[Mistral75]

(...)
They're mentioning Theta because that's the #1 on its market. They're not mentioning any other camera that wasn't announced in that quarter... and guess what...

When reporting on FY2018/03, during which the K-1 II was announced, they are still not mentioning any other camera than Theta.

[Kunzite]

Nope. You mention only the big money bringers. It can be plural. Automotive is more lucrative than consumer grade cameras will be. I wasn' t in the meeting to tell you exactly, but from a business stand point, the presentation kind of tells what I said. Trust me, no company says `and others` , unless they are volatile/ uncertain/ of no real interest (customer, products, whatever you think of) .

Also, from my knowledge, 3 years of negative profit (after expecting positive) will lead to a shareholders audit and a revamp of the business unit (cutdowns, or whatever) .

Nope? Have you even watched their financial reports? They'd say things like, "We launched the X camera". Pentax is so small within the Ricoh Group that investors just don't care about particular models. At the end of the presentation there's a Q&A session; I don't remember them asking about consumer camera even once.
No offense but I don't trust guesses and biases - come with proof and we'll talk.

I thought Ricoh Imaging is profitable - why are you talking about 3 years of negative profit?

[K5_Ltd_User]

Nope? Have you even watched their financial reports? They'd say things like, "We launched the X camera". Pentax is so small within the Ricoh Group that investors just don't care about particular models. At the end of the presentation there's a Q&A session; I don't remember them asking about consumer camera even once.
No offense but I don't trust guesses and biases - come with proof and we'll talk.

I thought Ricoh Imaging is profitable - why are you talking about 3 years of negative profit?

I just tell you what the figures tell. Don' t think for one second that a segment/ division in a group will be sustained financially by a company if they finish the fiscal year on a negative, with a trend also. Theta can be switched to a automotive division and consumer grade cameras stopped (sold or moved to Ricoh) . I' ll tell you what. I' ll check the previous years and get back to you, cause numbers don' t lie.

No offense taken, as I just told you what the presentation tells. But as I said, maybe I don' t know how to 'read' one, and Ricoh bought Pentax only to give away money (kindest multinational company I' ve heard of) .


Proof- open the presentations, identify the (sub)division Pentax bellongs to in the Group, read the facts and the predicted FY' s (past, present and future) , compare them with the obtained ones, and go ask around what happens in such Corporations with such results. If Theta is bringing profit but are affiliated to the non- profit group, I think they are struggling to switch (Project Leaders and Engineers alike might not be content by all that comes with it- I know I would) .

[Zygonyx]

...with 'celebrations which will take place next year on a regional basis'.

Product announcements would be global by nature, so...

Let's do what's needed to be part of the partying happy few

[Kunzite]

I just tell you what the figures tell. Don' t think for one second that a segment/ division in a group will be sustained financially by a company if they finish the fiscal year on a negative, with a trend also. Theta can be switched to a automotive division and consumer grade cameras stopped (sold or moved to Ricoh) . I' ll tell you what. I' ll check the previous years and get back to you, cause numbers don' t lie.

No offense taken, as I just told you what the presentation tells. But as I said, maybe I don' t know how to 'read' one, and Ricoh bought Pentax only to give away money (kindest multinational company I' ve heard of) .


Proof- open the presentations, identify the (sub)division Pentax bellongs to in the Group, read the facts and the predicted FY' s (past, present and future) , compare them with the obtained ones, and go ask around what happens in such Corporations with such results. If Theta is bringing profit but are affiliated to the non- profit group, I think they are struggling to switch (Project Leaders and Engineers alike might not be content by all that comes with it- I know I would) .

No, you're far from telling me "what the figures tell" - you're speculating a lot.
Don't bother.

[reh321]

I thought Ricoh Imaging is profitable - why are you talking about 3 years of negative profit?

I just tell you what the figures tell. Don' t think for one second that a segment/ division in a group will be sustained financially by a company if they finish the fiscal year on a negative, with a trend also. Theta can be switched to a automotive division and consumer grade cameras stopped (sold or moved to Ricoh) . I' ll tell you what. I' ll check the previous years and get back to you, cause numbers don' t lie.

No offense taken, as I just told you what the presentation tells. But as I said, maybe I don' t know how to 'read' one, and Ricoh bought Pentax only to give away money (kindest multinational company I' ve heard of) .

Proof- open the presentations, identify the (sub)division Pentax bellongs to in the Group, read the facts and the predicted FY' s (past, present and future) , compare them with the obtained ones, and go ask around what happens in such Corporations with such results. If Theta is bringing profit but are affiliated to the non- profit group, I think they are struggling to switch (Project Leaders and Engineers alike might not be content by all that comes with it- I know I would) .

You didn't answer question by @Kunzite. From where, specifically, do you get "profits down three years" from?

[K5_Ltd_User]

You didn't answer question by @Kunzite. From where, specifically, do you get "profits down three years" from?

Click the link in the first post. Search for profitability. I think in 2017 or 2016 there was - xx% (have to double- check) . Anyway, look at the figures. I didn' t say what Pentax has done (restructuring because of negative FY' s) , cause I myself didn' t check all the data and have no access to Ricoh internal management policies, but merely presented how some companies act (not Pentax' s size, true) .

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Last edited by K5_Ltd_User; 10-01-2018 at 07:06 AM.

[Mistral75]

It's very difficult to infer anything concerning Pentax's profitability from Ricoh's reporting. All we know is that the Pentax imaging business Ricoh acquired from Hoya was almost break-even during the 6-month period following the acquisition. That was in 2011-2012, not exactly yesterday.

[K5_Ltd_User]

It's very difficult to infer anything concerning Pentax's profitability from Ricoh's reporting. All we know is that the Pentax imaging business Ricoh acquired from Hoya was almost break-even during the 6-month period following the acquisition. That was in 2011-2012, not exactly yesterday.

Don' t find it difficult at all. Pentax didn't offer Printing services or anything related to this, thus the division is clear. Numbers speak as I said, I truely believe Pentax was aquired for the Theta technology. It has nothing else to offer in a competitive way (except for the amazing 1% sharpness from a 2 year old sensor at the time of its first release in a competor' s DSLR) ; just look at the number of OEM' s that entered the Mirrorles format, each with different advantages carry over of lenses mostly) . 2 big names plus Panasonic, not to Mention MF (2x) .
Come on...

[RonHendriks1966]

It's very difficult to infer anything concerning Pentax's profitability from Ricoh's reporting. All we know is that the Pentax imaging business Ricoh acquired from Hoya was almost break-even during the 6-month period following the acquisition. That was in 2011-2012, not exactly yesterday.

And ofcourse the impairment of 9,4 billion yen taken in 2017 that puts the whole camera activity of the last 7 years in the loss.

[Mistral75]

Don' t find it difficult at all. (...)

Great! Then please find and report on quotes and/or figures pertaining to the profitability of the Pentax business.

Remember that the Pentax business is part (and only a part) of the 'Smart Vision' activity, which itself accounted for 9.5% of the consolidated sales of the 'Other' division in FY2018/03, which in turn represented 9.7% of Ricoh's consolidated sales.

Good night and good luck.

[K5_Ltd_User]

Great! Then please find and report on quotes and/or figures pertaining to the profitability of the Pentax business.

Remember that the Pentax business is part (and only a part) of the 'Smart Vision' activity, which itself accounted for 9.5% of the consolidated sales of the 'Other' division in FY2018/03, which in turn represented 9.7% of Ricoh's consolidated sales.

Good night and good luck.

Check the slides provided by the mother company (or check the previous thread page for the Ps) .

[reh321]

Japanese companies are said to make decisions based on "the long-run". I have no idea what they see there, nor how it would affect their decision-making.

[Mistral75]

Check the slides provided by the mother company (or check the previous thread page for the Ps) .

There is == nothing == pertaining to the profitability of the 'Pentax' business in these slides.

What is written is that the 'Other' division, 9.5% (FY2018/03) to 10% (Q1 of FY2019/03) of the consolidated sales of which come from 'Smart Vision' (which includes, but is not limited to 'Pentax'), was slightly profitable in FY2018/03 (¥10bn i.e. 4.9%; ¥5.9bn, i.e. 2.9%, when excluding non-recurring items) and in Q1 of FY2019/03 (¥0.4bn, i.e. 0.9%).

In other words, 'Pentax' is included in something that represents 10% of the sales of something much bigger that is slightly profitable. That's all and it doesn't give a clue about the profitability (positive or negative) of the Pentax business.

[rangercarp]

Ricoh bought Pentax for the established QC and Theta (rest can die from what the figures show) .

Ricoh bought Pentax for the Theta? That is interesting! Are we talking about the same Theta that was developed AFTER Ricoh bought Pentax?