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06-18-2018, 03:49 PM - 1 Like   #46
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So no matter what happens, naysayers will be naysayers.

06-18-2018, 04:33 PM - 3 Likes   #47
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They'll just be licencing the optical design no? Tokina will make their own lens barrel, AF, etc? So when the outer casing of the Pentax version is hand carved by pixies using the finest unicorn horn and the Tokina version is made out of some kind of crappy plastic, people will still flock to the Pentax. Jokes on Tokina.
06-18-2018, 06:40 PM - 1 Like   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by awscreo Quote
Honestly, I don't think even if DFA 50 1.4 would be the best lens out there, people in other systems will still think Sigma art 50 and Otus 50 are better, just because marketing efforts by Sigma and Zeiss are probably more significant than what Pentax can offer.
You are thinking several quarters down the road. Pentax is thinking several years down the road. There is a sequence of releases; lenses, cameras, a few accessories, in three formats, planned over the next number of years - but the number is larger than any of us imagines.

Pentax is different. They simply donít march to the same drummer as Canon, NIkon and Sony. We must contrast rather than compare Pentax with the others - and embrace the contrasts,
06-18-2018, 07:29 PM - 4 Likes   #49
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Yep. It least I can still use my beautiful, 25 year old 85/1.4 while I wait patiently for the DFA* primes







06-18-2018, 08:14 PM - 1 Like   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
You are thinking several quarters down the road. Pentax is thinking several years down the road. There is a sequence of releases; lenses, cameras, a few accessories, in three formats, planned over the next number of years - but the number is larger than any of us imagines.

Pentax is different. They simply donít march to the same drummer as Canon, NIkon and Sony. We must contrast rather than compare Pentax with the others - and embrace the contrasts,
I was just agreeing that release of this lens not gonna attract a ton of people, because there are already few lenses available for their systems that are highly praised by mainstream. When dfa system is fully built, that would be a much stronger attraction in my opinion (which agrees with the long term strategy you suggested).
06-18-2018, 08:15 PM - 2 Likes   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
This.
They need money and licensing is just another way. Pentax system loses a little exclusivity but, as Adam said, nothing major.
The other aspect of this is that Canon or Nikon loses a sale every time one of their shooters buys the Tokina version of the Pentax. Maybe that's not quite eating their lunch, but it means revenue to Ricoh's Pentax arm, which would otherwise be going to a competitor, and therefore helps in a small way to redress the sales (im)balance.
06-18-2018, 08:28 PM - 4 Likes   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
They'll just be licencing the optical design no? Tokina will make their own lens barrel, AF, etc? So when the outer casing of the Pentax version is hand carved by pixies using the finest unicorn horn and the Tokina version is made out of some kind of crappy plastic, people will still flock to the Pentax. Jokes on Tokina.
I posted about this some time ago, but I had both in my hands at CP+ and both lenses are very similar. However, the barrel of the Tokina feels more plasticky and smooth, compared to the Pentax, which feels more like other Pentaxes. I wouldnít say either felt cheap though.

One thing to keep in mind is that Pentax worked with Tokina before, and during that time they were able to produce a lot of high quality lenses in a short time. If working with Tokina allows them to do that again, I donít think many will be complaining.
06-18-2018, 09:02 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by disconnekt Quote
If Pentax didn't come out with a fast FF 50mm lens, people would complain & say: "Why hasn't Pentax come out with a fast FF 50mm prime? If they dont come out with one #PentaxIsDOOOOOMED".

The fact they're coming out with one people will still complain & say: "It's overpopulated with 50mm primes! It won't sale well! #PentaxIsDOOOOOMED!"
Amen to all of this. This lens should be pretty amazing, end of story.

---------- Post added 06-18-18 at 09:04 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Yep. It least I can still use my beautiful, 25 year old 85/1.4 while I wait patiently for the DFA* primes




Do you just know all these beautiful people to take professional quality photos of them?

Great shots!

---------- Post added 06-18-18 at 09:06 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
One thing to keep in mind is that Pentax worked with Tokina before, and during that time they were able to produce a lot of high quality lenses in a short time. If working with Tokina allows them to do that again, I donít think many will be complaining.
Very true. If we get a prime holy trinity for the FF crowd as they have been asking, it would be fantastic.

---------- Post added 06-18-18 at 09:08 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
The other aspect of this is that Canon or Nikon loses a sale every time one of their shooters buys the Tokina version of the Pentax. Maybe that's not quite eating their lunch, but it means revenue to Ricoh's Pentax arm, which would otherwise be going to a competitor, and therefore helps in a small way to redress the sales (im)balance.

Yup, all very true.

06-18-2018, 09:12 PM - 2 Likes   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by gm4life Quote
Do you just know all these beautiful people?
Flattery will get you everywhere

The first two are from the aftermath of my daughter's engagement party last year. She's the redhead.
The last one is my other daughter getting ready to be Maid of Honour at the subsequent wedding a couple of months ago.
06-18-2018, 11:19 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Pentax is different. They simply donít march to the same drummer as Canon, NIkon and Sony. We must contrast rather than compare Pentax with the others - and embrace the contrasts,
Well Thom Hogan just wrote that Pentax was a follower.......and the K-1 is a late to the party fullframe using much the same as others.

QuoteQuote:
Follower, and getting slower at doing so.
Who Leads, Who Follows, Who Wins? | DSLRBodies | Thom Hogan
06-18-2018, 11:51 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
When your market share is 2% it's unlikely anything you do to spread your development costs is going to help you. After all do you want to sell to the whole camera market or 2% of the market?
all said!
06-19-2018, 12:13 AM - 1 Like   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Well Thom Hogan just wrote that Pentax was a follower.......and the K-1 is a late to the party fullframe using much the same as others.
He's applying conventional wisdom, and you can't do that with Pentax. There are plenty of times where Pentax was ahead of the game but the technology wasn't good enough - like AF and FF DSLR. They also pioneered zoom compacts and weather sealing - not to mention IBIS in DSLRs (and let's not forget lens coatings) - the trouble with being a small player, now, is that everyone takes your good ideas before you can cash in on them. But Ricoh are no Hoya,
06-19-2018, 12:38 AM - 1 Like   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
The other aspect of this is that Canon or Nikon loses a sale every time one of their shooters buys the Tokina version of the Pentax. Maybe that's not quite eating their lunch, but it means revenue to Ricoh's Pentax arm, which would otherwise be going to a competitor, and therefore helps in a small way to redress the sales (im)balance.
... there's a popular saying in Tuscany that fits this scenario... "pisciare in mare sperando che vada di fÚri" - to pi$$ at sea hoping to make it overflow
06-19-2018, 01:02 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
He's applying conventional wisdom, and you can't do that with Pentax. There are plenty of times where Pentax was ahead of the game but the technology wasn't good enough - like AF and FF DSLR. They also pioneered zoom compacts and weather sealing - not to mention IBIS in DSLRs (and let's not forget lens coatings) - the trouble with being a small player, now, is that everyone takes your good ideas before you can cash in on them. But Ricoh are no Hoya,
So they did with in-dslr retractable flash (SFX/SF7) if I remember correctly.
06-19-2018, 01:15 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
I posted about this some time ago, but I had both in my hands at CP+ and both lenses are very similar. However, the barrel of the Tokina feels more plasticky and smooth, compared to the Pentax, which feels more like other Pentaxes. I wouldnít say either felt cheap though.

One thing to keep in mind is that Pentax worked with Tokina before, and during that time they were able to produce a lot of high quality lenses in a short time. If working with Tokina allows them to do that again, I donít think many will be complaining.
I guess that's in line with the expectations.
To properly share costs, the Pentax and Tokina versions would be as close as possible. The design is that of a solid, high-end lens - but that doesn't mean Tokina can't/won't use cost saving measures, including the choice of cheaper materials.

Yeah, they managed no less than 8 lenses in 2008 - but only 3 were part of the Pentax-Tokina sharing agreement. Should we hope Pentax is preparing for another boost in new lens introductions?
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