[RonHendriks1966]

They maybe just get the same lens parts as Pentax, or from Pentax.

---------- Post added 22-09-18 at 09:59 ----------



Ricoh can also make money on it. They buy blanks lenses. They go true their own coating fabric and sell them to Tokina.

Your reality based comments are always negative. You used to enjoy Pentax related gear, but I never saw you post anything about how great the K-1 or the DFA 50, or DFA *70-200 products are. Only about how you expect them to be delivered late and not perform well. The fact that Pentax is getting paid for every Tokina lens produced is not mentioned by you (which should add some revenue to Pentax's coffers), only the fact that Tokina, as a third party is priced a little cheaper.

Your dose of reality requires an antidepressant to accompany it.

Uhhhhhh

[lytrytyr]

Attention All Members! ... IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ! - PentaxForums.com

[RobA_Oz]

Not even a hint that the Tokina Opera 50mm f1.4 might have an origin outside of Kenko-Tokiner, in this Photography Blog article.

Not sure if that’s a good thing or a bad thing.

[Ian Stuart Forsyth]

The fact that Pentax is getting paid for every Tokina lens produced is not mentioned by you (which should add some revenue to Pentax's coffers), only the fact that Tokina, as a third party is priced a little cheaper.

We really don't know what deal was struck with Tokina and Pentax, it could be a very simple cooperation of Hoya supplying the lens blanks, glass formulation, grinding and polishing at a lower cost to Pentax. This could benefit pentax in several way one of the more important aspects of this is Hoya has larger resource teams that know how to manufacture lens elements and I a pretty sure that pentaxs design team heavily relied on Hoyas engineers( that designed the different glass formulas) used in the optical design of the lens groups.
I have a feeling this lens is more of a co-op in design than ever seen in between pentax and tokina than before, in the past is was more of a patent swap with lenses being manufactured very differently and with very different looking lenses.

[Rondec]

We really don't know what deal was struck with Tokina and Pentax, it could be a very simple cooperation of Hoya supplying the lens blanks, glass formulation, grinding and polishing at a lower cost to Pentax. This could benefit pentax in several way one of the more important aspects of this is Hoya has larger resource teams that know how to manufacture lens elements and I a pretty sure that pentaxs design team heavily relied on Hoyas engineers( that designed the different glass formulas) used in the optical design of the lens groups.
I have a feeling this lens is more of a co-op in design than ever seen in between pentax and tokina than before, in the past is was more of a patent swap with lenses being manufactured very differently and with very different looking lenses.

You've said that a lot, but once again, all indications are that Pentax designed the lens, not some type of cooperative thing. Pentax holds the patent and released their lens (and showed it) multiple months before Tokina's was available. As far as the deal goes, something is coming back that benefits Pentax.

I suppose it doesn't matter, it just seems really important to a number of people to downplay Pentax's design of new lenses. You and I suppose others, believe that clearly if they have a nice lens that stands out, they must have had help from Tokina or Hoya. I just think Pentax has come a long way over the years and having used the DFA *70-200 it surprises me not a bit that they would design something this nice.

[Mistral75]

(...) Pentax holds the patent (...)

Do you have a link or a patent reference? I would be very interested in having a look at it.

[Ian Stuart Forsyth]

I suppose it doesn't matter, it just seems really important to a number of people to downplay Pentax's design of new lenses.

You think of it as downplaying, where as I see it as a way to use the strengths of Hoya ( one of the largest suppler of optical glass) from their knowledge of the properties of their glass blanks and the formulation in those blanks, to their capacity to produce glass model elements to the fabrication grinding and polishing of the lenses. This gives Pentax the ability to produce a competitive product and frankly more interested in the final product and the final cost of the item over the interests that it has to be totally a purist Pentax product.

---------- Post added 09-23-2018 at 12:38 AM ----------

Do you have a link or a patent reference? I would be very interested in having a look at it.

Even if Pentax holds the patent this still would not tell us if there is some co-op of patent swaps to a the co-op in the design of the lens and fabrication of those lenses.

Take Sony many people don't realise how much of Nikon design team and engineers gave Sony help in the setup of the fabrication of their sensor, from the photolithography and steppers for such things as BSI and specially optimized for MEMS-type applications. This is a good thing as it benefits everyone and is a co-op of designing and lets everyone be competitive, I am sure that Nikon does not hold any patents on sensors that Sony manufacture but I am sure they hold several patents on services that they provide to Sony. Just as Hoya holds patents on products that pentax are using in these lenses.

[Zygonyx]

I bet DPR will give it a better review than the Pentax got. 😒

That will be another easy factchecking opportunity to see how much they are biaised….

[thibs]

I'm not convinced at all Hoya has anything to do in part of this deal.
Kenko-Tokina AFAICT, is privately owned by some owners of Hoya but there's no direct link between the companies.

[RonHendriks1966]

Hoya is the biggest player in production of blanks, lens elements used in lenses.

[MMVIII]

Hoya is the biggest player in production of blanks, lens elements used in lenses.

Thank you. Whatever that means.
I think this discussion is bordering absurdity. In a globalised industry like this many partners are more or less involved in the production of goods. Either you have some clear evidence on the amount and character of the contribution of one partner or not. I don't see any here, any speculation, if not for the sheer fun here, is either useless or has an agenda. Whatever applies.

[RonHendriks1966]

Thank you. Whatever that means.

When you look at how this lens is set up with lens elements In groups.

https://tokinalens.com/uploads/images/catalog/product/opera_50mm_F14_FF/opera50_constr.jpg

Those lens elements don't grow on trees......someone makes them and that is probably Hoya.

[D1N0]

Wow the lens has elements that are grouped. That must mean somebody makes them.... shocking.

[clackers]

Your reality based comments are always negative. You used to enjoy Pentax related gear, but I never saw you post anything about how great the K-1 or the DFA 50, or DFA *70-200 products are. Only about how you expect them to be delivered late and not perform well. The fact that Pentax is getting paid for every Tokina lens produced is not mentioned by you (which should add some revenue to Pentax's coffers), only the fact that Tokina, as a third party is priced a little cheaper.

Your dose of reality requires an antidepressant to accompany it.

Since opinions are apparently to be respected, I agree full heartedly with yours, Rondec!

[D1N0]

Asahiman (Asahi man) on dpreview about the lens:

It's developed by the MASAKAZU SAORI optical team.
Chief designer of Pentax lenses.
Also made the *70-200.
Best regards