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10-07-2019, 03:28 PM   #1066
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QuoteOriginally posted by y0chang Quote
One funny thing about the DPR article is that the images at least to my eye are the best images I've ever seen out a fast 50mm. The backlit cat image is one of those. So its like DPR talked about all the problems with the lens, yet totally forgot the fact that it creates beautiful images and isn't that the most important thing for a lens to do?
But it's not the most important thing for DPR. For DPR, it must be very fast, as sharp as physically possible wide open, and produce as much micro-contrast as possible while also showing absolutely no PF, no CA of any kind, and perfectly circular bokeh with no onion rings. The lens must also be fully weather sealed, small and light with a long focus throw but with AF motors that can completely rack focus in a microsecond.

It also must be a Sony.

10-07-2019, 04:36 PM   #1067
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QuoteOriginally posted by y0chang Quote
One funny thing about the DPR article is that the images at least to my eye are the best images I've ever seen out a fast 50mm.
How did the fishing go mate? Nah didn't get a bite he he....(closing the lid on the Esky)

That is my way of looking at it. If Pentax is producing some world class equipment and we have good access to it then who cares what any one else thinks? See it as a strategic advantage and go and capitalize buy making some world class images.
10-07-2019, 06:19 PM - 1 Like   #1068
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QuoteOriginally posted by BROO Quote
See it as a strategic advantage and go and capitalize buy making some world class images.
It is not a "strategic advantage" if the customer base of a brand is so small that ages go by between lens releases, you cannot handle the gear in stores anymore, and stupid websites outdo themselves talking about the imminent death of the brand (further reducing its potential customer base).
10-07-2019, 06:56 PM   #1069
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
It is not a "strategic advantage" if the customer base of a brand is so small that ages go by between lens releases, you cannot handle the gear in stores anymore, and stupid websites outdo themselves talking about the imminent death of the brand (further reducing its potential customer base).
I think you worry too much. What really matters is what gear you chose and how you use it. Who cares about stupid websites. The best way to showcase the brand is to make great photos. Most of the website reviews shoot themselves in the foot by taking pretty crappy sample photos anyhow.

---------- Post added 10-07-19 at 06:58 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
It is not a "strategic advantage" if the customer
The strategic advantage is the individual who is smart enough to see the quality and capabilities of the Pentax gear and to use it to produce high quality image.

10-07-2019, 07:02 PM   #1070
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QuoteOriginally posted by BROO Quote
Who cares about stupid websites.
I couldn't care less about them with respect to my decisions.

The sad truth, however, is that people visit them and some of them are influenced by them.

We both agree that Pentax is a great brand.

We do not seem to agree about whether or not a small customer base is problematic and whether or not websites can have an influence (DPReview has 20,000,000 hits a day).

At the limit, if the customer base becomes small enough, the brand is discontinued. I don't think either of us wants that.
10-07-2019, 07:25 PM - 1 Like   #1071
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
At the limit, if the customer base becomes small enough, the brand is discontinued. I don't think either of us wants that.
I think Ricoh have sufficient customer base in Japan where these websites have less influence. I guess I am talking less about the brand strategy and more about our individual strategy to create good images. We both know a Pentax K 1 plus a D FA*50 mm lens will create world class images as good as any. So lets just grab it. If others want to buy a DPR recommendation then good for them.
Maybe Pentax will be around for a long time. They have an extremely lean business model which is a Japanese strong suit.
I really don't think they need to produce many more lenses. A couple of consumer zooms and two or three primes in FF and they will be done.

D FA 70-200 mm F4
D FA 100-300mm f4-5.6
D FA*85mm f1.4
D FA*24mm f1.4

Throw in a DA telephoto to go with the K-$?

DA* 300mm f2.8

Then they can update other lenses as time and money permit.
10-08-2019, 02:24 AM - 1 Like   #1072
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QuoteOriginally posted by BROO Quote
I think Ricoh have sufficient customer base in Japan where these websites have less influence. (...)
The customer base of the Pentax brand in Japan is not that big: 3.1% of the DSLR market in 2018, which amounted to 468,952 units shipped. That makes roughly 14,500 cameras, i.e. 40 cameras per day. In addition, the Japanese DSLR market is rapidly declining: -36% during the first eight months of 2019 in comparison to the same period in 2018.

Extrapolating these share and trend would lead to Ricoh shipping 30 Pentax cameras per day in Japan in 2019. You can't fund much R&D from that.

I therefore agree with @Class A: a small, ageing and declining customer base is problematic and
QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
It is not a "strategic advantage" if the customer base of a brand is so small that ages go by between lens releases, you cannot handle the gear in stores anymore, and stupid websites outdo themselves talking about the imminent death of the brand (further reducing its potential customer base).
10-08-2019, 05:49 AM   #1073
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
The customer base of the Pentax brand in Japan is not that big: 3.1% of the DSLR market in 2018, which amounted to 468,952 units shipped. That makes roughly 14,500 cameras, i.e. 40 cameras per day. In addition, the Japanese DSLR market is rapidly declining: -36% during the first eight months of 2019 in comparison to the same period in 2018.
Ricoh only make DSLRs?

10-08-2019, 05:55 AM   #1074
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QuoteOriginally posted by BROO Quote
Ricoh only make DSLRs?
Only DSLRs use the lenses in question. If they don't sell enough DSLRs, then it is guaranteed that they won't sell enough of the lenses in question, so other cameras in production are irrelevant to any questions about the lenses in question.
10-08-2019, 06:01 AM   #1075
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
If they don't sell enough DSLRs, then it is guaranteed that they won't sell enough of the lenses in question, so other cameras in production are irrelevant to any questions about the lenses in question.
I woudn't think you would buy a lens unless you had a camera first?

You really are trying to nit pick aren't you? Did Ricoh release the D FA*50 lens with the deliberate aim to lose money?

i was talking about a strategy of us users to take advantage of our knowledge of the quality of the Pentax brand.Not Ricoh's marketing strategy. I will leave it up to them to decide that.
10-08-2019, 06:09 AM - 1 Like   #1076
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QuoteOriginally posted by BROO Quote
Ricoh only make DSLRs?
Their sole use of the Pentax brand is for making DSLRs, interchangeable lenses and the corresponding accessories. On other markets (high-end compact cameras, rugged compact cameras, 360 cameras) they prefer to use their own brand.

Remember that @Class A, you and I are talking about brand, not manufacturer.

QuoteOriginally posted by BROO Quote
(...) If Pentax is producing some world class equipment and we have good access to it then who cares what any one else thinks? See it as a strategic advantage (...)
QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
It is not a "strategic advantage" if the customer base of a brand is so small that ages go by between lens releases, you cannot handle the gear in stores anymore, and stupid websites outdo themselves talking about the imminent death of the brand (further reducing its potential customer base).
QuoteOriginally posted by BROO Quote
(...)The best way to showcase the brand is to make great photos. (...)

---------- Post added 10-07-19 at 06:58 PM ----------


The strategic advantage is the individual who is smart enough to see the quality and capabilities of the Pentax gear and to use it to produce high quality image.
QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
(...) We both agree that Pentax is a great brand.

We do not seem to agree about whether or not a small customer base is problematic and whether or not websites can have an influence (DPReview has 20,000,000 hits a day).

At the limit, if the customer base becomes small enough, the brand is discontinued. I don't think either of us wants that.
10-08-2019, 06:14 AM   #1077
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^^Thanks for brightening my day. Ugh.

K-new better be a Home Run.

Last edited by monochrome; 10-08-2019 at 07:00 AM.
10-08-2019, 06:20 AM   #1078
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Remember that @Class A, you and I are talking about brand, not manufacturer.
I am actually talking about the individual not giving a toss about what others think about the brand and just using the equipment to make good images. You seem to be more interested about making some argument.
10-08-2019, 06:24 AM - 2 Likes   #1079
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But that's precisely the point: when a few people, part of a small customer base, promote a brand by making good images whereas websites with a huge reach disparage said brand, the future of the brand is at stake.
10-08-2019, 06:33 AM   #1080
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
whereas websites with a huge reach disparage said brand, the future of the brand is at stake.
Yes I agree but that is really something Ricoh have to sort out. I think they have Pentax on life support in a way. There is just too much money being spent by the big boys at the moment.
Keep it small and ticking along and waiting their time. I am hoping that they bring some of their recent patents to life soon and add a few interesting features to the Pentax DSLR camera.

I do believe that soon enough the technology within cameras that are two or three generations behind the leaders will be more than sufficient for most photographers. (if it isn't already)

Last edited by BROO; 10-08-2019 at 06:40 AM.
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