[BigMackCam]

Considering the amount of money I have put into the hobby, I could have bought some stuff new. But I wouldn't have even half the gear I have (and part of the joy for me is in having a bunch of options).

I'd never lust for the DFA 21 if I didn't have two other Ltds that I acquired at a very reasonable price of 350€ each (this before the HD price reductions - the 77 was 1050€ new... So that deal saved me 700€, which is *more* than my usual monthly cost of living). So now I'm saving up for it - until finances permit.

The simple fact is, most folks buy within their means (or sometimes slightly above them, using finance). It's a very small percentage who can afford to buy everything they need and want without looking for the best deal around, or at least a good deal, and that usually includes used equipment. Even when my income allowed me to be somewhat frivolous and buy brand new kit when I needed or wanted it, I still waited for discounts and end-of-line deals. I never gave money away unnecessarily.

I want Pentax to live on (ideally under Ricoh ownership), so I'll continue to buy brand new Pentax products when I can... but Ricoh has to price them within my means. If they don't, that's fine - I understand completely... but when that happens, I'll buy a used or third party alternative. That has nothing to do with me supporting or not supporting the brand - it's just personal economics

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Last edited by BigMackCam; 10-21-2021 at 02:13 AM.

[BigMackCam]

Of course. I am just saying that without new sales Pentax will not survive.

Sure, that's the same for any business

And us discussing here Pentax future without buying what Pentax makes is just, how it is in English? Producing hot air?

How often does someone have to buy a new Pentax product to qualify for discussing Pentax' future? My last brand-new Pentax purchase was in November 2019... can I still discuss the future of the brand, or is that just hot air until I buy something else new? Or perhaps I have to buy one of the recently-released products in order to join in the discussion with any real validity?

As I said already, the person who buys a £100 used Pentax body and kit lens might be the same person who, in a few months time, spends their savings on a new Pentax lens, or even a K-3III or K-1II. I'd say that buys them a ticket to the discussion, and their opinions mean something as they're part of Ricoh's potential market...

[steephill]

Buying used gear does help Pentax if the original owner is upgrading to newer Pentax bodies and lenses. I suspect that scenario is much more likely for more recent used kit than old film era stuff though.

[Rondec]

Having a good used market place is healthy for Pentax too. Certainly they don't make money off of those sales, but the more people who own and shoot K mount cameras, the better the chance that they will get a sale of something new (flash/lens/camera body/battery) in the future.

I think the K-3 III actually sold pretty well. Obviously it is out of many people's price range, but we had waited long enough for it that people had saved up for it.

[jersey]

How often does someone have to buy a new Pentax product to qualify for discussing Pentax' future?

I never said anything about qualifying for anything. I hope at least. English is not my native language so if it sounded so then sorry. I just wanted to say that if someone wants to help Pentax stay afloat buying new gear is only way.

[Mistral75]

(...) Even when my income allowed me to be somewhat frivolous and buy brand new kit when I needed or wanted it, I still waited for discounts and end-of-line deals. I never gave money away unnecessarily.

(...)

That's because you're living in the northeastern part of England, close to Scotland. You might even have some Scottish ancestors.

[Kunzite]

All in all to make Pentax afloat we need to buy Pentax gear. New, shiny Pentax gear. Not necessarily newest constructions, but go to shops and buy Pentax. Otherwise all that brand loyalty means literally nothing. Buying used gear does not bring income to Pentax.

This ^^^

How often does someone have to buy a new Pentax product to qualify for discussing Pentax' future? My last brand-new Pentax purchase was in November 2019... can I still discuss the future of the brand, or is that just hot air until I buy something else new? Or perhaps I have to buy one of the recently-released products in order to join in the discussion with any real validity?

But it's not like this ^^^

This is about the simple fact that Pentax' future depends on us buying. New, shiny Pentax gear.
Clearly, nobody has to buy anything - that's entirely up to each of us, obviously. In particular, nobody has to buy just to help Pentax; and yes, it's Pentax' job to make compelling products for us.
At the very least, though, we should keep this simple fact in mind next time we're thinking "hey, I'd like this Pentax camera/lens/whatever, but I'm not sure about Pentax' future - is it a good idea for me to buy more Pentax gear?".

P.S. Sigma and Tamron abandoning Pentax K? Yep, that was us not buying (in quantities Sigma and Tamron would be happy with). Now it's too late, they won't ever make a new SLR lens again.

[Kunzite]

Buying used gear does help Pentax if the original owner is upgrading to newer Pentax bodies and lenses. I suspect that scenario is much more likely for more recent used kit than old film era stuff though.

Buying used gear often helps Pentaxians switch over to <insert mirrorless brand here>

[Rondec]

Buying used gear often helps Pentaxians switch over to <insert mirrorless brand here>

I think having a healthy community involves having people who shoot all levels of K mount camera. This includes ancient cameras like the *ist D and K-100D and newer ones as well. When early adopters move on from their last cameras they often sell their older cameras and it is good if there is some market for them.

Obviously Pentax needs to have people buy new stuff too -- that goes without saying -- but my impression is Pentax does pretty well, when they actually release new products.

I have money to buy the DFA 21 when it actually comes out and would have bought it last year if it came out then. The same with the K-1 III. But I'll probably sell my K-1 original when I buy that too.

[Kunzite]

I think having a healthy community involves having people who shoot all levels of K mount camera. This includes ancient cameras like the *ist D and K-100D and newer ones as well. When early adopters move on from their last cameras they often sell their older cameras and it is good if there is some market for them.

Obviously Pentax needs to have people buy new stuff too -- that goes without saying -- but my impression is Pentax does pretty well, when they actually release new products.

I have money to buy the DFA 21 when it actually comes out and would have bought it last year if it came out then. The same with the K-1 III. But I'll probably sell my K-1 original when I buy that too.

There's a world of difference between "Pentax' future depends on us buying new shiny Pentax products" and "you! Yes, you behind the bike shed! You haven't bought any new Pentax in the last 6 months, GET OUT!"

Pentax does pretty well because enough people buy new stuff.
You're speaking of buying two new (well, one new and one future) expensive Pentax products. If there's any disagreement, I can't see it.

[BigMackCam]

I never said anything about qualifying for anything. I hope at least. English is not my native language so if it sounded so then sorry. I just wanted to say that if someone wants to help Pentax stay afloat buying new gear is only way.

You've no need to apologise I came on a little strong, so it's me who should apologise to you

The way I see it (and it's just my personal opinion), Ricoh alone - its board of directors and executive management - are solely responsible for the survival of Pentax. There's absolutely zero responsibility on customers to help... Ricoh isn't a cancer charity, a disaster relief fund, a conservation group... it's not even a small, local Mom 'n' Pop business trying to scrape a living so that the kids can eat three square meals a day... all of which warrant our help or patronage. It's a global, multi-faceted commercial organisation with one purpose: to make money for its shareholders, by supplying products and services that are enticing to potential buyers, at prices they're willing and able to pay. If Pentax fails (and I don't for one minute think that's going to happen), it won't be because we didn't help (and nor should we have to); it'll be because Ricoh failed to find that right balance between product desirability, potential market, and price. Thus far, I think they're doing a good job, though the prices for recent products are increasing significantly and I suspect there'll be far fewer new products that will be within my own grasp or, more likely, willingness to purchase new. So long as I'm in the minority within their target market, that's fine, and they'll do OK

I hope that didn't come across as a rant, and certainly not towards you. It's not intended that way, and - once again - apologies for coming on a bit strong in my previous responses

[BigMackCam]

That's because you're living in the northeastern part of England, close to Scotland. You might even have some Scottish ancestors. :p

Just between you and me, I believe I do. Don't tell anyone else, though...

[BigMackCam]

Sigma and Tamron abandoning Pentax K? Yep, that was us not buying (in quantities Sigma and Tamron would be happy with). Now it's too late, they won't ever make a new SLR lens again.

As I recall there was (and still is) plenty of demand for competitively-priced third-party lenses in the Pentax community. That the size of Sigma and Tamron's K-mount market segment was much smaller than their F, EF, E-mount segments wasn't a result of us not buying... it was that Pentax - under several owners - had withered from its significant position in the market due to poor management, so there were too few of us left to buy Sigma and Tamron

Lest my posts be interpreted as anti-Pentax, that's not the case. I'm as pro-Pentax as I ever was... I just have a very clinical view of brands and businesses, at least at this scale...

[Kunzite]

The way I see it (and it's just my personal opinion), Ricoh alone - its board of directors and executive management - are solely responsible for the survival of Pentax. There's absolutely zero responsibility on customers to help...

Right, we don't have any responsibility to help. Stating the simple fact - that Pentax' future depends on us buying new shiny Pentax products - doesn't set responsibilities.
If anything, the main responsibility is on Ricoh Imaging - to find a way of making compelling products, and to convince us to buy them. But even this is not set by that simple, factual statement.

On our side - how about acting on our own interest? If - and I'll emphasis this again - if we want to have the DSLR (Pentax) option for the foreseeable future, we might want to hesitate less in buying new shiny Pentax products we already want.

Some part of me buying the D FA* 50mm was it being the first true high-end Pentax prime in a good while. Some part of it was "I want Pentax to make more of these".
And I want Pentax to make more D FA Limiteds, too (and less Tamron rebadges)

[BigMackCam]

On our side - how about acting on our own interest? If - and I'll emphasis this again - if we want to have the DSLR (Pentax) option for the foreseeable future, we might want to hesitate less in buying new shiny Pentax products we already want.

Some part of me buying the D FA* 50mm was it being the first true high-end Pentax prime in a good while. Some part of it was "I want Pentax to make more of these".
And I want Pentax to make more D FA Limiteds, too (and less Tamron rebadges)

I agree, Alex... if we don't buy the products when we want them and can afford them, Pentax won't be around for much longer. For my part, I'll keep buying Pentax products - including new ones that directly benefit Ricoh's bottom line - when I want them (which is most of the time ) and I can both afford and justify them. My issue these days is, whilst I can just about afford them, I simply can't justify them Well, not as often as I'd like, at least