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06-17-2018, 09:40 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
The 50-135 should have been a joint venture with Pentax.
As far as I know, it's the same lens. Exactly what the development arrangements were I have no idea. Same with the Tokina 10-17 and the DA 10-17. Just the fact that Tokina is also Kenko does nothing to clarify the situation.

06-17-2018, 09:47 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
As far as I know, it's the same lens. Exactly what the development arrangements were I have no idea. Same with the Tokina 10-17 and the DA 10-17. Just the fact that Tokina is also Kenko does nothing to clarify the situation.
Yeah many Japanese ventures have interlocking relationships and own stocks of each other.
The story I know is a licensed optical design, while build and coatings were done separatly by each company.
06-17-2018, 01:07 PM - 1 Like   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
Yeah many Japanese ventures have interlocking relationships and own stocks of each other.
The story I know is a licensed optical design, while build and coatings were done separatly by each company.
Yep. All licensed from Pentax to Tokina except the 12-24 which was licensed from Tokina to Pentax. I'm talking about blueprints and nothing else of course.
06-17-2018, 01:25 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Yep. All licensed from Pentax to Tokina except the 12-24 which was licensed from Tokina to Pentax. I'm talking about blueprints and nothing else of course.
Yup, that was my understanding as well

06-17-2018, 02:37 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
Little trick - maybe you already know it.
To put a screw in without risking of ruining it, slowly start screwing it in the wrong direction (counterclockwise), until you hear the "clock" of it dropping one thread, then screw it normally.
This way it will be in the optimum position, lined up with the threads on the hole.


Awesome !
Iíll have to use that trick for my lenses filters , thanks a ton mate !
06-17-2018, 02:48 PM - 1 Like   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by DimC Quote
Awesome !
I’ll have to use that trick for my lenses filters , thanks a ton mate !
You're welcome!
Yeah, I use it on violin bows screws, so... everything threaded, really!
06-17-2018, 08:59 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
My familiarity with Tokina is wiht the 20-35, reputed to be the same as the Pentax 20-35 by some
Not the same lens.

The Pentax (which I have) is f4, the Tokina is variable aperture.

Someone once pointed out through the names of directors or company addresses or some such that there must have been common financial interests in Pentax, Tokina and Kenko by Hoya.
06-17-2018, 09:18 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
If they can sell the design to others and make more money, that would probably be a sound businesses strategy. A super sharp 50 1.4 is already available in all other major mounts, so it's not like doing so would cost them their own customers.
Plus the Pentax variant will be able to make use of the IBIS in the Pentax bodies. the Canon and Nikon variants will not.. so that is one plus if someone values the IS aspect.

06-17-2018, 09:18 PM   #39
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THK was tokino Hoya kenko until 2011? now kenko tokina. So lots of cross over.
06-17-2018, 09:59 PM - 1 Like   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
My familiarity with Tokina is wiht the 20-35, reputed to be the same as the Pentax 20-35 by some,


The FA 20-35 has 10 elements in 8 groups & 58mm thread.


The Tokina 20-35 3.5/4.5 has 13 elements in 11 groups & 77mm thread.


The Tokina 20-35 2.8 has 15 elements in 11 groups & 77mm thread.


They are totally different lenses.
06-18-2018, 09:46 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by krazykat Quote
The FA 20-35 has 10 elements in 8 groups & 58mm thread.


The Tokina 20-35 3.5/4.5 has 13 elements in 11 groups & 77mm thread.


The Tokina 20-35 2.8 has 15 elements in 11 groups & 77mm thread.


They are totally different lenses.
Wide angle zooms is something they do really well.

I own their 17-35 f4 in Canon mount.

06-18-2018, 10:28 AM - 2 Likes   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by BROO Quote
I am having some trouble understanding the strategy in place with Ricoh developing a new high grade D FA* 50 mm lens and then allowing Tokina to release a Canon and Nikon equivalent in their new Opera line.

Initially, I thought Pentax were trying to tempt Canon and Nikon users to the Pentax brand by developing a new range of high class glass that is as good or better than the Sigma Art series. With the Tokina Opera announcement, it would appear as though Pentax are only trying to satisfy the K-1 users, with the costs being ameliorated by on selling the design to Tokina?

Is it possible that Ricoh are targeting a larger slice of the international DSLR lens (Sigma Art Series)market by having some kind of joint venture with Tokina in both the development and manufacture of this line of lenses?

I would be interested in any positive input from members in discussing this and hopefully enlightening me on the strategies involved.
IMO you're thinking of solving a different problem than Ricoh Imaging.
You're thinking about making the D FA* 50mm f/1.4 unique to Pentax, as a way of "tempting Canon and Nikon users to the Pentax brand. But, I think there would be only a few converts because of that; how many said, "I'd like to jump ship to the system with the best 50mm ever"?

Ricoh Imaging is trying to solve a more serious issue: the lens not existing at all (which was true, at the moment they decided to partner with Tokina again). This is a high-end product, expensive to make; it must be sold at a reasonable price (which we'll consider too high anyway) and in very low numbers. The partnership with Tokina was their solution to make it possible.

Ricoh Imaging is not trying to make an USP from this lens; but to strengthen the K-mount FF line into a much more compelling proposition. This will happen despite - or rather with the help of - partnerships.
06-18-2018, 11:19 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
IMO you're thinking of solving a different problem than Ricoh Imaging.
You're thinking about making the D FA* 50mm f/1.4 unique to Pentax, as a way of "tempting Canon and Nikon users to the Pentax brand. But, I think there would be only a few converts because of that; how many said, "I'd like to jump ship to the system with the best 50mm ever"?

Ricoh Imaging is trying to solve a more serious issue: the lens not existing at all (which was true, at the moment they decided to partner with Tokina again). This is a high-end product, expensive to make; it must be sold at a reasonable price (which we'll consider too high anyway) and in very low numbers. The partnership with Tokina was their solution to make it possible.

Ricoh Imaging is not trying to make an USP from this lens; but to strengthen the K-mount FF line into a much more compelling proposition. This will happen despite - or rather with the help of - partnerships.
Honestly, I don't think even if DFA 50 1.4 would be the best lens out there, people in other systems will still think Sigma art 50 and Otus 50 are better, just because marketing efforts by Sigma and Zeiss are probably more significant than what Pentax can offer.
06-18-2018, 11:35 AM   #44
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It's kind of cute, really; if they won't come over to use the 50 1.4 in its native k-mount format, maybe they'll buy it from Tokina and not buy some high-end 50 from Canon & Nikon. A bit like "If you can't join 'em, beat 'em".

I'd rather see more market share for Pentax but this seems like a nice Plan B. Ricoh working with Tokina and Tamron in this way, now and then, seems cool in my book.
06-18-2018, 12:11 PM   #45
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If Pentax didn't come out with a fast FF 50mm lens, people would complain & say: "Why hasn't Pentax come out with a fast FF 50mm prime? If they dont come out with one #PentaxIsDOOOOOMED".

The fact they're coming out with one people will still complain & say: "It's overpopulated with 50mm primes! It won't sale well! #PentaxIsDOOOOOMED!"
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