[alfdog]

Just got my K20D body about a month ago, don't feel bad $960 shipped.

As much as I like new toys, I hate paying the premium for having it first.

[RMabo]

The Pentax K20D and the Sony A700 is in the exact same class as all tests points out. The K10D was a class above the D80 as also all test said, and most compared it to the D200. Assuming that Pentax follow Nikons model placement model for model is futile. They don't and they won't (nor do anyone else for that matter!). Neither will Pentax meet all Nikon models as they are a 4,4% marketshare player and simply cannot fill every thinkable niche like Nikon can with their 40% marketshare.
As for the naming of the models, it may well be that FF will not use the K-name. But then again, there are suggestion that the new entry level (K2000D?) will not use the K-name either. So maybe the k-naming is on its way out?

The K10D sold for the same as the D80 and much less than the D200.
The coming D90 is in the same price segment as the K20D and much less than the D300 and A700. So, from the buyers point of view - the K10D competed with the D80 and the K20D competes with the D90. From the buyers point of view, they are in the same class because they sell for similar prices.

Magazines may not agree but what's matter is how the consumers sees it.
If we look at it even more close, Pentax has created a sort of market segment in-between the D80 and the D300. A mixed bag of professional features and build quality, with lower market features. Above the D80 and below the D300, but more close to D80 price than D300.

[Leaf Fan]

That's one of the infamous Brooklyn, NY scam sites. Sorry to tell you.

Sorry to tell you guys, arrived Friday, I just got into my office today, nice new perfect K20D on my desk. Battery, strap, charger, all included as stated. $771 shipped.

Wild Digital gets my thumbs up.

[Mr. The Guy]

Sorry to tell you guys, arrived Friday, I just got into my office today, nice new perfect K20D on my desk. Battery, strap, charger, all included as stated. $771 shipped

Review sites are a crock. The biggest whiners are those who pay the least money. If you pay with a credit card you're protected anyhow. If the K20D doesn't get updated next week, I'll seriously consider this.

[aleonx3]

The K10D sold for the same as the D80 and much less than the D200.
The coming D90 is in the same price segment as the K20D and much less than the D300 and A700. So, from the buyers point of view - the K10D competed with the D80 and the K20D competes with the D90. From the buyers point of view, they are in the same class because they sell for similar prices.

Magazines may not agree but what's matter is how the consumers sees it.
If we look at it even more close, Pentax has created a sort of market segment in-between the D80 and the D300. A mixed bag of professional features and build quality, with lower market features. Above the D80 and below the D300, but more close to D80 price than D300.

The k10D is more like D200 although they are share the same sensor different engine rather than the D80; there is no scene mode on the k10D. However, pricewise, the k10D which is no longer available would still be cheaper than the D80.

[k100d]

Sorry to tell you guys, arrived Friday, I just got into my office today, nice new perfect K20D on my desk. Battery, strap, charger, all included as stated. $771 shipped.

Wild Digital gets my thumbs up.

what is the number charged to ur credit card after conversion in CDN?

[nosnoop]

Review sites are a crock.

To each his own. Review sites are invaluable to me for my online purchase.

The biggest whiners are those who pay the least money.

Aren't people who consider these too-good-to-be-true pricing companies in the first place are the ones who want to pay the least money?

[Okami]

Whats the sorry to tell you part? If you got it congrats to the k20d family

Just trying to warn you because my cousin got caught in one of these scams. Gave her the whole bullshit about how he battery isn't good enough, lens she has to buy this one, if she doesn't pay extra she gets the non warrentied grey market one.

Sadly enough i didn't know about it until after she already gave them her card. Now 4 months later her CC company finally seems tobe able to get her month back. BTW they charged her card TWICE also.

Anyways. Congrats if its for real

[levelred]

Sorry to tell you guys, arrived Friday, I just got into my office today, nice new perfect K20D on my desk. Battery, strap, charger, all included as stated. $771 shipped.

Wild Digital gets my thumbs up.

Can you post a link where it say the included accessories all I get there under included accessories it says " 1 Year Warranty "

Thanx

[RMabo]

The k10D is more like D200 although they are share the same sensor different engine rather than the D80; there is no scene mode on the k10D. However, pricewise, the k10D which is no longer available would still be cheaper than the D80.

The weather sealing of the K10D makes it "more like D200", but then the same thing can be said about the K200D because it too has weather sealing. Obviously, weather sealing is no longer what differentiate pro or semi-pro models from other market segments. It is true that the K10D lacks scene mode, so it therefore must be above the competitions semi-pro models since the semi-pro models from the competition has more consumer friendly automodes than Pentax has... I don't see the lack of scene mode as a proof of the K10D belonging to the D200 market segment, especially not when it costed so little. So, again, from the buyers perspective it belongs to the same market segment as the D80 because the sales price was similar, or even below. And those who do bought the D200 could say the camera used a more expensive version of the sensor (4 channels) that made continous shooting so much faster, and therefore this means it is in a higher market segment than the K10D was.

D300 and A700 are more equipped than the K20D, and yes they cost more as a result. Even the new Nikon D90 is more equipped than the K20D, but it is true it lacks weather sealing and the fine build quality (but as the K200D has professional build quality in an entry level body, this alone is not enough to call it semi-pro or pro).
So on the market, in the eyes of the buyers, the K20D and D90 competes.
When they enter the shop to try out different models, and they try out the D90 and then ask "what other models can you offer me in this price bracket" I'm pretty confident that the sales person will show the K20D, "here, this one is similar priced".
When a customer looks for the D300 and asks for other similar priced models, the sales person is more unlikely to bring out the K20D... So in the eyes of the customer, K20D competes against the D90 and the K10D competed against the D80. I know many that were considering the D80 bought the K10D. We have had many D80 or K10D-threads. Not so many D200 or K10D-threads. Probably because those who wanted the extra speed of the D200 never considered the K10D.

[ghelary]

I agree with RMbao.

And I have a question for you, fellow Pentaxians: how do you choose your new bodies when you want to buy one ?

When I came to Pentax (to buy the K10D), it was because I had more for my money than the competition. And because of the excellent reports on this model.

There is 2 cases with people on the SLR market :
- Professionnals: big, sometimes limiteless budget, shoot mainly Canon or Nikon (sometimes both)
- Amateurs: they have a budget and want the best for their budget.

I'm a bit sick of reading people complaining about the fact that Pentax have no professionnal body. For the price of a D300, I can buy 2 K20D, for the price of a D700, I can buy 4 K20D....
I thought I was quite confortable with my budget, but I wouldn't have the money to buy a Kx0D every year. It seems that on the forum a lot of people have 3K/year budget just for the body (the price at release of a Nikon D700 or Canon D5)
My reasonning is that you can expect real improvement at every new model release, therefore, it's stupid to spend a 10 years budget on a "pro" model that would be completly outdated in 5 years time by high end "consumer" models.

On the other side, the most reputed photograph on the forum, Benjikan, keeps defending Pentax against angry amateurs. And his gallery is the very proof that you can achieve stunning professionnal results with a 800€ body.

Pro:
- Pentax is the brand that offers the most for your money at this moment.
Cons:
- Pentax have no pro model,

And I don't care since I wouldn't have the money to buy such a model.

For the ones who want a pro model, and have the money for it, why don't you try Nikon or Canon ?
For the ones who complain about Pentax marketing strategy, please remember that you are on a Pentax user forum, not on a Hoya shareholder forum.

And as a conclusion, yes I would like also higher Iso, lower noise, brighter view finder, a better designed lire view and so on. We all know that it will come in time and that will cost money.

[ManuH]

Pro:
- Pentax is the brand that offers the most for your money at this moment.
Cons:
- Pentax have no pro model,

Funny, that's exactly what I wrote in another forum. You did a very good summary of "Why Pentax?". I'm looking at other systems from time to time but do not see enough incentive to switch. I would only loose something I don't want to loose (money being the first one).

Photography can be a costly hobby and the things to buy when you start seem to never end. It's not only the body and lenses, but the accessories as well (tripod, monopod, flash, filters, lighting, books, software, etc.) Now that I have a good set of lenses and a good body (K20D), I'm starting to concentrate more on these things that are maybe more important for the quality of photographs (particularly lighting).

[AVANT]

The K series dSLRs were not designed to be "direct" competitors. We all know Pentax cant survive going heads up against Canon and Nikon, Pentax is not large enough of a company to compete. The K dSLRs have always been fit in between classes type of cameras. As far as where the K10D fits with competing with the Nikon D80 and D200, the K10D honestly fits in between in regards to features, but was sold at the price of the D80.

However, price is NOT the only determining factor for picking out competition. Features matter a lot. I was choosing between the XTI, 30D, the D200, D80, K10D, and a couple Oly's. Price was similar enough to me that I rather picked a camera that present me with more value in regards to ergonomics and usable features, the K10D won me over.

[montecarlo]

Funny, that's exactly what I wrote in another forum. You did a very good summary of "Why Pentax?". I'm looking at other systems from time to time but do not see enough incentive to switch. I would only loose something I don't want to loose (money being the first one).

Photography can be a costly hobby and the things to buy when you start seem to never end. It's not only the body and lenses, but the accessories as well (tripod, monopod, flash, filters, lighting, books, software, etc.) Now that I have a good set of lenses and a good body (K20D), I'm starting to concentrate more on these things that are maybe more important for the quality of photographs (particularly lighting).

I'm just saying the same on other forums , with more or less success (regarding others questions like "what to choose?"). About Pentax there are who complaints: lack of lenses (relatively to Canon/Nikon) and too slow AF (same, relatively to Canon/Nikon) and noisier images than the competition (again, Canon/Nikon, especially Canon). For me there are enough lenses and the AF is fast enough (well, not so fast with the 80-320 on the K100D, it's true). The whole is more importnat I believe and yes, Pentax offers the more that any other manufacturer for the same price. The marketing of Pentax might be the weakest point
To me Pentax it the camera for the more serious amateur or hobbist not for one which doesn't know anything about photography or for the people who use the camera only on full auto mode.

[Mr. The Guy]

To each his own. Review sites are invaluable to me for my online purchase

Which part of "pay with a credit card" is unclear?