[BigMackCam]

I wonder if we've accepted brand bashers in this brand specific forum, that is a haven for us owners in an otherwise Pentax uncaring or hostile Internet, for too long.

I assure you we haven't accepted brand bashers - at least, not from a moderating perspective. As I know you understand, it's much trickier than many folks realise to manage such a wide range of contributors and their views here. The issue isn't what those views are; we welcome anyone, whether they're dyed-in-the-wool Pentax evangelists or disappointed never-coming-back-to-Pentax haters. What we care deeply about is that folks present and discuss their views (be they pro or against Pentax for whatever reason) constructively and in a non-inflammatory manner, but most of all with respect to their fellow forum members and the brand-specific nature of these forums. Those who don't will, sooner or later, find themselves with a temporary or permanent ban

[MarkJerling]

He's been banned, Reh, maybe progressing in a now deleted post from mirrorless trolling to profanity, I don't actually know, just guessing.

But can I just take this moment to say, I wonder if we've accepted brand bashers in this brand specific forum, that is a haven for us owners in an otherwise Pentax uncaring or hostile Internet, for too long.

In the Facebook group (13,000 members, high standard of photography), they won't put up with it, nor even pictures taken with other brands. From their rules:

"Pentaxians are typically a friendly bunch and we intend to keep that tradition alive and well here ... Any images taken with Pentax or Ricoh equipment (cameras, lenses) are acceptable as long as they conform to Facebook's community standards … Promotion of other brands over Pentax will not be tolerated. We do not care how great your A7rIII is. Its a wonderful camera surely, we get it. This doesn't mean we cannot discuss the merits of other systems, but you switched systems? Great? How about switching to another group then? Thanks. Otherwise feel free to lurk to your heart's content."

We don't generally discuss moderation actions but I will confirm that the user in question's posting privileges has temporarily been revoked. As such, he may wish to reply when the temporary ban lapses.

[Rondec]

He's been banned, Reh, maybe progressing in a now deleted post from mirrorless trolling to profanity, I don't actually know, just guessing.

But can I just take this moment to say, I wonder if we've accepted brand bashers in this brand specific forum, that is a haven for us owners in an otherwise Pentax uncaring or hostile Internet, for too long?

In the Facebook group (13,000 members, high standard of photography), they won't put up with it, nor even pictures taken with other brands. From their rules:

"Pentaxians are typically a friendly bunch and we intend to keep that tradition alive and well here ... Any images taken with Pentax or Ricoh equipment (cameras, lenses) are acceptable as long as they conform to Facebook's community standards … Promotion of other brands over Pentax will not be tolerated. We do not care how great your A7rIII is. Its a wonderful camera surely, we get it. This doesn't mean we cannot discuss the merits of other systems, but you switched systems? Great? How about switching to another group then? Thanks. Otherwise feel free to lurk to your heart's content."

Many of the folks on here use more than one system. We don't need to have constant adulation of Pentax gear, but certainly running it down constantly isn't enjoyable for those of us still shooting with Pentax cameras.

I have found the mirrorless missionaries to be the most irritating. Pentax has, to this point, made it clear that they are sticking with SLR design. Constantly bringing up mirrorless camera design isn't helpful and tends to overvalue how much things would change if Pentax ever did go with a mirrorless design. Yes, the A9 has awesome tracking auto focus, but many of Sony's cameras in the past didn't have that at all and if Pentax is starting at square one with mirrorless design, odds are as good that they would have a mirrorless camera that focuses like the A7 as the A9.

[Larrymc]

He's been banned, Reh, maybe progressing in a now deleted post from mirrorless trolling to profanity, I don't actually know, just guessing.

But can I just take this moment to say, I wonder if we've accepted brand bashers in this brand specific forum, that is a haven for us owners in an otherwise Pentax uncaring or hostile Internet, for too long?

In the Facebook group (13,000 members, high standard of photography), they won't put up with it, nor even pictures taken with other brands. From their rules:

"Pentaxians are typically a friendly bunch and we intend to keep that tradition alive and well here ... Any images taken with Pentax or Ricoh equipment (cameras, lenses) are acceptable as long as they conform to Facebook's community standards … Promotion of other brands over Pentax will not be tolerated. We do not care how great your A7rIII is. Its a wonderful camera surely, we get it. This doesn't mean we cannot discuss the merits of other systems, but you switched systems? Great? How about switching to another group then? Thanks. Otherwise feel free to lurk to your heart's content."

I like their philosophy! Very simple to understand and new or prospective members know upfront what is expected of them. Unfortunately I'm not fond of Facebook at all or I would check the group out.

[reh321]

I like their philosophy! Very simple to understand and new or prospective members know upfront what is expected of them. Unfortunately I'm not fond of Facebook at all or I would check the group out.

After research performed by our older daughter {an academic librarian} for a presentation on privacy, I choose to strenuously avoid FB, regardless of how businesses may bribe me to "Like" them there.

Back to our regular programming.

[clackers]

I like their philosophy! Very simple to understand and new or prospective members know upfront what is expected of them. Unfortunately I'm not fond of Facebook at all or I would check the group out.

Yeah, I'm not referring to social media, even though a photographer wanting to engage with the real world and customers has to use more of FB, Twitter and so on these days, not less. Someone like LeRolls has said that Instagram (owned by Facebook) is how he gets clients. This is understandable. You post here, the pics are only going to be seen by a lot of old men like us.

What I'm looking at is that group's rules and culture, which is very supportive of the secure environment its members really want.

Here, a troll who remains civil is tolerated. A past owner who was unhappy with their pictures and thought that becoming a Fuji zealot will somehow make them become a better photographer, for example, can go on and on justifying their choice. In one case this year, a PF member basically called us all losers for still shooting Pentax, but in the Marketplace was very cute in trying to get us to buy their gear to fund this change. Or a Canikon owner can sign up on the forum and engage in a whispering campaign, just for their own amusement.

This is a bit bizarre. At a Mustang Club, you wouldn't tolerate a stranger sitting up the back quietly chiming in with various points for Camaros week after week. That's not why you spend time and money to be part of a group. And there are people like me who spend time and money to be part of this forum.

In my experience, neither of those two kinds of people contribute to anywhere but the treacherous News and Rumours threads. They're not displaying a love of photography by submitting their own pictures and admiring those of others. They don't want to make themselves useful by helping members (especially beginners) troubleshoot. They don't take part in challenges or reach across to other members in the social threads. They don't donate to become Supporters. They are gone anyway after some time when they get bored, but their destructive posts remain in Google searches for the number one Pentax website on the planet.

IMHO, their presence acts as a barrier for a very large number of knowledgeable, skilled and passionate Pentaxians on the Facebook group who won't come here - including Pentax Ambassadors. Some are in fact registered PF members, but they don't post. We should want them all to be here, and involved. They are all our brothers.

I think that FB group has a better vibe and less hostile discussion outbreaks because it's driven by what their members want - catering for current Pentax owners.

I certainly don't think it's because it's better run.

I think the owner/s and moderators of PF do a much better and much more difficult job, they've got some serious skilz, both technical and peoplewise. But embracing or even tolerating freedom of speech by non-Pentaxians has to make their day harder. By the 80:20 rule, that type of person is in the twenty, to be sure.

[lytrytyr]

how much things would change if Pentax ever did go with a mirrorless design.

No need for the subjunctives here -- Pentax has already "been and gone"
with five different mirrorless (ILC) designs in three different sensor formats.

[abhaskare]

Pentax has chosen to stay with DSLR design and they have the right to do so; however for around $2.5K with kit lenses, I see a lot of reasons to go for Z6 rather than the K1ii. If Pentax can come up with a K1 that is much lighter .. close to 600gms, it will be interesting.
On that note, not sure why the size/weight for K1 went up so much. After all, any of the pentax apsc bodies could house a FF sensor.

[MarkJerling]

Pentax has chosen to stay with DSLR design and they have the right to do so; however for around $2.5K with kit lenses, I see a lot of reasons to go for Z6 rather than the K1ii. If Pentax can come up with a K1 that is much lighter .. close to 600gms, it will be interesting.
On that note, not sure why the size/weight for K1 went up so much. After all, any of the pentax apsc bodies could house a FF sensor.

This discussion comes up fairly regularly. It's not possible to fit a full-frame sensor complete with SR system into an APS-C body. It won't fit. The K-1 is one of the smallest DSLR's on the market. I'm not aware of any FF DSLR from any other manufacturer that is smaller.The K-1 is pretty heavy though, so it may be possible by, using other materials, the camera could be made lighter. But, stainless steel and magnesium alloy would need to be substituted with something else. I'm not sure I'd want that.

[clackers]

; however for around $2.5K with kit lenses, I see a lot of reasons to go for Z6 rather than the K1ii.

?

It's 24Mp, Abhaskare, if you have a K-70 it already does that, for a lot less dough!

[ZombieArmy]

But, stainless steel and magnesium alloy would need to be substituted with something else. I'm not sure I'd want that.

There are alternatives but it'd increase the price dramatically.

[MarkJerling]

Pentax has chosen to stay with DSLR design and they have the right to do so; however for around $2.5K with kit lenses, I see a lot of reasons to go for Z6 rather than the K1ii. If Pentax can come up with a K1 that is much lighter .. close to 600gms, it will be interesting.
On that note, not sure why the size/weight for K1 went up so much. After all, any of the pentax apsc bodies could house a FF sensor.

You've posted very nearly the same sentiment in this thread: K-1 II, declared best in class - Page 6 - PentaxForums.com

Quoted here:

With the Nikon Z6 and kit lens around $2.5K - the same price as K1ii with kit lens, does K1 still retain as the best?

I'd suggest you consider your options.

[cfraz]

On that note, not sure why the size/weight for K1 went up so much. After all, any of the pentax apsc bodies could house a FF sensor.

This discussion comes up fairly regularly. It's not possible to fit a full-frame sensor complete with SR system into an APS-C body. It won't fit. The K-1 is one of the smallest DSLR's on the market. I'm not aware of any FF DSLR from any other manufacturer that is smaller.The K-1 is pretty heavy though, so it may be possible by, using other materials, the camera could be made lighter. But, stainless steel and magnesium alloy would need to be substituted with something else. I'm not sure I'd want that.

To add to Mark's comments: A FF pentaprism is much larger and heavier than it's APSC cousin. Also, the FF mirror box needs to be able to swing a mirror that's about 50% wider.

[Alex645]

The K-1 is one of the smallest DSLR's on the market. I'm not aware of any FF DSLR from any other manufacturer that is smaller.

I concur with Mark that the K-1 is the smallest DSLR FF body currently sold in terms of height and width. It's a bit thicker, but overall, it is the smallest.

Pentax DSLRs are going to be heavier by design with pentaprisms, SR mechanisms, above average weather-sealing, and less plastic. That weight enhances balance and ergonomics with FF lenses. Canons in general are bigger and lighter, and Canonites prefer it that way. Most Nikons are somewhere in-between.

[Rondec]

Pentax has chosen to stay with DSLR design and they have the right to do so; however for around $2.5K with kit lenses, I see a lot of reasons to go for Z6 rather than the K1ii. If Pentax can come up with a K1 that is much lighter .. close to 600gms, it will be interesting.
On that note, not sure why the size/weight for K1 went up so much. After all, any of the pentax apsc bodies could house a FF sensor.

The K-1 II with the 28-105 is 2300 and the Z6 with the 24-70 is 2600. The actual shooting experience is going to be quite different between these cameras. If you want video and fast frame rates, clearly the Z6 is the way to go. If you want better still photography, then I think the K-1 II is a significantly better tool for things like portraiture and landscape.

Honestly, at this point, if you are going mirrorless, the Sony ecosystem and in particular the A7 III looks like a better deal. I don't like Sony very much, but with Nikon you are going to end up using an adapter and shooting with F mount lenses for the most part. I probably wouldn't buy in to that till they have their lens line up filled out a little better.