Pentax K1 Mk2 vs everyone, come in 6th!

Reed · 07-31-2018, 07:55 AM

Originally posted by ThorSanchez

How many professional news or sports photographers use SOOC JPEGs, AND never touch the in-camera settings to adjust the JPEGs to their liking? I never shoot just JPG, but if had to I'd definitely do some work with the camera settings to make sure they suited my preferences.

How many of them use Pentax?
Still- SOOC JPEG for pentax defaults are confusing when compared to other brands, especially the set into "bright" mode. I have pointed it to at least two review sites, they ware not aware that Pentax cameras are not set for "neutral" by default. Things most of reviewers omit is also the sharpening setting that with pentax have a negative scale, so you can soften your pictures, not only sharpen the jpeg file. If I remember correctly with Nikon you go from 0(No sharpening) to 9, with Canon fron 0(No sharpening) to 7, with Pentax you go from 0(neutral) to +5 or -5 steps of sharpen/soften for jpeg- thing that for example Lenstips site seems to be ignoring and always set the lowest possible value that in this case mean software softening the output file.

texandrews · 07-31-2018, 09:03 AM - **1 Like**

is how sloppy testing really is. People look at the "results" of the test, and think they are getting good data. You're only ever getting good data if the testing is set up correctly. In the case of cameras today, if you ignore the differences in the way the manufacturers set things up, and don't adjust for it, your whole test is compromised.

I feel like a lot of this testing methodology is still living in the film era, when Kodachrome was Kodachrome was Kodachrome, no matter what camera it was run through. Even then you had lens concerns.

Sigh....this just seems so straightforward to me. Why can't anyone get it right? Even some engineers are getting it wrong, because they want to trust the black and white of the data and not check for the human foibles. Humans are doing this testing. Check that first!!!!

reh321 · 07-31-2018, 09:22 AM - **1 Like**

If Pentax were last, everyone would be all over it, and talking about "what terrible cameras Pentax makes!", and calling those who point out issues "fanbois"

Why can't we celebrate good news, no matter how weak it is???

texandrews · 07-31-2018, 11:29 AM

Originally posted by reh321

Why can't we celebrate good news, no matter how weak it is???

Well, I think because none of us are in Pentax because it is "weak" , and weak praise is just the flip side of inappropriate/inaccurate trashing. I'm in Pentax because of its excellence in the areas that are important to me....And I've spent my money that way, as my gear list can show(it's not even up to date...I'll fix that now.). Pentax isn't very good at some things, is terrific in others, and of course we all know what a great value it is overall---I think pretty much the best, with the sole exception of the A7III by Sony perhaps (although that depends on how you score it). I think clear eyed , accurate, and balanced appraisals show the brand off very well.

builttospill · 07-31-2018, 12:01 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by rawr

Why PNG and not TIFF?

Because it's not 1993 anymore.

reh321 · 07-31-2018, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by texandrews

Well, I think because none of us are in Pentax because it is "weak" , and weak praise is just the flip side of inappropriate/inaccurate trashing. I'm in Pentax because of its excellence in the areas that are important to me....And I've spent my money that way, as my gear list can show(it's not even up to date...I'll fix that now.). Pentax isn't very good at some things, is terrific in others, and of course we all know what a great value it is overall---I think pretty much the best, with the sole exception of the A7III by Sony perhaps (although that depends on how you score it). I think clear eyed , accurate, and balanced appraisals show the brand off very well.

And this is an area that is important to me - color accuracy is more important to me than is almost anything else. I don't take photos of guys riding bicycles {so I don't need quick AF} and I don't take photos in which roadkill off in the corner is important {so I don't focus on not losing a hair}, but I do try to use SOOC JPEG with as little adjustment as possible. Please don't downgrade my values because yours aren't being addressed.

RonHendriks1966 · 07-31-2018, 01:07 PM

Not all agencies accept RAW images.

Reuters bans freelance RAW photography to boost speed and preserve ?reality' - The Verge

texandrews · 07-31-2018, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by reh321

but I do try to use SOOC JPEG with as little adjustment as possible. Please don't downgrade my values because yours aren't being addressed.

And how was I doing that? I also hope to be using my upgraded K1 (just sent off today) to produce "SOOC jpg's with as little adjustment as possible"....for some of the quick turnaround stuff I need to do now.

I thought we were talking about something else....I quoted it.

reh321 · 07-31-2018, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by texandrews

And how was I doing that? I also hope to be using my upgraded K1 (just sent off today) to produce "SOOC jpg's with as little adjustment as possible"....for some of the quick turnaround stuff I need to do now.

I thought we were talking about something else....I quoted it.

I see "SOOC jpg's with as little adjustment as possible" as being the gist of what they are evaluating.

**ramseybuckeye** · 07-31-2018, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by BigDave

Hey All:

This from PDN, a review of the cameras that gave the best color reproductions, Pentax K1- Mk2 was #6 overall, and of the FF camera, about 4th! Winners were Sony (3 top awards) Fuji (ever see one in the wild?) Leica P&S and one Panasonic (another rare sighting in the wild), one Nikon and one Canon!

Regards,

I've seen quite a few Fujis "in the wild", more and more Sonys, But more Pentax than Panasonics or Leicas. BTW, I saw a pro Canon shooter today with his hood on correctly, but he really is a pro (full time) and a good guy too.

And an interesting article, thanks for sharing

str8talk83 · 07-31-2018, 05:25 PM

I think it’s fine to do a jpeg comparison as long as we are all clear that this is what’s happening. It provides zero benefit to me as a RAW shooter, but can be useful to some. It is tricky to “even out” things because each manufacturer takes their own approach, but even RAW data can show differences for the same reason.

I basically hate SOOC image settings, but that’s just a personal preference.

reh321 · 07-31-2018, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by str8talk83

I think it’s fine to do a jpeg comparison as long as we are all clear that this is what’s happening. It provides zero benefit to me as a RAW shooter, but can be useful to some. It is tricky to “even out” things because each manufacturer takes their own approach, but even RAW data can show differences for the same reason.

I basically hate SOOC image settings, but that’s just a personal preference.

People who want good SOOC images are a subset of all camera purchasers. I believe the 'accelerator' makes most sense for that subset, especially at the K-1 level, so Pentax must be interested in us ..... hearing someone say good things about their implementation is particularly good in that context.

builttospill · 07-31-2018, 07:35 PM

My clients don't know or care if I shoot in RAW or JPEG. They just want the images to look good. I just want a quick turnaround time. I shoot JPEGs and do minimal editing.

MMVIII · 07-31-2018, 11:42 PM - **1 Like**

But there is still a huge difference between jpegs Out of Cam and jpeg Settings out of the Box.
I would assume someone relying on this type of shooting and spending 3k €/$/£ on a camera and lens might have adapted the settings to his likes.

dafbp · 08-01-2018, 06:00 AM

Originally posted by MMVIII

... adapted the settings to his likes.

And that is the big issue. Everybody has different likes, so how can you compare cameras not at their default (out of box) settings? You'd be comparing apples to oranges.
WB can be tuned by the user, with unpredictable results across the spectrum, so not exactly a good way to ascertain a camera's WB versus another.
And the same goes for the rest.

If it's not OOC/OOB, it's a tuning competition. From what's been said here, even RAW gives different results depending on which viewer is used!!!

P.S.:Not picking on you or your reply, it's just that it sums it all up in a small sentence.

07-31-2018, 09:03 AM - 1 Like	#32
texandrews Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Baltimore Photos: Albums Posts: 3,390	Really, what a lot of this points up... is how sloppy testing really is. People look at the "results" of the test, and think they are getting good data. You're only ever getting good data if the testing is set up correctly. In the case of cameras today, if you ignore the differences in the way the manufacturers set things up, and don't adjust for it, your whole test is compromised. I feel like a lot of this testing methodology is still living in the film era, when Kodachrome was Kodachrome was Kodachrome, no matter what camera it was run through. Even then you had lens concerns. Sigh....this just seems so straightforward to me. Why can't anyone get it right? Even some engineers are getting it wrong, because they want to trust the black and white of the data and not check for the human foibles. Humans are doing this testing. Check that first!!!!

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07-31-2018, 07:55 AM	#31
Reed Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Warsaw Photos: Gallery Posts: 638	Originally posted by ThorSanchez How many professional news or sports photographers use SOOC JPEGs, AND never touch the in-camera settings to adjust the JPEGs to their liking? I never shoot just JPG, but if had to I'd definitely do some work with the camera settings to make sure they suited my preferences. How many of them use Pentax? Still- SOOC JPEG for pentax defaults are confusing when compared to other brands, especially the set into "bright" mode. I have pointed it to at least two review sites, they ware not aware that Pentax cameras are not set for "neutral" by default. Things most of reviewers omit is also the sharpening setting that with pentax have a negative scale, so you can soften your pictures, not only sharpen the jpeg file. If I remember correctly with Nikon you go from 0(No sharpening) to 9, with Canon fron 0(No sharpening) to 7, with Pentax you go from 0(neutral) to +5 or -5 steps of sharpen/soften for jpeg- thing that for example Lenstips site seems to be ignoring and always set the lowest possible value that in this case mean software softening the output file.

07-31-2018, 09:22 AM - 1 Like	#33
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	If Pentax were last, everyone would be all over it, and talking about "what terrible cameras Pentax makes!", and calling those who point out issues "fanbois" Why can't we celebrate good news, no matter how weak it is???

07-31-2018, 11:29 AM	#34
texandrews Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Baltimore Photos: Albums Posts: 3,390	Originally posted by reh321 Why can't we celebrate good news, no matter how weak it is??? Well, I think because none of us are in Pentax because it is "weak" , and weak praise is just the flip side of inappropriate/inaccurate trashing. I'm in Pentax because of its excellence in the areas that are important to me....And I've spent my money that way, as my gear list can show(it's not even up to date...I'll fix that now.). Pentax isn't very good at some things, is terrific in others, and of course we all know what a great value it is overall---I think pretty much the best, with the sole exception of the A7III by Sony perhaps (although that depends on how you score it). I think clear eyed , accurate, and balanced appraisals show the brand off very well.

07-31-2018, 12:01 PM - 2 Likes	#35
builttospill Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Utah, Idaho Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,398	Originally posted by rawr Why PNG and not TIFF? Because it's not 1993 anymore.

07-31-2018, 01:03 PM	#36
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by texandrews Well, I think because none of us are in Pentax because it is "weak" , and weak praise is just the flip side of inappropriate/inaccurate trashing. I'm in Pentax because of its excellence in the areas that are important to me....And I've spent my money that way, as my gear list can show(it's not even up to date...I'll fix that now.). Pentax isn't very good at some things, is terrific in others, and of course we all know what a great value it is overall---I think pretty much the best, with the sole exception of the A7III by Sony perhaps (although that depends on how you score it). I think clear eyed , accurate, and balanced appraisals show the brand off very well. And this is an area that is important to me - color accuracy is more important to me than is almost anything else. I don't take photos of guys riding bicycles {so I don't need quick AF} and I don't take photos in which roadkill off in the corner is important {so I don't focus on not losing a hair}, but I do try to use SOOC JPEG with as little adjustment as possible. Please don't downgrade my values because yours aren't being addressed.

07-31-2018, 01:07 PM	#37
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Not all agencies accept RAW images. Reuters bans freelance RAW photography to boost speed and preserve ?reality' - The Verge

07-31-2018, 01:10 PM	#38
texandrews Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Baltimore Photos: Albums Posts: 3,390	Originally posted by reh321 but I do try to use SOOC JPEG with as little adjustment as possible. Please don't downgrade my values because yours aren't being addressed. And how was I doing that? I also hope to be using my upgraded K1 (just sent off today) to produce "SOOC jpg's with as little adjustment as possible"....for some of the quick turnaround stuff I need to do now. I thought we were talking about something else....I quoted it.

07-31-2018, 01:21 PM	#39
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by texandrews And how was I doing that? I also hope to be using my upgraded K1 (just sent off today) to produce "SOOC jpg's with as little adjustment as possible"....for some of the quick turnaround stuff I need to do now. I thought we were talking about something else....I quoted it. I see "SOOC jpg's with as little adjustment as possible" as being the gist of what they are evaluating.

07-31-2018, 03:32 PM	#40
ramseybuckeye Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hampstead, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 17,291	Originally posted by BigDave Hey All: This from PDN, a review of the cameras that gave the best color reproductions, Pentax K1- Mk2 was #6 overall, and of the FF camera, about 4th! Winners were Sony (3 top awards) Fuji (ever see one in the wild?) Leica P&S and one Panasonic (another rare sighting in the wild), one Nikon and one Canon! Regards, I've seen quite a few Fujis "in the wild", more and more Sonys, But more Pentax than Panasonics or Leicas. BTW, I saw a pro Canon shooter today with his hood on correctly, but he really is a pro (full time) and a good guy too. And an interesting article, thanks for sharing

07-31-2018, 05:25 PM	#41
str8talk83 Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Bluffton, SC Photos: Albums Posts: 674	I think it’s fine to do a jpeg comparison as long as we are all clear that this is what’s happening. It provides zero benefit to me as a RAW shooter, but can be useful to some. It is tricky to “even out” things because each manufacturer takes their own approach, but even RAW data can show differences for the same reason. I basically hate SOOC image settings, but that’s just a personal preference.

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07-31-2018, 05:48 PM	#42
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by str8talk83 I think it’s fine to do a jpeg comparison as long as we are all clear that this is what’s happening. It provides zero benefit to me as a RAW shooter, but can be useful to some. It is tricky to “even out” things because each manufacturer takes their own approach, but even RAW data can show differences for the same reason. I basically hate SOOC image settings, but that’s just a personal preference. People who want good SOOC images are a subset of all camera purchasers. I believe the 'accelerator' makes most sense for that subset, especially at the K-1 level, so Pentax must be interested in us ..... hearing someone say good things about their implementation is particularly good in that context.

07-31-2018, 07:35 PM	#43
builttospill Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Utah, Idaho Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,398	My clients don't know or care if I shoot in RAW or JPEG. They just want the images to look good. I just want a quick turnaround time. I shoot JPEGs and do minimal editing.

07-31-2018, 11:42 PM - 1 Like	#44
MMVIII Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: EU Posts: 1,121	But there is still a huge difference between jpegs Out of Cam and jpeg Settings out of the Box. I would assume someone relying on this type of shooting and spending 3k €/$/£ on a camera and lens might have adapted the settings to his likes.

08-01-2018, 06:00 AM	#45
dafbp Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 233	Originally posted by MMVIII ... adapted the settings to his likes. And that is the big issue. Everybody has different likes, so how can you compare cameras not at their default (out of box) settings? You'd be comparing apples to oranges. WB can be tuned by the user, with unpredictable results across the spectrum, so not exactly a good way to ascertain a camera's WB versus another. And the same goes for the rest. If it's not OOC/OOB, it's a tuning competition. From what's been said here, even RAW gives different results depending on which viewer is used!!! P.S.:Not picking on you or your reply, it's just that it sums it all up in a small sentence.