K20D will be replaced very soon? (Signs of..)

fejker · 09-12-2008, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by jaad75

Sorry, fejker, but you just don't know what you're talking about... Can you see the difference between pictures from small sensor P&S and APS-C DSLRs? So let me tell you that even $10K camcorders have sensors not bigger than 2/3"... I guess the cheapest cam with big sensor is RED One and it's like $17500 just for a body... Now think about creative possibilities and cinematic quality you'll get using APS-C camcorder and different lenses... And its just around $1K... That's like a dream come true for someone wanting quality and artistic freedom but not being able to afford *real* camcorder.

All this limited to 5min of footage? Thanks but no thanks. Maybe in about five years or so we will have dSLRs shooting 1080p video until the ×××gig card will be full or even connect an external SSD to it and film till we drop. For now, please keep this joke of a movie mode out of dSLR world.

And yes, I know the difference between a small sensor and a big one.

BTW, have you even tried to shoot a vid with the D90? Trust me, it's a pain in the ass.

Mef · 09-12-2008, 06:59 PM

*I* am ready to bear the pain.

fejker · 09-12-2008, 07:04 PM

Then buy a D90 and a nice 50mm f/1.4 lens, what's the problem - what is holding 'you' back?

Mef · 09-12-2008, 07:22 PM

Well, it seems the problem is yours. What makes you lose your temper ?

I'm just talking about what I expect and want for myself.

(And whatever the next pentax DSLR comes with, I'll stay with pentax, would it only be for the gears I already gathered and love)

nosnoop · 09-12-2008, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by jaad75

Who needs AF? All real movies are made without AF. 24fps is a film standard, so it's good enough.

You are talking about professional movie making. Do you know how difficult it is for consumers to make 24fps video look good? Are you aware of the planning and skill involved in professional movie making? And I have had good experience with all these format as my HD camcorder supports 60i, 30p as well as 24p.

And yeah right, professional photographers has had years without AF, and see how many in this forum are demanding better AF for K30D?

Sure, in the hands of professional videographers, they won't sweat one bit with no AF and 24 fps, but most of us won't bear watching such video made by consumers.

ogl · 09-12-2008, 08:49 PM

The AD of K20D super from B&H Photo is real.
But, they put old data from K20D with K20D's camera number.

RMabo · 09-13-2008, 01:10 AM

Originally posted by RiceHigh

The reality is. D700 takes up the role of D300. D90 replaces both D300 and D80! Nikon just knows how the market will react when they released the D90! Ditto for Canon made the 450D and much fewer people considered the 40D then. Now that the D90 is even much stronger and very close to the D300, then? How would the market react?

Both Canon and Nikon introduces more power in each camera they release, even when this means that this power and features are more than what the model above offers.
So, yes Canon released the 450D to replace the 400 and less people got interrested in the 40D. Now they release the 50D that replaces, or is an upgrade to, the 40D.
Nikon now has the D90 and next one up is the D400 that will replace the D300 and be another step up the ladder.

And we have had - sort of - the same thing in Pentax lineup, remember when Pentax released the *ist DS? It had some improvements over the *ist Dand some were actually debating "buy a *ist DS or *ist D?"... And what about the K200D, it replaces the K100D, but many features and sensor and image processing is borrowed from the K10D which is a higher class model.

Now we have recent speculations that the new entry level model from Pentax will offer more than the K200D... so Pentax are moving towards the same product philosophy as Canon and Nikon = a new lower model offers more, in certain areas, than an older upper model.

fejker · 09-13-2008, 01:11 AM

Originally posted by nosnoop

You are talking about professional movie making. Do you know how difficult it is for consumers to make 24fps video look good? Are you aware of the planning and skill involved in professional movie making? And I have had good experience with all these format as my HD camcorder supports 60i, 30p as well as 24p.

And yeah right, professional photographers has had years without AF, and see how many in this forum are demanding better AF for K30D?

Sure, in the hands of professional videographers, they won't sweat one bit with no AF and 24 fps, but most of us won't bear watching such video made by consumers.

Exactly my point.

I need better AF because I shoot basketball games. And there are numerous things I'd rather see Pentax improve before they stick in a video mode - like DR, noise, bigger sensor (1.3 crop would be nice), better AF, shutter, etc.. If they can improve all this and still have time to make video mode work as it should than they can do whatever they want, but if they try to put video mode in without improving at least some of those things listed above, then I'd be pissed.

RMabo · 09-13-2008, 01:15 AM

Originally posted by ftpaddict

Hmm; no. Pentax' lineup should go like this:

KxD - with a 36x24 sensor, fast, accurate; good for sports and whatnot (going against A900, D700, 5D) (maybe with a built-in vertical grip to impress the roosters)

KxxD - APS-C sensor (going head-to-head against D300, 40/50D, A700)

KxxxD (competing with 450D, E-520, A200/300/350)

KxxxxD ( vs. D60, E-410, 1000D)

No, the KxxD - competes head to head to the D90, just like the K10D did compete with the D80. The KxD is the A700/D300/E3 market segment.
Just like there was room for a camera above the K10D that could compete with the D200 instead of D80, there is room for a camera above the K20D that could compete with the D300 and the coming D400. (since the D90 comes now, I expect the D400 to be released at the PMA show).

ogl · 09-13-2008, 01:53 AM

Yes. FF camera will be under another name.
K*D - is the A700/50D/E3 level.

RMabo · 09-13-2008, 03:05 AM

Originally posted by ogl

Yes. FF camera will be under another name.
K*D - is the A700/50D/E3 level.

It is much more logic to have the K-designation reserved for the APS-C models and then a special model name for the, eventual, 24x36 serie. They have a lot of letters to choose from, but I believe it won't be '*ist'

. It could be L. Why not? And using roman numerals.

LID, LIID, LIIID, LIVD? LXD (!).
Or re-use the Z-designation.
Z-1D, Z-2D and so on.
Or simply Pentax X.
That would do it.
It is simple.
Or just 'D'.
Pentax D.

ftpaddict · 09-13-2008, 03:09 AM

Originally posted by RMabo

Pentax D.

How about the Pentax N Digital?

RaduA · 09-13-2008, 05:19 AM

Originally posted by ftpaddict

How about the Pentax N Digital?

What about Pentax RH to celebrate a special pentaxian fan?
I mean it's the only pentaxian fan of Canon.

Radu

dopeytree · 09-13-2008, 06:51 AM

Originally posted by fejker

Exactly my point.

I need better AF because I shoot basketball games. And there are numerous things I'd rather see Pentax improve before they stick in a video mode - like DR, noise, bigger sensor (1.3 crop would be nice), better AF, shutter, etc.. If they can improve all this and still have time to make video mode work as it should than they can do whatever they want, but if they try to put video mode in without improving at least some of those things listed above, then I'd be pissed.

You seem pretty pissed at pentax?

If you want better af to shoot your sports then go buy a nikon with 51 point auto focus?

fejker · 09-13-2008, 07:24 AM

dopeytree: Not pissed at all, I just want improvement. And if they dump AF improvement over some stupid video mode then I will be pissed.

09-12-2008, 07:44 PM	#80
nosnoop Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,299	Originally posted by jaad75 Who needs AF? All real movies are made without AF. 24fps is a film standard, so it's good enough. You are talking about professional movie making. Do you know how difficult it is for consumers to make 24fps video look good? Are you aware of the planning and skill involved in professional movie making? And I have had good experience with all these format as my HD camcorder supports 60i, 30p as well as 24p. And yeah right, professional photographers has had years without AF, and see how many in this forum are demanding better AF for K30D? Sure, in the hands of professional videographers, they won't sweat one bit with no AF and 24 fps, but most of us won't bear watching such video made by consumers. Last edited by nosnoop; 09-12-2008 at 07:50 PM.

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09-12-2008, 06:58 PM	#76
fejker Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Slovenia Photos: Gallery Posts: 258	Originally posted by jaad75 Sorry, fejker, but you just don't know what you're talking about... Can you see the difference between pictures from small sensor P&S and APS-C DSLRs? So let me tell you that even $10K camcorders have sensors not bigger than 2/3"... I guess the cheapest cam with big sensor is RED One and it's like $17500 just for a body... Now think about creative possibilities and cinematic quality you'll get using APS-C camcorder and different lenses... And its just around $1K... That's like a dream come true for someone wanting quality and artistic freedom but not being able to afford real camcorder. All this limited to 5min of footage? Thanks but no thanks. Maybe in about five years or so we will have dSLRs shooting 1080p video until the ×××gig card will be full or even connect an external SSD to it and film till we drop. For now, please keep this joke of a movie mode out of dSLR world. And yes, I know the difference between a small sensor and a big one. BTW, have you even tried to shoot a vid with the D90? Trust me, it's a pain in the ass.

09-12-2008, 06:59 PM	#77
Mef Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Paris, France Posts: 26	I am ready to bear the pain.

09-12-2008, 07:04 PM	#78
fejker Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Slovenia Photos: Gallery Posts: 258	Then buy a D90 and a nice 50mm f/1.4 lens, what's the problem - what is holding 'you' back?

09-12-2008, 07:22 PM	#79
Mef Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Paris, France Posts: 26	Well, it seems the problem is yours. What makes you lose your temper ? I'm just talking about what I expect and want for myself. (And whatever the next pentax DSLR comes with, I'll stay with pentax, would it only be for the gears I already gathered and love)

09-12-2008, 08:49 PM	#81
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	The AD of K20D super from B&H Photo is real. But, they put old data from K20D with K20D's camera number.

09-13-2008, 01:10 AM	#82
RMabo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 845	Originally posted by RiceHigh The reality is. D700 takes up the role of D300. D90 replaces both D300 and D80! Nikon just knows how the market will react when they released the D90! Ditto for Canon made the 450D and much fewer people considered the 40D then. Now that the D90 is even much stronger and very close to the D300, then? How would the market react? Both Canon and Nikon introduces more power in each camera they release, even when this means that this power and features are more than what the model above offers. So, yes Canon released the 450D to replace the 400 and less people got interrested in the 40D. Now they release the 50D that replaces, or is an upgrade to, the 40D. Nikon now has the D90 and next one up is the D400 that will replace the D300 and be another step up the ladder. And we have had - sort of - the same thing in Pentax lineup, remember when Pentax released the ist DS? It had some improvements over the ist Dand some were actually debating "buy a ist DS or ist D?"... And what about the K200D, it replaces the K100D, but many features and sensor and image processing is borrowed from the K10D which is a higher class model. Now we have recent speculations that the new entry level model from Pentax will offer more than the K200D... so Pentax are moving towards the same product philosophy as Canon and Nikon = a new lower model offers more, in certain areas, than an older upper model.

09-13-2008, 01:11 AM	#83
fejker Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Slovenia Photos: Gallery Posts: 258	Originally posted by nosnoop You are talking about professional movie making. Do you know how difficult it is for consumers to make 24fps video look good? Are you aware of the planning and skill involved in professional movie making? And I have had good experience with all these format as my HD camcorder supports 60i, 30p as well as 24p. And yeah right, professional photographers has had years without AF, and see how many in this forum are demanding better AF for K30D? Sure, in the hands of professional videographers, they won't sweat one bit with no AF and 24 fps, but most of us won't bear watching such video made by consumers. Exactly my point. I need better AF because I shoot basketball games. And there are numerous things I'd rather see Pentax improve before they stick in a video mode - like DR, noise, bigger sensor (1.3 crop would be nice), better AF, shutter, etc.. If they can improve all this and still have time to make video mode work as it should than they can do whatever they want, but if they try to put video mode in without improving at least some of those things listed above, then I'd be pissed.

09-13-2008, 01:15 AM	#84
RMabo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 845	Originally posted by ftpaddict Hmm; no. Pentax' lineup should go like this: KxD - with a 36x24 sensor, fast, accurate; good for sports and whatnot (going against A900, D700, 5D) (maybe with a built-in vertical grip to impress the roosters) KxxD - APS-C sensor (going head-to-head against D300, 40/50D, A700) KxxxD (competing with 450D, E-520, A200/300/350) KxxxxD ( vs. D60, E-410, 1000D) No, the KxxD - competes head to head to the D90, just like the K10D did compete with the D80. The KxD is the A700/D300/E3 market segment. Just like there was room for a camera above the K10D that could compete with the D200 instead of D80, there is room for a camera above the K20D that could compete with the D300 and the coming D400. (since the D90 comes now, I expect the D400 to be released at the PMA show).

09-13-2008, 01:53 AM	#85
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Yes. FF camera will be under another name. K*D - is the A700/50D/E3 level.

09-13-2008, 03:05 AM	#86
RMabo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 845	Originally posted by ogl Yes. FF camera will be under another name. KD - is the A700/50D/E3 level. It is much more logic to have the K-designation reserved for the APS-C models and then a special model name for the, eventual, 24x36 serie. They have a lot of letters to choose from, but I believe it won't be 'ist' . It could be L. Why not? And using roman numerals. LID, LIID, LIIID, LIVD? LXD (!). Or re-use the Z-designation. Z-1D, Z-2D and so on. Or simply Pentax X. That would do it. It is simple. Or just 'D'. Pentax D.

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09-13-2008, 03:09 AM	#87
ftpaddict Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Yurp Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,666	Originally posted by RMabo Pentax D. How about the Pentax N Digital?

09-13-2008, 05:19 AM	#88
RaduA Guest	Originally posted by ftpaddict How about the Pentax N Digital? What about Pentax RH to celebrate a special pentaxian fan? I mean it's the only pentaxian fan of Canon. Radu

09-13-2008, 06:51 AM	#89
dopeytree Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Somerset, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 619	Originally posted by fejker Exactly my point. I need better AF because I shoot basketball games. And there are numerous things I'd rather see Pentax improve before they stick in a video mode - like DR, noise, bigger sensor (1.3 crop would be nice), better AF, shutter, etc.. If they can improve all this and still have time to make video mode work as it should than they can do whatever they want, but if they try to put video mode in without improving at least some of those things listed above, then I'd be pissed. You seem pretty pissed at pentax? If you want better af to shoot your sports then go buy a nikon with 51 point auto focus?

09-13-2008, 07:24 AM	#90
fejker Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Slovenia Photos: Gallery Posts: 258	dopeytree: Not pissed at all, I just want improvement. And if they dump AF improvement over some stupid video mode then I will be pissed.