RICOH ANNOUNCES AVAILABILITY OF HD PENTAX-D FA★50mm F1.4 SDM AW STAR-SERIES LENS

**BigMackCam** · 03-02-2019, 04:08 PM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

I didn't really like the bokeh from the DA*55/1.4. Nice sharp lens though. One of my best photos was shot with it.
It's a great studio lens, the bad bokeh isn't important.

Full disclosure, Bill... I've never shot with the DA*55/1.4 myself... I've only read the (mostly) positive reviews of it. That's interesting about the out-of-focus rendering, though. Is it genuinely "bad", or just not nearly as good (understandably) as the superior-in-every-way D*FA50/1.4? It's somewhat subjective, of course, but bad bokeh is pretty much bad bokeh, unless the novelty factor comes into play.

The only K-mount AF 50s I own are the DA50/1.8 and FA50/1.4. Neither is amazing, yet both are good, IMHO, if used to their strengths. But they're a long way behind the DA*55/1.4, I'd guess, and completely different territory to the D*FA50/1.4...

**Rondec** · 03-03-2019, 04:26 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by BigMackCam

Full disclosure, Bill... I've never shot with the DA*55/1.4 myself... I've only read the (mostly) positive reviews of it. That's interesting about the out-of-focus rendering, though. Is it genuinely "bad", or just not nearly as good (understandably) as the superior-in-every-way D*FA50/1.4? It's somewhat subjective, of course, but bad bokeh is pretty much bad bokeh, unless the novelty factor comes into play.

The only K-mount AF 50s I own are the DA50/1.8 and FA50/1.4. Neither is amazing, yet both are good, IMHO, if used to their strengths. But they're a long way behind the DA*55/1.4, I'd guess, and completely different territory to the D*FA50/1.4...

I guess what I see with the DA *55 is that it can get really circular highlights everywhere that can be quite distracting. This mostly wide open. Stopped down it is pretty decent, but the FA 77 is just a lot smoother and to my eyes the DFA *50 is as well.

Wheatfield · 03-04-2019, 08:43 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

I guess what I see with the DA *55 is that it can get really circular highlights everywhere that can be quite distracting. This mostly wide open. Stopped down it is pretty decent, but the FA 77 is just a lot smoother and to my eyes the DFA *50 is as well.

Yup. That’s what I saw too. Kinda harsh bokeh and ugly halos that almost look like they came from a mirror lens.

**clackers** · 03-04-2019, 09:17 PM - **4 Likes**

?

I find the DA*55 bokeh to be beautiful, with nine curved aperture blades. Vignettes less than the FA50, and one of the first guys to shoot the DFA* beside Kerrick James noted that you have to zoom in to tell the difference between the DFA* and the DA*. Doesn't stop me wanting one, though.

Class A · 03-08-2019, 08:52 PM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by ayersliao

8) The author in conclusion said, "K-1 ii is TOOOO SLOOOOOOOW. Shooting pace would be bothered and interrupted severely."
==> Hello? Are you reviewing the camera?

He probably also had lens corrections and what not turned on, slowing down the camera.

Originally posted by ayersliao

So, I think his review is similar to that by DPreview, both written by Pentax -haters.

Hanlon's razor: They are probably not hateful, just ignorant. Unfamiliarity with the equipment leads to an overwhelming feeling of dissociation (it's different to what they are used to) and hence severe under-appreciation.

The fact that DPReview didn't mention the groove at the front of the DA* 11-18mm/2.8 in their report doesn't mean they hate Pentax. They are just not very good at what they are doing.

Class A · 03-08-2019, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

I didn't really like the bokeh from the DA*55/1.4.

Same here.

In my view, the HD D-FA* 50/1.4's bokeh is leagues better.

Originally posted by clackers

I find the DA*55 bokeh to be beautiful, with nine curved aperture blades.

The aperture blades don't really influence bokeh. They influence how edgy "bokeh balls" look like, but the overall out-of-focus rendering quality is determined by the PSF (point spread function) of the lens.

It is of course a matter of taste -- some really love the funky bokeh of old Russian (based on Zeiss designs) -- but your sample photos show several areas where the DA* 55/1.4's bokeh can be described as "busy". It is easiest to see in the background of the last image of the dog where the cars don't look smooth due to doubling (or multiplication) of edges.

Again, bokeh assessment is subjective and one cannot be "wrong". All I'm saying is that if the goal is to have backgrounds as unobtrusive (smooth) as possible, the HD DF-A* 50/1.4 does a much better job.

reh321 · 03-08-2019, 09:42 PM

Originally posted by ayersliao

8) The author in conclusion said, "K-1 ii is TOOOO SLOOOOOOOW. Shooting pace would be bothered and interrupted severely."

This lens and camera are not intended for speed contests. In most cases, the artist should be thinking more than s/he is shooting.

**clackers** · 03-08-2019, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by Class A

It is easiest to see in the background of the last image of the dog where the cars don't look smooth due to doubling (or multiplication) of edges.

That's simply the distance to the objects, Class A, the DFA would deliver the same effect, even slightly more so since its focal length is 5mm shorter.

**clackers** · 03-08-2019, 10:13 PM

Originally posted by Class A

The aperture blades don't really influence bokeh.

Of course they do!

Class A · 03-08-2019, 11:00 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by clackers

the DFA would deliver the same effect,

We'll have to agree to disagree on that.

Until someone owning both lenses posts a comparison shot. Then you'll have to agree with me.

Originally posted by clackers

Of course they do!

We may have a different interpretation of the term "bokeh".

I'm not talking about the shape of "bokeh balls", i.e., the discs produced by heavily out of focus point sources.
The shape (outer perimeter) of these "bokeh balls" is of course determined by the aperture blades, if the lens is stopped down.

Wide open, however, the out-of-focus rendering of various lenses is still different (even when they share the same focal length and "lens speed") because the rendering of out-of-focus areas is determined by the optical formula, not by the number or shape of aperture blades.

When stopped down, the out-of-focus rendering of a lens may be slightly influenced by the number and shape of aperture blades, but the dominant factor will always be the point spread function of the lens (for reasonable levels of stopping down).

EDIT:
Here's an example of two different out-of-focus renderings of lenses (here Sigma Art 18-35/1.8 vs Pentax FA* 31/1.8):

(comparison provided by @Digitalis)

To my eyes, the DA* 55/1.4 renders more like the Sigma whereas the HD D-FA* 50/1.4 renders more like the FA* 31/1.8.

Mistral75 · 03-09-2019, 03:06 AM

Originally posted by Class A

(...)

When stopped down, the out-of-focus rendering of a lens may be slightly influenced by the number and shape of aperture blades, but the dominant factor will always be the point spread function of the lens (for reasonable levels of stopping down).

(...)

Exactly. The Carl Zeiss Planar HFT 85mm f/1.4 has a smooth and pleasant bokeh, with gradual transitions between in-focus and out-of-focus areas (I did post some examples on Pentax Forums), yet its iris has a triangular shape.

**clackers** · 03-23-2019, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by Class A

We'll have to agree to disagree on that.

Until someone owning both lenses posts a comparison shot. Then you'll have to agree with me.

See for yourself, @Class A

http://m.slrclub.com/v/pentax_forum/407070

Once you get similar subjects and backgrounds instead of cherry picking - anyone can shoot a picture to discredit any lens - the results are also similar.

rawr · 03-23-2019, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by clackers

Once you get similar subjects and backgrounds instead of cherry picking

Ideally, people would agree to shoot a consistently similar bokeh test scene with each lens, like for example photozone does. Eg:

Pentax SMC DA* 55mm f/1.4 SDM - Review / Test Report - Analysis

But that is never going to happen. Pity photozone has slowed its Pentax reviews to a stand-still.

**clackers** · 03-23-2019, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by rawr

Ideally, people would agree to shoot a consistently similar bokeh test scene with each lens, like for example photozone does. Eg:

Pentax SMC DA* 55mm f/1.4 SDM - Review / Test Report - Analysis

But that is never going to happen. Pity photozone has slowed its Pentax reviews to a stand-still.

To be honest, unless the reviewer knows what they're doing (like Mike Tompkins at Image Resource or Bernard Dery at this forum), I'd rather a website did no review of a product at all.

Stick to 'news' of a new product - that's code for rewriting a company's press release.

**Rondec** · 03-24-2019, 03:09 AM - **2 Likes**

This is the sort of bokeh I see with the DA *55 at f2.5

And wide open

One more at f1.4

I wouldn't say that the out of focus rendering is terrible, it is just that it could be better and to my eyes is better with the older A 50 f1.2 and newer DFA *50. Some people like busy out of focus areas -- the Soligor seems to create these all of the time -- but I would rather have the background be smooth and not distracting and have nice transitions between in focus and out of focus.

But photography is one of those areas where people can look at photos and judge what they like and don't like for themselves.

03-08-2019, 08:52 PM - 3 Likes	#950
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by ayersliao 8) The author in conclusion said, "K-1 ii is TOOOO SLOOOOOOOW. Shooting pace would be bothered and interrupted severely." ==> Hello? Are you reviewing the camera? He probably also had lens corrections and what not turned on, slowing down the camera. Originally posted by ayersliao So, I think his review is similar to that by DPreview, both written by Pentax -haters. Hanlon's razor: They are probably not hateful, just ignorant. Unfamiliarity with the equipment leads to an overwhelming feeling of dissociation (it's different to what they are used to) and hence severe under-appreciation. The fact that DPReview didn't mention the groove at the front of the DA* 11-18mm/2.8 in their report doesn't mean they hate Pentax. They are just not very good at what they are doing. Last edited by Class A; 04-01-2019 at 10:11 AM.

03-08-2019, 11:00 PM - 1 Like	#955
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by clackers the DFA would deliver the same effect, We'll have to agree to disagree on that. Until someone owning both lenses posts a comparison shot. Then you'll have to agree with me. Originally posted by clackers Of course they do! We may have a different interpretation of the term "bokeh". I'm not talking about the shape of "bokeh balls", i.e., the discs produced by heavily out of focus point sources. The shape (outer perimeter) of these "bokeh balls" is of course determined by the aperture blades, if the lens is stopped down. Wide open, however, the out-of-focus rendering of various lenses is still different (even when they share the same focal length and "lens speed") because the rendering of out-of-focus areas is determined by the optical formula, not by the number or shape of aperture blades. When stopped down, the out-of-focus rendering of a lens may be slightly influenced by the number and shape of aperture blades, but the dominant factor will always be the point spread function of the lens (for reasonable levels of stopping down). EDIT: Here's an example of two different out-of-focus renderings of lenses (here Sigma Art 18-35/1.8 vs Pentax FA* 31/1.8): (comparison provided by @Digitalis) To my eyes, the DA* 55/1.4 renders more like the Sigma whereas the HD D-FA* 50/1.4 renders more like the FA* 31/1.8. Last edited by Class A; 03-09-2019 at 02:57 AM.

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03-02-2019, 04:08 PM	#946
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,656	Originally posted by Wheatfield I didn't really like the bokeh from the DA55/1.4. Nice sharp lens though. One of my best photos was shot with it. It's a great studio lens, the bad bokeh isn't important. Full disclosure, Bill... I've never shot with the DA55/1.4 myself... I've only read the (mostly) positive reviews of it. That's interesting about the out-of-focus rendering, though. Is it genuinely "bad", or just not nearly as good (understandably) as the superior-in-every-way DFA50/1.4? It's somewhat subjective, of course, but bad bokeh is pretty much bad bokeh, unless the novelty factor comes into play. The only K-mount AF 50s I own are the DA50/1.8 and FA50/1.4. Neither is amazing, yet both are good, IMHO, if used to their strengths. But they're a long way behind the DA55/1.4, I'd guess, and completely different territory to the D*FA50/1.4...

03-03-2019, 04:26 AM - 1 Like	#947
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	Originally posted by BigMackCam Full disclosure, Bill... I've never shot with the DA55/1.4 myself... I've only read the (mostly) positive reviews of it. That's interesting about the out-of-focus rendering, though. Is it genuinely "bad", or just not nearly as good (understandably) as the superior-in-every-way DFA50/1.4? It's somewhat subjective, of course, but bad bokeh is pretty much bad bokeh, unless the novelty factor comes into play. The only K-mount AF 50s I own are the DA50/1.8 and FA50/1.4. Neither is amazing, yet both are good, IMHO, if used to their strengths. But they're a long way behind the DA55/1.4, I'd guess, and completely different territory to the DFA50/1.4... I guess what I see with the DA 55 is that it can get really circular highlights everywhere that can be quite distracting. This mostly wide open. Stopped down it is pretty decent, but the FA 77 is just a lot smoother and to my eyes the DFA 50 is as well.

03-04-2019, 08:43 PM	#948
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,976	Originally posted by Rondec I guess what I see with the DA 55 is that it can get really circular highlights everywhere that can be quite distracting. This mostly wide open. Stopped down it is pretty decent, but the FA 77 is just a lot smoother and to my eyes the DFA 50 is as well. Yup. That’s what I saw too. Kinda harsh bokeh and ugly halos that almost look like they came from a mirror lens.

03-04-2019, 09:17 PM - 4 Likes	#949
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	? I find the DA55 bokeh to be beautiful, with nine curved aperture blades. Vignettes less than the FA50, and one of the first guys to shoot the DFA beside Kerrick James noted that you have to zoom in to tell the difference between the DFA* and the DA*. Doesn't stop me wanting one, though.

03-08-2019, 09:03 PM	#951
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by Wheatfield I didn't really like the bokeh from the DA55/1.4. Same here. In my view, the HD D-FA 50/1.4's bokeh is leagues better. Originally posted by clackers I find the DA55 bokeh to be beautiful, with nine curved aperture blades. The aperture blades don't really influence bokeh. They influence how edgy "bokeh balls" look like, but the overall out-of-focus rendering quality is determined by the PSF (point spread function) of the lens. It is of course a matter of taste -- some really love the funky bokeh of old Russian (based on Zeiss designs) -- but your sample photos show several areas where the DA 55/1.4's bokeh can be described as "busy". It is easiest to see in the background of the last image of the dog where the cars don't look smooth due to doubling (or multiplication) of edges. Again, bokeh assessment is subjective and one cannot be "wrong". All I'm saying is that if the goal is to have backgrounds as unobtrusive (smooth) as possible, the HD DF-A* 50/1.4 does a much better job.

03-08-2019, 09:42 PM	#952
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by ayersliao 8) The author in conclusion said, "K-1 ii is TOOOO SLOOOOOOOW. Shooting pace would be bothered and interrupted severely." This lens and camera are not intended for speed contests. In most cases, the artist should be thinking more than s/he is shooting.

03-08-2019, 10:11 PM	#953
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by Class A It is easiest to see in the background of the last image of the dog where the cars don't look smooth due to doubling (or multiplication) of edges. That's simply the distance to the objects, Class A, the DFA would deliver the same effect, even slightly more so since its focal length is 5mm shorter.

03-08-2019, 10:13 PM	#954
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by Class A The aperture blades don't really influence bokeh. Of course they do!

03-09-2019, 03:06 AM	#956
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,526	Originally posted by Class A (...) When stopped down, the out-of-focus rendering of a lens may be slightly influenced by the number and shape of aperture blades, but the dominant factor will always be the point spread function of the lens (for reasonable levels of stopping down). (...) Exactly. The Carl Zeiss Planar HFT 85mm f/1.4 has a smooth and pleasant bokeh, with gradual transitions between in-focus and out-of-focus areas (I did post some examples on Pentax Forums), yet its iris has a triangular shape.

03-23-2019, 04:21 PM	#957
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by Class A We'll have to agree to disagree on that. Until someone owning both lenses posts a comparison shot. Then you'll have to agree with me. See for yourself, @Class A http://m.slrclub.com/v/pentax_forum/407070 Once you get similar subjects and backgrounds instead of cherry picking - anyone can shoot a picture to discredit any lens - the results are also similar.

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03-23-2019, 08:09 PM	#958
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by clackers Once you get similar subjects and backgrounds instead of cherry picking Ideally, people would agree to shoot a consistently similar bokeh test scene with each lens, like for example photozone does. Eg: Pentax SMC DA* 55mm f/1.4 SDM - Review / Test Report - Analysis But that is never going to happen. Pity photozone has slowed its Pentax reviews to a stand-still.

03-23-2019, 08:15 PM	#959
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by rawr Ideally, people would agree to shoot a consistently similar bokeh test scene with each lens, like for example photozone does. Eg: Pentax SMC DA* 55mm f/1.4 SDM - Review / Test Report - Analysis But that is never going to happen. Pity photozone has slowed its Pentax reviews to a stand-still. To be honest, unless the reviewer knows what they're doing (like Mike Tompkins at Image Resource or Bernard Dery at this forum), I'd rather a website did no review of a product at all. Stick to 'news' of a new product - that's code for rewriting a company's press release.

03-24-2019, 03:09 AM - 2 Likes	#960
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	This is the sort of bokeh I see with the DA 55 at f2.5 And wide open One more at f1.4 I wouldn't say that the out of focus rendering is terrible, it is just that it could be better and to my eyes is better with the older A 50 f1.2 and newer DFA 50. Some people like busy out of focus areas -- the Soligor seems to create these all of the time -- but I would rather have the background be smooth and not distracting and have nice transitions between in focus and out of focus. But photography is one of those areas where people can look at photos and judge what they like and don't like for themselves.