K20D will be replaced very soon? (Signs of..)

Edvinas · 09-11-2008, 06:46 AM

Originally posted by montecarlo

Why 18-55 SDM ??? Even the older version beats the Canon/Nikon/Sony kit lenses

(Sony also has some screw drive AF lens too

)

Well, average Joe coming from P&S doesn't understand that nice focussing ring is good. He doesn't know that non-rotating front element is good. He doesn't care about lens hood. He doesn't pixelpeep. He just tries camera in store and instead of copletely silent Nikon and Canon focussing he hears ZZZZZZZ-ZZZZZZZZ! And he says "No, I don't want that noisy camera!".

Originally posted by montecarlo

Truth is I don't understand the market : Pentax's cameras have the most features (which are for help for the photographer) that a camera of that price can have and still less sales (than Canon/Nikon) .
People should know that the photographer makes the photo and not the camera and concentrate on what a photographer needs more. For example K200D is the only camera in its category with : plastic coated metal body + weather sealed, 11 focusing points of which 9 cross type (Nikon D60 has only three!), very good viewfinder (better than D60, Sony A200/300/350 and Olys), top LCD, full compatibility with older Pentax lenses (KA/KAF) and partial with others (K/M42) and working stabiliser with any lens mounted and more, with focus confirmation

, AA batteries, cheapest and most common power source

, optional vertical grip (yes, Canon has it also), etc.

you're mentioning features important to photographer. Average Joe coming from P&S on the other hand doesn't care about cross type sensors, top LCD, compatibility with old lenses, he doesn't like AA batteries, exposure bracketing and so on. He is interested in speed (most P&S shooters choosing DSLR are expecting DSLR to instantly lock focus and take picture of their playing kid in dimly lit room, Pentax doesn't shine at all here), they want LiveView and other not really useful gimmicks. so, they trie camera in store and they see that Nikon, Canon are able instantly and silently focus and to take the picture, and Pentax struggles in that. Plus it's noisy. Plus it's without charger and with AA batteries. So, guess which camera will he choose.

**Rorschach** · 09-11-2008, 06:46 AM

Originally posted by Leaf Fan

We'll see. So far so good. I did get the typical "contact us about your order" but didn't purchase any of the high priced accessories. Before ordering I confirmed I was purchasing the US model with applicable warranty good in Canada (even called Pentax Canada - which is 5 min from my house) and confirmed they honour the manufacturer's 1 year warranty here in Canada. Wild Digital tried to sell me the 4 year warranty. Guy was good on phone, a little pressure on the accessories but when I said "no" he didn't push. Like I said, shipped to arrive tomorrow, got all the confirmation e-mails from Wild Digital and from FedEX directly with confirmation/tracking info, and everything seems on the up and up so far. Hopefully I don't receive a brick in the package.....lol

As long as I get the product I want for the price I want all's good. also, with the reviews you read about these companies, only people with a beef post, those who have a good smooth transaction don't generally take the time to go and detail all the good things that they've encountered, so I always take those with a grain of salt.

Stay tuned....

OT: judging by your handle, Air Canada Centre is probably a place you frequent? I lived in Toronto a few years back and went there to see a few games...including the World Cup of Hockey final game between Canada and Finland

Regards,
Boucicaut

bt*ist · 09-11-2008, 07:54 AM

Originally posted by Edvinas

Well, average Joe coming from P&S doesn't understand that nice focussing ring is good. He doesn't know that non-rotating front element is good. He doesn't care about lens hood. He doesn't pixelpeep. He just tries camera in store and instead of copletely silent Nikon and Canon focussing he hears ZZZZZZZ-ZZZZZZZZ! And he says "No, I don't want that noisy camera!".

you're mentioning features important to photographer. Average Joe coming from P&S on the other hand doesn't care about cross type sensors, top LCD, compatibility with old lenses, he doesn't like AA batteries, exposure bracketing and so on. He is interested in speed (most P&S shooters choosing DSLR are expecting DSLR to instantly lock focus and take picture of their playing kid in dimly lit room, Pentax doesn't shine at all here), they want LiveView and other not really useful gimmicks. so, they trie camera in store and they see that Nikon, Canon are able instantly and silently focus and to take the picture, and Pentax struggles in that. Plus it's noisy. Plus it's without charger and with AA batteries. So, guess which camera will he choose.

Well-put. Take heed, Pentax marketing Dept. Hopefully the K2000D will be the effortless-transition DSLR first-time users will fall in love with.

Blue · 09-11-2008, 08:15 AM

Time for RH stuff to be reported to MythBusters.com

Substitute · 09-11-2008, 08:16 AM

I bought a K20D on this forum a few months ago. Used it at a festival and sold it a week later.
I really didn't see the improvements, IMO (faster af, noise reduction...nope sorry)
Then, I realized that the lifecycle of the D300 had been really short since Nikon released the D700 a few months later.
Either Pentax has a full frame in its basket, and will uncover it soon (could be the reason why they did not released more DA lenses)
or they will release a K30d and then another one in March, full frame this time.
Not that I like it, I've bought an Hassie, a leica and a 4x5 years ago and still use them, I am not even considering new releases in those brands...
These were my wishfull thinkings of today!

RiceHigh · 09-11-2008, 08:21 AM

Originally posted by Substitute

I bought a K20D on this forum a few months ago. Used it at a festival and sold it a week later.
I really didn't see the improvements, IMO (faster af, noise reduction...nope sorry)
Then, I realized that the lifecycle of the D300 had been really short since Nikon released the D700 a few months later.
Either Pentax has a full frame in its basket, and will uncover it soon (could be the reason why they did not released more DA lenses)
or they will release a K30d and then another one in March, full frame this time.
Not that I like it, I've bought an Hassie, a leica and a 4x5 years ago and still use them, I am not even considering new releases in those brands...
These were my wishfull thinkings of today!

What do you think about the exposure accuracy? From my research, this also haven't any improvement neither, solid evidence here. One may still argue that it is a coincidence, but its very unlikey!

Edvinas · 09-11-2008, 08:29 AM

Originally posted by Substitute

Then, I realized that the lifecycle of the D300 had been really short since Nikon released the D700 a few months later.

D700 doesn't replace D300.

RiceHigh · 09-11-2008, 08:32 AM

Originally posted by ftpaddict

They have to if they want to steer clear of bankruptcy.

Yes, I fully agree.

I think they have to do something to retain the old users and customers, even though they cannot get new market share.

RiceHigh · 09-11-2008, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by Edvinas

D700 doesn't replace D300.

The reality is. D700 takes up the role of D300. D90 replaces both D300 and D80! Nikon just knows how the market will react when they released the D90! Ditto for Canon made the 450D and much fewer people considered the 40D then. Now that the D90 is even much stronger and very close to the D300, then? How would the market react?

kenyee · 09-11-2008, 08:37 AM

Yep, D700 is the "low end FF", not the replacement for the D300 (aka "high end APS-C"). It made a lot of D300 and D3 owners unhappy though :-)
Nikon's lineup is:
D40 < D90 < D300 < D700 < D3 < D3x
Both APS-C and FF has low, mid, and high ends as they should. The D3 was released as FF first but there was no low or high end FF.

Currently Pentax only has APS-C coverage:
K2000D (at Photokina) < K200D < K20D

Substitute · 09-11-2008, 08:58 AM

Reality check:
the D700 replaces the D300 in most buyers'hearts.
Used D300 sales skyrocket since the D700 has been launched.
Noise reduction, full frame, lighter and smaller than the D3, all my Nikon friends were expecting this camera.
I bought a Pentax because it used M lenses, ( at that time the D200 was laucnhed and was more expensive), and it was small (I have tiny hands), that's it. Now you give me fast AF and better noise control , that's cool, you don't I'll still take pictures anyway

Kunzite · 09-11-2008, 09:04 AM

Using the same logic, the D700 could be regarded as the replacement for K20D. After all, many pentaxians will switch to Nikon if Pentax won't release a 'pro'/FF DSLR at Photokina, selling their K20Ds on the way

Sorry, it doesn't work this way. The D700 is certainly not a D300 replacement, but a camera on a higher level; and by changing one with the other you don't "replace", you "upgrade".

Substitute · 09-11-2008, 09:08 AM

Today Replacing IS Upgrading. That's all you do! Regardless of the line-up of the brand, look at all the ebay and forum sales "selling D300 cause of D700"
This is almost the same segment of buyers wihch is targetted. Nikonians who have a bunch of old Nikon lenses and were dying to use full frame...It's only on the Leica planet that some will replace their M6 by an M3 (which is way less sophisticated)
And as far as making the move to Nikon...I tend to regard D700 as a replacement to my K10d..yep!

If you give the buyer the possibility to expect more, then he will desire more, and get more.
The D300 looks dim compared to a D700

pghwarrior23 · 09-11-2008, 09:13 AM

"I tend to regard D700 as a replacement to my K10d"

Pretty darn nice upgrade there. I am considering an upgrade to the D300. Just justify D700 at this point and don't really need or are about FF. I just want more FPS, better LCD, more consistent AF and higher less noisy ISO. Using K10D right now. So Pentax announcement will be part of my decision making for sure. Hope they wow us all.

Substitute · 09-11-2008, 09:14 AM

Correct!!!and you'll get amazing deals on D300S...
I am waiting for a Pentax announcement.
But I'll keep my K10D with a bunch of M and FA lenses in case they release a FF some day!

09-11-2008, 08:32 AM	#38
RiceHigh Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 1,934 Original Poster	They have to do something more important in Photokina! Originally posted by ftpaddict They have to if they want to steer clear of bankruptcy. Yes, I fully agree. I think they have to do something to retain the old users and customers, even though they cannot get new market share.

09-11-2008, 08:34 AM	#39
RiceHigh Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 1,934 Original Poster	The reality is! Originally posted by Edvinas D700 doesn't replace D300. The reality is. D700 takes up the role of D300. D90 replaces both D300 and D80! Nikon just knows how the market will react when they released the D90! Ditto for Canon made the 450D and much fewer people considered the 40D then. Now that the D90 is even much stronger and very close to the D300, then? How would the market react?

09-11-2008, 09:08 AM	#43
Substitute Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: NOLA Posts: 396	Today Replacing IS Upgrading. That's all you do! Regardless of the line-up of the brand, look at all the ebay and forum sales "selling D300 cause of D700" This is almost the same segment of buyers wihch is targetted. Nikonians who have a bunch of old Nikon lenses and were dying to use full frame...It's only on the Leica planet that some will replace their M6 by an M3 (which is way less sophisticated) And as far as making the move to Nikon...I tend to regard D700 as a replacement to my K10d..yep! If you give the buyer the possibility to expect more, then he will desire more, and get more. The D300 looks dim compared to a D700 Last edited by Substitute; 09-11-2008 at 09:15 AM.

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09-11-2008, 06:46 AM	#31
Edvinas Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kaunas Posts: 1,458	Originally posted by montecarlo Why 18-55 SDM ??? Even the older version beats the Canon/Nikon/Sony kit lenses (Sony also has some screw drive AF lens too ) Well, average Joe coming from P&S doesn't understand that nice focussing ring is good. He doesn't know that non-rotating front element is good. He doesn't care about lens hood. He doesn't pixelpeep. He just tries camera in store and instead of copletely silent Nikon and Canon focussing he hears ZZZZZZZ-ZZZZZZZZ! And he says "No, I don't want that noisy camera!". Originally posted by montecarlo Truth is I don't understand the market : Pentax's cameras have the most features (which are for help for the photographer) that a camera of that price can have and still less sales (than Canon/Nikon) . People should know that the photographer makes the photo and not the camera and concentrate on what a photographer needs more. For example K200D is the only camera in its category with : plastic coated metal body + weather sealed, 11 focusing points of which 9 cross type (Nikon D60 has only three!), very good viewfinder (better than D60, Sony A200/300/350 and Olys), top LCD, full compatibility with older Pentax lenses (KA/KAF) and partial with others (K/M42) and working stabiliser with any lens mounted and more, with focus confirmation , AA batteries, cheapest and most common power source , optional vertical grip (yes, Canon has it also), etc. you're mentioning features important to photographer. Average Joe coming from P&S on the other hand doesn't care about cross type sensors, top LCD, compatibility with old lenses, he doesn't like AA batteries, exposure bracketing and so on. He is interested in speed (most P&S shooters choosing DSLR are expecting DSLR to instantly lock focus and take picture of their playing kid in dimly lit room, Pentax doesn't shine at all here), they want LiveView and other not really useful gimmicks. so, they trie camera in store and they see that Nikon, Canon are able instantly and silently focus and to take the picture, and Pentax struggles in that. Plus it's noisy. Plus it's without charger and with AA batteries. So, guess which camera will he choose.

09-11-2008, 06:46 AM	#32
Rorschach Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Kuusamo, Finland Photos: Gallery Posts: 652	Originally posted by Leaf Fan We'll see. So far so good. I did get the typical "contact us about your order" but didn't purchase any of the high priced accessories. Before ordering I confirmed I was purchasing the US model with applicable warranty good in Canada (even called Pentax Canada - which is 5 min from my house) and confirmed they honour the manufacturer's 1 year warranty here in Canada. Wild Digital tried to sell me the 4 year warranty. Guy was good on phone, a little pressure on the accessories but when I said "no" he didn't push. Like I said, shipped to arrive tomorrow, got all the confirmation e-mails from Wild Digital and from FedEX directly with confirmation/tracking info, and everything seems on the up and up so far. Hopefully I don't receive a brick in the package.....lol As long as I get the product I want for the price I want all's good. also, with the reviews you read about these companies, only people with a beef post, those who have a good smooth transaction don't generally take the time to go and detail all the good things that they've encountered, so I always take those with a grain of salt. Stay tuned.... OT: judging by your handle, Air Canada Centre is probably a place you frequent? I lived in Toronto a few years back and went there to see a few games...including the World Cup of Hockey final game between Canada and Finland Regards, Boucicaut

09-11-2008, 07:54 AM	#33
bt*ist Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: London, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 211	Originally posted by Edvinas Well, average Joe coming from P&S doesn't understand that nice focussing ring is good. He doesn't know that non-rotating front element is good. He doesn't care about lens hood. He doesn't pixelpeep. He just tries camera in store and instead of copletely silent Nikon and Canon focussing he hears ZZZZZZZ-ZZZZZZZZ! And he says "No, I don't want that noisy camera!". you're mentioning features important to photographer. Average Joe coming from P&S on the other hand doesn't care about cross type sensors, top LCD, compatibility with old lenses, he doesn't like AA batteries, exposure bracketing and so on. He is interested in speed (most P&S shooters choosing DSLR are expecting DSLR to instantly lock focus and take picture of their playing kid in dimly lit room, Pentax doesn't shine at all here), they want LiveView and other not really useful gimmicks. so, they trie camera in store and they see that Nikon, Canon are able instantly and silently focus and to take the picture, and Pentax struggles in that. Plus it's noisy. Plus it's without charger and with AA batteries. So, guess which camera will he choose. Well-put. Take heed, Pentax marketing Dept. Hopefully the K2000D will be the effortless-transition DSLR first-time users will fall in love with.

09-11-2008, 08:15 AM	#34
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Time for RH stuff to be reported to MythBusters.com

09-11-2008, 08:16 AM	#35
Substitute Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: NOLA Posts: 396	I bought a K20D on this forum a few months ago. Used it at a festival and sold it a week later. I really didn't see the improvements, IMO (faster af, noise reduction...nope sorry) Then, I realized that the lifecycle of the D300 had been really short since Nikon released the D700 a few months later. Either Pentax has a full frame in its basket, and will uncover it soon (could be the reason why they did not released more DA lenses) or they will release a K30d and then another one in March, full frame this time. Not that I like it, I've bought an Hassie, a leica and a 4x5 years ago and still use them, I am not even considering new releases in those brands... These were my wishfull thinkings of today!

09-11-2008, 08:21 AM	#36
RiceHigh Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 1,934 Original Poster	Originally posted by Substitute I bought a K20D on this forum a few months ago. Used it at a festival and sold it a week later. I really didn't see the improvements, IMO (faster af, noise reduction...nope sorry) Then, I realized that the lifecycle of the D300 had been really short since Nikon released the D700 a few months later. Either Pentax has a full frame in its basket, and will uncover it soon (could be the reason why they did not released more DA lenses) or they will release a K30d and then another one in March, full frame this time. Not that I like it, I've bought an Hassie, a leica and a 4x5 years ago and still use them, I am not even considering new releases in those brands... These were my wishfull thinkings of today! What do you think about the exposure accuracy? From my research, this also haven't any improvement neither, solid evidence here. One may still argue that it is a coincidence, but its very unlikey!

09-11-2008, 08:29 AM	#37
Edvinas Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kaunas Posts: 1,458	Originally posted by Substitute Then, I realized that the lifecycle of the D300 had been really short since Nikon released the D700 a few months later. D700 doesn't replace D300.

09-11-2008, 08:37 AM	#40
kenyee Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston, PRofMA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,026	Yep, D700 is the "low end FF", not the replacement for the D300 (aka "high end APS-C"). It made a lot of D300 and D3 owners unhappy though :-) Nikon's lineup is: D40 < D90 < D300 < D700 < D3 < D3x Both APS-C and FF has low, mid, and high ends as they should. The D3 was released as FF first but there was no low or high end FF. Currently Pentax only has APS-C coverage: K2000D (at Photokina) < K200D < K20D

09-11-2008, 08:58 AM	#41
Substitute Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: NOLA Posts: 396	Reality check: the D700 replaces the D300 in most buyers'hearts. Used D300 sales skyrocket since the D700 has been launched. Noise reduction, full frame, lighter and smaller than the D3, all my Nikon friends were expecting this camera. I bought a Pentax because it used M lenses, ( at that time the D200 was laucnhed and was more expensive), and it was small (I have tiny hands), that's it. Now you give me fast AF and better noise control , that's cool, you don't I'll still take pictures anyway

09-11-2008, 09:04 AM	#42
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Using the same logic, the D700 could be regarded as the replacement for K20D. After all, many pentaxians will switch to Nikon if Pentax won't release a 'pro'/FF DSLR at Photokina, selling their K20Ds on the way Sorry, it doesn't work this way. The D700 is certainly not a D300 replacement, but a camera on a higher level; and by changing one with the other you don't "replace", you "upgrade".

09-11-2008, 09:13 AM	#44
pghwarrior23 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Photos: Albums Posts: 331	"I tend to regard D700 as a replacement to my K10d" Pretty darn nice upgrade there. I am considering an upgrade to the D300. Just justify D700 at this point and don't really need or are about FF. I just want more FPS, better LCD, more consistent AF and higher less noisy ISO. Using K10D right now. So Pentax announcement will be part of my decision making for sure. Hope they wow us all.

09-11-2008, 09:14 AM	#45
Substitute Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: NOLA Posts: 396	Correct!!!and you'll get amazing deals on D300S... I am waiting for a Pentax announcement. But I'll keep my K10D with a bunch of M and FA lenses in case they release a FF some day!