[Rondec]

Pentax can't sell them if they don't design them first. Their product introduction rate is really pitiful.

I don't think these lenses are in your price range anyway, are they? Certainly the f1.4 primes that are being released are all going to sell above 1000 dollars and you were saying in another thread that the KP is over priced for you.

Personally, I believe that the issues with the DFA *50's release had more to do with production details and making certain that the lines were up to producing the quality needed for such a lens, rather than the design itself. My guess is that if the DFA 50 is a success (and so far it seems to be), other DFA * primes will follow faster. But these are top end lenses that will be expensive and focused on people who own K-1 cameras.

[monochrome]

Exactly. Exaggeration's crude and misleading, so I tend towards understatement. Also, I'm trying to be clear that that ranking is not proof of anything, just a positive indication that online sales are going well.

It's amazing how you can post something that seems overwhelmingly positive and wake up the next morning being called a "naysayer".

When I read that reply I thought there was some kind of translation error given your history of posts and actual first-hand knowledge. My reply, reading back, can also be misinterpreted - but that’s the issue with typing. No intonation or visual signals to help with understanding.

[Sandy Hancock]

The category killer.
I like that.

I will own that.

[RobA_Oz]

I am fairly certain that all parties involved have said flat out that the Opera 50 is Tokina's version of the Pentax designed D-FA 50 1.4 that just hit the street. If you have followed the clowns who came on the forums claiming that Tokina, (or Tamron,) designed it, (Also not true,) you would have seen the links to comments from persons in the know on who designed it.

I recall some of those claims, but I confess to not having followed the arguments to conclusion. That said, I also haven’t checked in any detail to see what, if anything, is happening with the Tokina version, other than it doesn’t seem to have been in stock anywhere since its launch at CP+.

[monochrome]

The category killer.
I like that.

I will own that.

The reference is in Wheatfield’s first image thread. He had a conversation with as Sigma Rep RE: the *50 at his dealer at some point (I think when he picked it up).

[monochrome]

I recall some of those claims, but I confess to not having followed the arguments to conclusion. That said, I also haven’t checked in any detail to see what, if anything, is happening with the Tokina version, other than it doesn’t seem to have been in stock anywhere since its launch at CP+.

I don’t think the Opera 50 is released yet. RE: the ongoing discussion of who designed the lens, IIRC
@Mistral75 pointed out we have not yet seen any patents by either party. We’re essentially drawing on the Pentax * Lens Special Site and posts by one or two informed, anonymous users (not asahi man). I have a guess where one of the users works, and if I’m correct his posts have credibility.

[Mark Ransom]

I don't think these lenses are in your price range anyway, are they? Certainly the f1.4 primes that are being released are all going to sell above 1000 dollars and you were saying in another thread that the KP is over priced for you.

Personally, I believe that the issues with the DFA *50's release had more to do with production details and making certain that the lines were up to producing the quality needed for such a lens, rather than the design itself. My guess is that if the DFA 50 is a success (and so far it seems to be), other DFA * primes will follow faster. But these are top end lenses that will be expensive and focused on people who own K-1 cameras.

Certainly the DFA 50 is not in my price range, but a higher rate of introduction might allow for a little more variety on the types of lenses introduced. When you only introduce a single lens per year, of course it's going to be a top-end expensive lens because it wouldn't make economic sense to do anything else.


I also worry for the Pentax ecosystem itself.

[Ian Stuart Forsyth]

@Mistral75 pointed out we have not yet seen any patents by either party. We’re essentially drawing on the Pentax * Lens Special Site and posts by one or two informed, anonymous users (not asahi man). I have a guess where one of the users works, and if I’m correct his posts have credibility.

I wouldn't be surprised if the lens is a joint venture and both tokina and pentax have shared in the design of the lens. Tokina may use pentaxs lens patents while pentax uses tokina's AF motor. If we look at previously shared lens designs between tokina and pentax they varied greatly in how they looked and how AF operated, pentax used a clutch style while tokina used slide in lock on the AF barrel. With the new 50 they are very similar right down to how AF is disengaged with the AF switch that is located in the same place.

This is only the second time lenses from tokina that has offered such an AF switch the first being the 70-200 F4. Oddly enough 2 other lenses tokina that have been released after the 70-200 F4 went back to the slide lock, and if we look at what is in the road map from pentax we see a 70-200 F4 I wouldn't be surprised if tokina and pentax jointly hold cross patents in the production of the 50 and maybe even the 70-200 F4.

[biz-engineer]

Certainly the DFA 50 is not in my price range

I also worry for the Pentax ecosystem itself.

I am quite impressed by the D-FA*50 actually , I am impressed because it features a fast ring motor AF as well as an electromagnetic diaphragm, as well as Leica/Zeiss type of optical performance at a fraction of the price.
That means, somehow Ricoh managed to catch-up on lens tech, offering at least as good or even better than other brands. The D-FA*50 is among the best full frame lens ever made. Only the downside of it is that Ricoh took a lot of time to release that lens, but lenses are here to last long so it's not a bad idea to get the design right.

[Kunzite]

I wouldn't be surprised if the lens is a joint venture and both tokina and pentax have shared in the design of the lens. Tokina may use pentaxs lens patents while pentax uses tokina's AF motor. If we look at previously shared lens designs between tokina and pentax they varied greatly in how they looked and how AF operated, pentax used a clutch style while tokina used slide in lock on the AF barrel. With the new 50 they are very similar right down to how AF is disengaged with the AF switch that is located in the same place.

Pentax is using such AF switches since more than a decade ago. I guess your point is that it was a Pentax-driven design decision.

OTOH the resemblance of the AF motor might be due to using the same supplier.

[Ian Stuart Forsyth]

Pentax is using such AF switches since more than a decade ago. I guess your point is that it was a Pentax-driven design decision.

This could very well be and to cut costs between the 2 manufactures, tokina does put a lot of good design into the quality build of the lens main body often times over building the chassis of the lens when compared to other manufactures out there. The really issues with tokina is QC and lens coatings. this is not to say tokina will start to use pentax lens coatings but I would not be surprised if tokina maybe licensing some of older coatings for the new series of lenses to be more competitive with todays market.

[monochrome]

I wouldn't be surprised if the lens is a joint venture and both tokina and pentax have shared in the design of the lens. Tokina may use pentaxs lens patents while pentax uses tokina's AF motor. If we look at previously shared lens designs between tokina and pentax they varied greatly in how they looked and how AF operated, pentax used a clutch style while tokina used slide in lock on the AF barrel. With the new 50 they are very similar right down to how AF is disengaged with the AF switch that is located in the same place.

This is only the second time lenses from tokina that has offered such an AF switch the first being the 70-200 F4. Oddly enough 2 other lenses tokina that have been released after the 70-200 F4 went back to the slide lock, and if we look at what is in the road map from pentax we see a 70-200 F4 I wouldn't be surprised if tokina and pentax jointly hold cross patents in the production of the 50 and maybe even the 70-200 F4.

I think it remains unclear. Again reading the * Lens Special Site Development Interview, it reads as if Pentax did the entire optical design, with less specific language - other than ‘we designed’ (in reference to positioning the focus group and some new technology they invented) - when discussing the new SDM ring motor. They do show the comparison image of the massive ring motor versus the tiny geared former SDM drive motor. ‘We designed’ can either be specific or it can be a reference to the not-named shared design team.

[Ian Stuart Forsyth]

I think it remains unclear. Again reading the * Lens Special Site Development Interview, it reads as if Pentax did the entire optical design, with less specific language - other than ‘we designed’ (in reference to positioning the focus group and some new technology they invented) - when discussing the new SDM ring motor. They do show the comparison image of the massive ring motor versus the tiny geared former SDM drive motor. ‘We designed’ can either be specific or it can be a reference to the not-named shared design team.

We will never really know until we see the equipment apart, when I first saw the new lens motor from the dfa 50 I had seen the motor before and that was in a tokina 70-200 f4 that was apart right in front of me short before the first leaked images of pentaxs new lens

Even when I looked at Nikon stating that they had designed the D850 sensor I was very suspect that was a sony sensor built to Nikon specs that contained all sony IP, so most of the time I take what companies say with a grain of salt


Cut and past from here
Amateur Photographers (UK) Predicts End for Pentax - Page 38 - PentaxForums.com

That's interesting- I've never been one for taking lenses apart, and there's consequently a lot I don't know. I suppose the lager point still holds that Tokina is pretty much just using the optical formula under licence and making the lenses in its own way.I suppose that begs the question as to whether Ricoh did the reverse with the Tamron lenses. It in noway follows that that is the case, but it might explain some of the price disparity -although I believe that there is evidence that the lenses were assembled by Tamron also (country of assembly on box). Anyway, none of it is really important to us users, just interesting to know.

What might be interesting is that they are using joint components in the lens, pentax may have the optical formula and tokina is using the it under licence while pentax is using things like AF motors. who know when I looked at the AF motor found in the DFA 50 it sure looks very similar to the one found in the tokina 70-200 F4 way too similar. And from my understanding tokina has used the very same motor on other lenses just configured differently.


here is the DFA 50


Ref Product Overview | HD PENTAX-D FA?50mm F1.4 SDM AW | PENTAX STAR LENS | RICOH IMAGING

and now the tokina 70-200 f4



and here they are overlaid with the DFA on the bottom





In a time where there is a shrinking market I would not be surprised to see to niche manufactures cut costs with joint ventures to increase profits

[nzondlo]

In a time where there is a shrinking market I would not be surprised to see to niche manufactures cut costs with joint ventures to increase profits

We're seeinf the exact same thing with the affordable sports car market with companies like Toyota partnering with Subaru and BMW to design the drivetrain for their cars. These things have massive development costs and shrinking markets. Seems like the way forward in the future as minimum expectations ($$$) increase.

[Dr_who]

Hoping to get a chance to play with one sometime soon