he has emails to back up his comments)... maybe you will realise how much "effort" is doing our Pentax dealer to sell Pentax and how much help they offer to their partners (distributors).

For the sake of this discussion, would you invest money or would you support a business as long as your partner (our official Pentax distributor in this particular case) instead of helping you is doing nothing or worse, is doing the opposite? I know that I will take my money and run as fast as I can to find other partners that want to make money. One shop already did that. F64 also reduced to minimum the stocks of Pentax products and also the space for Pentax products in their store and it's more than understandable why they did it.