Pentax D FA* 50mm f1.4 and Tokina Opera 50mm f1.4

**ffking** · 06-19-2018, 01:45 AM

Originally posted by thibs

So they did with in-dslr retractable flash (SFX/SF7) if I remember correctly.

I think you're right

**Rondec** · 06-19-2018, 02:32 AM

Pentax is licensing the optical formula to Tokina. This will produce some guaranteed revenue. It is possible that Pentax is a bit concerned about how many Pentaxians will be willing to buy a new lens at this price point and any additional revenue they can generate will help cover the R and D.

That said, the lenses will be different. Different coatings, different sealing. Pentax's will probably be a bit better in these respects, but certainly I don't think this is going to swing sales of cameras one way or the other. Few people would seriously be considering a K mount camera and suddenly decide to buy a Nikon instead because Tokina has a 50mm lens that is similar to the DFA *50.

Reed · 06-19-2018, 03:06 AM

Actually I would not be so sure about coatings. Tokina lenses to date are very prone to flares and ghosting- that is their weak spot. Part of the deal might be sharing the coating tech- maybe not the top of the line from Ricoh, but definitely an update for Tokina.

**Rondec** · 06-19-2018, 03:12 AM

Originally posted by Reed

Actually I would not be so sure about coatings. Tokina lenses to date are very prone to flares and ghosting- that is their weak spot. Part of the deal might be sharing the coating tech- maybe not the top of the line from Ricoh, but definitely an update for Tokina.

If it is similar to past deals then it is just the optical formula. I would think if Pentax was going to give Tokina the coatings they would just produce the lens for them, like Tamron is doing for them with the DFA 15-30 and 24-70, which by all accounts do not have Pentax coatings on them.

Kunzite · 06-19-2018, 03:15 AM

I really don't think that Pentax would give Tokina the technology - the D FA* 50mm will most likely have the best Pentax coatings to date - and I doubt they'll use their capacity to process lens elements for Tokina.

**RobA_Oz** · 06-19-2018, 03:16 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by LensBeginner

... there's a popular saying in Tuscany that fits this scenario... "pisciare in mare sperando che vada di fòri" - to pi$$ at sea hoping to make it overflow

A more comforting English equivalent would be the lady bather saying “every little bit helps”.

LensBeginner · 06-19-2018, 03:34 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by RobA_Oz

A more comforting English equivalent would be the lady bather saying “every little bit helps”.

...that half-full glass...

**Douglas_of_Sweden** · 06-19-2018, 04:14 PM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by BROO

Is it possible that Ricoh have entered into a strategic alliance with Tokina where they jointly share development costs and then target the larger market by developing a range of lenses to rival Sigma Art?

Imagine if Tokina could take a significant share of this market segment. I think the quality of the Opera lens will be good if the images taken with the D FA*50 mm are anything to go by. IMGP0214 | CHI TSUNG PIN | Flickr
I also find it interesting that Ricoh have a fisheye zoom lens on the road map. Didn't they jointly develop a ASP-C fish eye in the past?

The original full frame fish-eye zoom F 17-35mm was developed by Pentax lens designer Jun Hirokawa, patented in 1998.
The APS-C fisheye zoom DA 10-17mm was designed by the same Jun Hirokawa and his colleague at Pentax, Mr. Takayuki Ito, patented in 2008. Tokina, nor any other company helped with the development. That was 2 years before Hoya "retired" Jun Hirokawa.

So it is something of a tradition by Pentax to have a fisheye zoom.

For sources including patents, see through the viewfinder: Known Pentax lens designs and designers

BROO · 06-19-2018, 06:52 PM

Thanks for that good resource for those who are interested.

Originally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden

The APS-C fisheye zoom DA 10-17mm was designed by the same Jun Hirokawa and his colleague at Pentax, Mr. Takayuki Ito, patented in 2008. Tokina, nor any other company helped with the development. That was 2 years before Hoya "retired" Jun Hirokawa.

So it is something of a tradition by Pentax to have a fisheye zoom.

I guess you will have to correct the Pentax forums review?

"The SMC Pentax-DA 10-17mm F3.5-4.5 Fish-Eye ED [IF], which was released in early 2006, is the first and only Pentax fish-eye lens designed exclusively for APS-C format Pentax K-mount cameras. This is one of the lenses that Pentax developed in conjunction with Tokina, who currently offer the same lens for Canon and Nikon."
Just one thing. Is it unusual for a lens to be patented some time after its introduction or is the PF review incorrect on the introduction date too?

gm4life · 06-19-2018, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by Sandy Hancock

Flattery will get you everywhere

The first two are from the aftermath of my daughter's engagement party last year. She's the redhead.
The last one is my other daughter getting ready to be Maid of Honour at the subsequent wedding a couple of months ago.

Well as always Sandy the shots are impressive and the subjects equally beautiful.

True about the flattery...

thibs · 06-19-2018, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by BROO

Thanks for that good resource for those who are interested.

I guess you will have to correct the Pentax forums review?

"The SMC Pentax-DA 10-17mm F3.5-4.5 Fish-Eye ED [IF], which was released in early 2006, is the first and only Pentax fish-eye lens designed exclusively for APS-C format Pentax K-mount cameras. This is one of the lenses that Pentax developed in conjunction with Tokina, who currently offer the same lens for Canon and Nikon."
Just one thing. Is it unusual for a lens to be patented some time after its introduction or is the PF review incorrect on the introduction date too?

It was licensed to Tokina.
Patents are clear enough I believe.
sTill, without the TOkina collaboration this lens might not have been developed, that's the real meaning of this sentence IMO.

Kunzite · 06-19-2018, 11:49 PM

Without the collaboration with Tokina, this lens might've been a different - lesser - product.

thibs · 06-20-2018, 12:30 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Without the collaboration with Tokina, this lens might've been a different - lesser - product.

Or nothing at all but a patent never made to a real product.

Mistral75 · 06-20-2018, 12:31 AM

Originally posted by BROO

(...)
Just one thing. Is it unusual for a lens to be patented some time after its introduction or is the PF review incorrect on the introduction date too?

Yes it's usual. Patent requests are filed quite late in the development process, when more and more contractors get involved and the company wants to protect its intellectual property against potential leaks. Patents are granted even later on.

**ffking** · 06-20-2018, 01:08 AM

As I mentioned in a previous thread, I welcome this strategy by Ricoh - not only does it reclaim some of the development costs of the lens, but it puts a version of the lens in the hands of other system users who will see the quality that Pentax offers. Of course they won't convert to Pentax in their droves as a result - in fact they have one less reason not to - but it should help restore respect for Pentax in the wider photographic community - or at least among those ho bother to discover the truth. The only downside will be when people complain that the Pentax version is more expensive and doesn't even have image stabilisation and all that stuff and use that as something to beat Pentax with rather than celebrating a great lens.

06-19-2018, 06:52 PM	#69
BROO Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 655 Original Poster	Thanks for that good resource for those who are interested. Originally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden The APS-C fisheye zoom DA 10-17mm was designed by the same Jun Hirokawa and his colleague at Pentax, Mr. Takayuki Ito, patented in 2008. Tokina, nor any other company helped with the development. That was 2 years before Hoya "retired" Jun Hirokawa. So it is something of a tradition by Pentax to have a fisheye zoom. I guess you will have to correct the Pentax forums review? "The SMC Pentax-DA 10-17mm F3.5-4.5 Fish-Eye ED [IF], which was released in early 2006, is the first and only Pentax fish-eye lens designed exclusively for APS-C format Pentax K-mount cameras. This is one of the lenses that Pentax developed in conjunction with Tokina, who currently offer the same lens for Canon and Nikon." Just one thing. Is it unusual for a lens to be patented some time after its introduction or is the PF review incorrect on the introduction date too? Last edited by BROO; 06-19-2018 at 07:18 PM.

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06-19-2018, 01:45 AM	#61
ffking Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 6,038	Originally posted by thibs So they did with in-dslr retractable flash (SFX/SF7) if I remember correctly. I think you're right

06-19-2018, 02:32 AM	#62
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,652	Pentax is licensing the optical formula to Tokina. This will produce some guaranteed revenue. It is possible that Pentax is a bit concerned about how many Pentaxians will be willing to buy a new lens at this price point and any additional revenue they can generate will help cover the R and D. That said, the lenses will be different. Different coatings, different sealing. Pentax's will probably be a bit better in these respects, but certainly I don't think this is going to swing sales of cameras one way or the other. Few people would seriously be considering a K mount camera and suddenly decide to buy a Nikon instead because Tokina has a 50mm lens that is similar to the DFA *50.

06-19-2018, 03:06 AM	#63
Reed Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Warsaw Photos: Gallery Posts: 638	Actually I would not be so sure about coatings. Tokina lenses to date are very prone to flares and ghosting- that is their weak spot. Part of the deal might be sharing the coating tech- maybe not the top of the line from Ricoh, but definitely an update for Tokina.

06-19-2018, 03:12 AM	#64
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,652	Originally posted by Reed Actually I would not be so sure about coatings. Tokina lenses to date are very prone to flares and ghosting- that is their weak spot. Part of the deal might be sharing the coating tech- maybe not the top of the line from Ricoh, but definitely an update for Tokina. If it is similar to past deals then it is just the optical formula. I would think if Pentax was going to give Tokina the coatings they would just produce the lens for them, like Tamron is doing for them with the DFA 15-30 and 24-70, which by all accounts do not have Pentax coatings on them.

06-19-2018, 03:15 AM	#65
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	I really don't think that Pentax would give Tokina the technology - the D FA* 50mm will most likely have the best Pentax coatings to date - and I doubt they'll use their capacity to process lens elements for Tokina.

06-19-2018, 03:16 AM - 2 Likes	#66
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,196	Originally posted by LensBeginner ... there's a popular saying in Tuscany that fits this scenario... "pisciare in mare sperando che vada di fòri" - to pi$$ at sea hoping to make it overflow A more comforting English equivalent would be the lady bather saying “every little bit helps”.

06-19-2018, 03:34 AM - 1 Like	#67
LensBeginner Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,696	Originally posted by RobA_Oz A more comforting English equivalent would be the lady bather saying “every little bit helps”. ...that half-full glass...

06-19-2018, 04:14 PM - 3 Likes	#68
Douglas_of_Sweden Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Stockholm Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,374	Originally posted by BROO Is it possible that Ricoh have entered into a strategic alliance with Tokina where they jointly share development costs and then target the larger market by developing a range of lenses to rival Sigma Art? Imagine if Tokina could take a significant share of this market segment. I think the quality of the Opera lens will be good if the images taken with the D FA*50 mm are anything to go by. IMGP0214 \| CHI TSUNG PIN \| Flickr I also find it interesting that Ricoh have a fisheye zoom lens on the road map. Didn't they jointly develop a ASP-C fish eye in the past? The original full frame fish-eye zoom F 17-35mm was developed by Pentax lens designer Jun Hirokawa, patented in 1998. The APS-C fisheye zoom DA 10-17mm was designed by the same Jun Hirokawa and his colleague at Pentax, Mr. Takayuki Ito, patented in 2008. Tokina, nor any other company helped with the development. That was 2 years before Hoya "retired" Jun Hirokawa. So it is something of a tradition by Pentax to have a fisheye zoom. For sources including patents, see through the viewfinder: Known Pentax lens designs and designers

06-19-2018, 08:18 PM	#70
gm4life Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 602	Originally posted by Sandy Hancock Flattery will get you everywhere The first two are from the aftermath of my daughter's engagement party last year. She's the redhead. The last one is my other daughter getting ready to be Maid of Honour at the subsequent wedding a couple of months ago. Well as always Sandy the shots are impressive and the subjects equally beautiful. True about the flattery...

06-19-2018, 10:29 PM	#71
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by BROO Thanks for that good resource for those who are interested. I guess you will have to correct the Pentax forums review? "The SMC Pentax-DA 10-17mm F3.5-4.5 Fish-Eye ED [IF], which was released in early 2006, is the first and only Pentax fish-eye lens designed exclusively for APS-C format Pentax K-mount cameras. This is one of the lenses that Pentax developed in conjunction with Tokina, who currently offer the same lens for Canon and Nikon." Just one thing. Is it unusual for a lens to be patented some time after its introduction or is the PF review incorrect on the introduction date too? It was licensed to Tokina. Patents are clear enough I believe. sTill, without the TOkina collaboration this lens might not have been developed, that's the real meaning of this sentence IMO.

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06-19-2018, 11:49 PM	#72
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Without the collaboration with Tokina, this lens might've been a different - lesser - product.

06-20-2018, 12:30 AM	#73
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by Kunzite Without the collaboration with Tokina, this lens might've been a different - lesser - product. Or nothing at all but a patent never made to a real product.

06-20-2018, 12:31 AM	#74
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by BROO (...) Just one thing. Is it unusual for a lens to be patented some time after its introduction or is the PF review incorrect on the introduction date too? Yes it's usual. Patent requests are filed quite late in the development process, when more and more contractors get involved and the company wants to protect its intellectual property against potential leaks. Patents are granted even later on.

06-20-2018, 01:08 AM	#75
ffking Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 6,038	As I mentioned in a previous thread, I welcome this strategy by Ricoh - not only does it reclaim some of the development costs of the lens, but it puts a version of the lens in the hands of other system users who will see the quality that Pentax offers. Of course they won't convert to Pentax in their droves as a result - in fact they have one less reason not to - but it should help restore respect for Pentax in the wider photographic community - or at least among those ho bother to discover the truth. The only downside will be when people complain that the Pentax version is more expensive and doesn't even have image stabilisation and all that stuff and use that as something to beat Pentax with rather than celebrating a great lens.