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10-01-2018, 03:44 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
(...)
They're mentioning Theta because that's the #1 on its market. They're not mentioning any other camera that wasn't announced in that quarter... and guess what...
When reporting on FY2018/03, during which the K-1 II was announced, they are still not mentioning any other camera than Theta.



10-01-2018, 04:50 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by urssu Quote
Nope. You mention only the big money bringers. It can be plural. Automotive is more lucrative than consumer grade cameras will be. I wasn' t in the meeting to tell you exactly, but from a business stand point, the presentation kind of tells what I said. Trust me, no company says `and others` , unless they are volatile/ uncertain/ of no real interest (customer, products, whatever you think of) .

Also, from my knowledge, 3 years of negative profit (after expecting positive) will lead to a shareholders audit and a revamp of the business unit (cutdowns, or whatever) .
Nope? Have you even watched their financial reports? They'd say things like, "We launched the X camera". Pentax is so small within the Ricoh Group that investors just don't care about particular models. At the end of the presentation there's a Q&A session; I don't remember them asking about consumer camera even once.
No offense but I don't trust guesses and biases - come with proof and we'll talk.

I thought Ricoh Imaging is profitable - why are you talking about 3 years of negative profit?
10-01-2018, 04:56 AM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Nope? Have you even watched their financial reports? They'd say things like, "We launched the X camera". Pentax is so small within the Ricoh Group that investors just don't care about particular models. At the end of the presentation there's a Q&A session; I don't remember them asking about consumer camera even once.
No offense but I don't trust guesses and biases - come with proof and we'll talk.

I thought Ricoh Imaging is profitable - why are you talking about 3 years of negative profit?

I just tell you what the figures tell. Don' t think for one second that a segment/ division in a group will be sustained financially by a company if they finish the fiscal year on a negative, with a trend also. Theta can be switched to a automotive division and consumer grade cameras stopped (sold or moved to Ricoh) . I' ll tell you what. I' ll check the previous years and get back to you, cause numbers don' t lie.

No offense taken, as I just told you what the presentation tells. But as I said, maybe I don' t know how to 'read' one, and Ricoh bought Pentax only to give away money (kindest multinational company I' ve heard of) .


Proof- open the presentations, identify the (sub)division Pentax bellongs to in the Group, read the facts and the predicted FY' s (past, present and future) , compare them with the obtained ones, and go ask around what happens in such Corporations with such results. If Theta is bringing profit but are affiliated to the non- profit group, I think they are struggling to switch (Project Leaders and Engineers alike might not be content by all that comes with it- I know I would) .

Last edited by K5_Ltd_User; 10-01-2018 at 05:25 AM.
10-01-2018, 05:58 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
...with 'celebrations which will take place next year on a regional basis'.

Product announcements would be global by nature, so...
Let's do what's needed to be part of the partying happy few

10-01-2018, 06:26 AM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by urssu Quote
I just tell you what the figures tell. Don' t think for one second that a segment/ division in a group will be sustained financially by a company if they finish the fiscal year on a negative, with a trend also. Theta can be switched to a automotive division and consumer grade cameras stopped (sold or moved to Ricoh) . I' ll tell you what. I' ll check the previous years and get back to you, cause numbers don' t lie.

No offense taken, as I just told you what the presentation tells. But as I said, maybe I don' t know how to 'read' one, and Ricoh bought Pentax only to give away money (kindest multinational company I' ve heard of) .


Proof- open the presentations, identify the (sub)division Pentax bellongs to in the Group, read the facts and the predicted FY' s (past, present and future) , compare them with the obtained ones, and go ask around what happens in such Corporations with such results. If Theta is bringing profit but are affiliated to the non- profit group, I think they are struggling to switch (Project Leaders and Engineers alike might not be content by all that comes with it- I know I would) .
No, you're far from telling me "what the figures tell" - you're speculating a lot.
Don't bother.
10-01-2018, 06:41 AM - 2 Likes   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I thought Ricoh Imaging is profitable - why are you talking about 3 years of negative profit?
QuoteOriginally posted by urssu Quote
I just tell you what the figures tell. Don' t think for one second that a segment/ division in a group will be sustained financially by a company if they finish the fiscal year on a negative, with a trend also. Theta can be switched to a automotive division and consumer grade cameras stopped (sold or moved to Ricoh) . I' ll tell you what. I' ll check the previous years and get back to you, cause numbers don' t lie.

No offense taken, as I just told you what the presentation tells. But as I said, maybe I don' t know how to 'read' one, and Ricoh bought Pentax only to give away money (kindest multinational company I' ve heard of) .

Proof- open the presentations, identify the (sub)division Pentax bellongs to in the Group, read the facts and the predicted FY' s (past, present and future) , compare them with the obtained ones, and go ask around what happens in such Corporations with such results. If Theta is bringing profit but are affiliated to the non- profit group, I think they are struggling to switch (Project Leaders and Engineers alike might not be content by all that comes with it- I know I would) .
You didn't answer question by @Kunzite. From where, specifically, do you get "profits down three years" from?
10-01-2018, 06:50 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
You didn't answer question by @Kunzite. From where, specifically, do you get "profits down three years" from?


Click the link in the first post. Search for profitability. I think in 2017 or 2016 there was - xx% (have to double- check) . Anyway, look at the figures. I didn' t say what Pentax has done (restructuring because of negative FY' s) , cause I myself didn' t check all the data and have no access to Ricoh internal management policies, but merely presented how some companies act (not Pentax' s size, true) .


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10-01-2018, 07:34 AM - 1 Like   #83
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It's very difficult to infer anything concerning Pentax's profitability from Ricoh's reporting. All we know is that the Pentax imaging business Ricoh acquired from Hoya was almost break-even during the 6-month period following the acquisition. That was in 2011-2012, not exactly yesterday.
10-01-2018, 07:39 AM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
It's very difficult to infer anything concerning Pentax's profitability from Ricoh's reporting. All we know is that the Pentax imaging business Ricoh acquired from Hoya was almost break-even during the 6-month period following the acquisition. That was in 2011-2012, not exactly yesterday.


Don' t find it difficult at all. Pentax didn't offer Printing services or anything related to this, thus the division is clear. Numbers speak as I said, I truely believe Pentax was aquired for the Theta technology. It has nothing else to offer in a competitive way (except for the amazing 1% sharpness from a 2 year old sensor at the time of its first release in a competor' s DSLR) ; just look at the number of OEM' s that entered the Mirrorles format, each with different advantages carry over of lenses mostly) . 2 big names plus Panasonic, not to Mention MF (2x) .
Come on...

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10-01-2018, 07:40 AM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
It's very difficult to infer anything concerning Pentax's profitability from Ricoh's reporting. All we know is that the Pentax imaging business Ricoh acquired from Hoya was almost break-even during the 6-month period following the acquisition. That was in 2011-2012, not exactly yesterday.
And ofcourse the impairment of 9,4 billion yen taken in 2017 that puts the whole camera activity of the last 7 years in the loss.
10-01-2018, 07:47 AM - 2 Likes   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by urssu Quote
Don' t find it difficult at all. (...)
Great! Then please find and report on quotes and/or figures pertaining to the profitability of the Pentax business.

Remember that the Pentax business is part (and only a part) of the 'Smart Vision' activity, which itself accounted for 9.5% of the consolidated sales of the 'Other' division in FY2018/03, which in turn represented 9.7% of Ricoh's consolidated sales.

Good night and good luck.
10-01-2018, 07:58 AM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Great! Then please find and report on quotes and/or figures pertaining to the profitability of the Pentax business.

Remember that the Pentax business is part (and only a part) of the 'Smart Vision' activity, which itself accounted for 9.5% of the consolidated sales of the 'Other' division in FY2018/03, which in turn represented 9.7% of Ricoh's consolidated sales.

Good night and good luck.


Check the slides provided by the mother company (or check the previous thread page for the Ps) .
10-01-2018, 08:40 AM   #88
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Japanese companies are said to make decisions based on "the long-run". I have no idea what they see there, nor how it would affect their decision-making.
10-01-2018, 08:58 AM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by urssu Quote
Check the slides provided by the mother company (or check the previous thread page for the Ps) .
There is == nothing == pertaining to the profitability of the 'Pentax' business in these slides.

What is written is that the 'Other' division, 9.5% (FY2018/03) to 10% (Q1 of FY2019/03) of the consolidated sales of which come from 'Smart Vision' (which includes, but is not limited to 'Pentax'), was slightly profitable in FY2018/03 (10bn i.e. 4.9%; 5.9bn, i.e. 2.9%, when excluding non-recurring items) and in Q1 of FY2019/03 (0.4bn, i.e. 0.9%).

In other words, 'Pentax' is included in something that represents 10% of the sales of something much bigger that is slightly profitable. That's all and it doesn't give a clue about the profitability (positive or negative) of the Pentax business.
10-01-2018, 10:31 AM - 4 Likes   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by urssu Quote
Ricoh bought Pentax for the established QC and Theta (rest can die from what the figures show) .
Ricoh bought Pentax for the Theta? That is interesting! Are we talking about the same Theta that was developed AFTER Ricoh bought Pentax?
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