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08-10-2018, 12:17 PM - 2 Likes   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Most of the new 50mm F/1.4 lenses don't have issues with LCA, so it is disappointing to see it in a $1,200 premium lens
For a comparison, amazon.de sells FA 77mm at €923 and D-FA 50mm at €1200. That most legendary of the legendary trio suffers form LCA. To quote opticallimits:
QuoteQuote:
Typical for most large to ultra-large aperture lenses the SMC-FA 77mm f/1.8 Limited suffers also a little bit from reddish to greenish out-of-focus contrast transitions (just in front and behind the focus field).
Those extra €300 and added weight buys you what? Quick and silent AF, weather sealing, wide-open corner sharpness etc. I'm not sure it's correct to say that the D-FA lens is unreasonably expensive.

08-10-2018, 12:19 PM - 2 Likes   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tranzistors Quote
For a comparison, amazon.de sells FA 77mm at €923 and D-FA 50mm at €1200. That most legendary of the legendary trio suffers form LCA. To quote opticallimits:


Those extra €300 and added weight buys you what? Quick and silent AF, weather sealing, wide-open corner sharpness etc. I'm not sure it's correct to say that the D-FA lens is unreasonably expensive.
Haha, there is PF added for free with 77 too!
08-10-2018, 12:21 PM - 1 Like   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
It really depends on the image. Most of the new 50mm F/1.4 lenses don't have issues with LCA, so it is disappointing to see it in a $1,200 premium lens. I have the Sony Zeiss 55mm F/1.8 and the Sony Zeiss 50mm F/1.4 and only the 55mm shows LCA, but not a lot. I have seen some pictures that had to be converted to B&W because of the LCA. A bridal shot with every thing being white. White flowers, white dress, white furniture.... & the purple & green LCA really stood out and screwed up the image. But yeah for the average weekend warrior, LCA isn't that big of a deal..... but for $1,200 its disappointing. How does the Sigma ART 50mm perform?
Actually most do. I've not seen every review but what I have seen shows that the 50 1.4 lenses aren't immune to this and the Pentax seems better than quite a few of these premium lenses.
08-10-2018, 12:27 PM - 1 Like   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by Belnan Quote
not really a review
Indeed. In fact, DPR don't really do proper reviews anymore. At least nothing like they used to do 10-15 years ago.
Recently I was reading up on the Pentax Optio 550, which DPR reviewed in much more thorough fashion than anything
they have produced of late. What is really enlightening is the tone of the 550 review, which is dramatically different than
recent Pentax reviews.
Pentax Optio 550 Review: Digital Photography Review

08-10-2018, 12:57 PM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Right. But when you try to link to the interview to prove it they say they same article talks about the 15-30 and 24-70 in similar language. Of course it doesn't, it talks about Pentax starting to design those lenses and never concludes with info on how hard it was and the level of detail on the DFA 50. But it would be helpful if there were more specific proof to showcase this.
We don't know how much of the lens is tokina and or how much of it is pentaxs design. I have a feeling that both share more of the components then any lens where they have cross shared lens design.
By the looks of it right down to the main body look to have the same design with some minor aesthetic differences.. even when we look at how the lens hood is attached they look to share the same design.
If we look at the lens hood for the tokina you will see they are identical other than a part number and the finished surface.
If we take a look at the pentax hood right down to the access port for a filter are very similar right down to how many groves are located on the hatch and the location the arrow and the open text.
Even how pentax has changed how the part number is written. Most of the lens hoods by pentax the part number went something like PH-RBA then they followed it with the size 55mm same with the PH-RBJ then followed with 77m
however with the 50mm 1.4 they have incorporated the hood size right into the part number PH-RBB72 tokina does a very similar way of identifying their hoods also BH-726

It is also worth noting that this is the first time that I have seen tokina having an access port on one of their lens hoods

I suspect that even the lens barrel would be the same as to how close control and body panels of the lens are too close to be a coincidences.. and even when we look at how the front element of both lenses are attached they are sooo very close and one could even say the same.

If we look at prior lenses they swapped lens designs with they are utterly different

Last edited by Ian Stuart Forsyth; 08-10-2018 at 01:11 PM.
08-10-2018, 01:00 PM   #81
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08-10-2018, 01:04 PM - 1 Like   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth Quote
We don't know how much of the lens is tokina and or how much of it is pentaxs design.
IIRC, someone said weeks ago the patents are all Pentax, not Tokina.

Tokina traditionally are a zoom manufacturer, they're getting Pentax expertise here.

08-10-2018, 04:24 PM - 9 Likes   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth Quote
We don't know how much of the lens is tokina and or how much of it is pentaxs design. I have a feeling that both share more of the components then any lens where they have cross shared lens design.
By the looks of it right down to the main body look to have the same design with some minor aesthetic differences.. even when we look at how the lens hood is attached they look to share the same design.
If we look at the lens hood for the tokina you will see they are identical other than a part number and the finished surface.
If we take a look at the pentax hood right down to the access port for a filter are very similar right down to how many groves are located on the hatch and the location the arrow and the open text.
Even how pentax has changed how the part number is written. Most of the lens hoods by pentax the part number went something like PH-RBA then they followed it with the size 55mm same with the PH-RBJ then followed with 77m
however with the 50mm 1.4 they have incorporated the hood size right into the part number PH-RBB72 tokina does a very similar way of identifying their hoods also BH-726

It is also worth noting that this is the first time that I have seen tokina having an access port on one of their lens hoods

I suspect that even the lens barrel would be the same as to how close control and body panels of the lens are too close to be a coincidences.. and even when we look at how the front element of both lenses are attached they are sooo very close and one could even say the same.

If we look at prior lenses they swapped lens designs with they are utterly different
I saw that you posted something similar on DP Review. For some reason or other everyone's assumption is that Pentax couldn't possibly come up with a lens on its own and they must have had some help to even have something even passable. This is a problematic standpoint. Pentax has a longer and richer history of lens development than Tokina does and while their initial forays with in lens motors weren't great, the DFA 150-450, DFA *70-200 and many of the DC motored lenses prove without a doubt that they have figure out how to build lenses with in lens motors -- without someone else's help.

If Tokina is using the same motor as Pentax, the assumption has to be made that Pentax gave them a lens design in more detail than in the past and included recommendations for the lens motor. Tokina doesn't build lens motors. They buy them, the same as they buy the glass blanks they use. The fact that Pentax and Tokina use the same source for lens motors means very little in this setting.

Frankly, I am irked that Pentax designs and produces an excellent lens, releases it months before Tokina does so and people come out of the wood work to say that it is designed, at least partially, by Tokina. People, who I may add, have absolutely no information at all, but only a large amount of speculation based on staring at photos and diagrams of lenses and then adding up two and two and coming up with a Tokina designed lens.

I should mention that a big difference between the Tokina and the Pentax versions of this lens will be in the lens coatings and Pentax coatings are significantly better than Tokina's particularly their newest ones. The assumption has to be that the DFA *50 will be a better performer than the Tokina in many situations, even though they share the same optical formula.

Last edited by Rondec; 08-10-2018 at 06:14 PM.
08-10-2018, 05:31 PM - 2 Likes   #84
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News flash!

If you try really hard it is possible to produce some purple fringing with this lens.

f/1.4 in strong post-storm morning sun


LaCA Torture test

Of course, one click in Lightroom and it's gone

"almost impossible to remove"
What a bunch of tossers
08-10-2018, 06:21 PM - 1 Like   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
purple fringing
Always happens with my Jackaranda tree!
08-10-2018, 06:48 PM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth Quote
We don't know how much of the lens is tokina and or how much of it is pentaxs design. I have a feeling that both share more of the components then any lens where they have cross shared lens design.
Actually we do. Ricoh has published a fairly detailed article about the design of the DFA* 50. Pentax regards the lens as an exemplification of their imaging philosophy.

There is no evidence that Pentax ever "colaborated" with Tokina. Rather, they seemed to have licensed a fair amount of lens designs to that company. Pentax licensed one design from Tokina, for the DA 12-24. Curiously enough, Masakazu Saori, the chief designer of the DFA* 50, also designed, as his first lens for the company, a 12-24 f3.5-4.5, but the Pentax managers of the time must have thought it not quite good enough, because they went with the Tokina design.
08-10-2018, 06:50 PM - 1 Like   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I saw that you posted something similar on DP Review. For some reason or other everyone's assumption is that Pentax couldn't possibly come up with a lens on its own and they must have had some help to even have something even passable.
Never had I said that pentax could not come up with a lens of its own, However I have said that they might have jointly went into developing the lens and jointly sharing the cost of the lenses development together thru the use of share the design and this can include the lens barrel and all of its moving parts, the lens motor, and even how the elements are fastened to the lens who knows. If we look back at the previous partner ship the lenses are altogether different looking beasts right down to the lens barrel designs, the only time that we can tell they are of the same optical design is via them tell us or looking at the patients.




If we look at the lens hood


I am just pointing out that this is much more than a simple optical design swap and that probably most of the internal components are being supplied by the same manufactures to both tokina and pentax as a way of spreading the cost. Also tokina prides itself on manufacturing their own lens bodies and barrels so they are probably are the suppliers of that component. Most of the time tokinas lens bodies are over built when compared to other manufactures

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
If Tokina is using the same motor as Pentax, the assumption has to be made that Pentax gave them a lens design in more detail than in the past and included recommendations for the lens motor, including the name of the supplier of said motor.
The 70-200 F4 has been out and in product well before pentax has hinted of the 50 being designed I have a feeling that it was the other way around.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Frankly, I am irked that Pentax designs and produces an excellent lens, releases it months before Tokina does so and people come out of the wood work to say that it is designed, at least partially, by Tokina. People, who I may add, have absolutely no information at all, but only a large amount of speculation based on staring at photos and diagrams of lenses and then adding up two and two and coming up with a Tokina designed lens.
Your irked at the idea that pentax welcomes the idea that they may have decided to share some of the production, outsourcing supplies like lens motors, the lens substructures,the iris , lens blanks from Hoya (a parent company with tokina and kenko) and the . If I think pentax had done all of this on their own outsourcing supplies like lens blanks that the cost would be more inline with what other companies offering in this caliber of lens.

---------- Post added 08-10-2018 at 06:55 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
Actually we do. Ricoh has published a fairly detailed article about the design of the DFA* 50. Pentax regards the lens as an exemplification of their imaging philosophy.
I always take this with a grain of salt if I was to believe every manufactures claims out there I would have to believe that the sensor found in the D850 was designed by Nikon, have a look at there staged interview inside their labs if you don't believe me, That is of course if we ignore the Sony's part number found on the sensor.

Last edited by Ian Stuart Forsyth; 08-10-2018 at 06:58 PM.
08-10-2018, 07:19 PM - 2 Likes   #88
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Entirely predictable.


I've said it before and I know people don't want to hear it. But Ricoh's inadequate and antiquated marketing efforts lead to products being released in a marketing vacuum with no narrative.

Others will be happy to step in and define your products for you.

It is not for me but this 50mm seems to be stellar, perhaps class leading short of the top end Zeiss glass.

Why no fanfare claiming it to be so. Let the reviewers do a head to head against Sigma, Canon, Nikon glass and prove otherwise.
08-10-2018, 11:09 PM - 1 Like   #89
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I for one don't avoid DPR, but even if I didn't have an ad-blocker I wouldn't click on their advertising as I don't want them to profit from me. I can read anything they publish but I know full-well that they're biased against Pentax (not against any other brand as far as I'm aware) and are biased towards Canon, Nikon and Sony. Bearing that in mind I think that what they publish can be useful, even if I know it's not accurate.

Others who aren't aware of this bias, such as people just getting into photography and looking for a first camera, will unfortunately get pulled into the trap, though most of them will be brainwashed into believing that Canon and Nikon are always best anyway.
08-11-2018, 01:23 AM - 2 Likes   #90
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Barney Britton from DPREVIEW
"An Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) is a company that produces parts and equipment that may be marketed by another manufacturer."

Did I get that wrong?


Of course, he is wrong. Who is the OEM manufacturer in this story?

Ricoh as the manufacturer of DFA*50/1.4 is original manufacturer. Ricoh markets DFA*50/1.4, Tokina will market the same optical design lens. Tokina is not OEM manufacturer too. Tokina will produce all components herself under licence of Ricoh.

OEMs are often understood as enterprises that perform only the assemblage of products on the design documentation of a third-party customer, but do not perform their own design work. If he tells that Ricoh is OEM manufacturer, it means he stretches the truth.

It means Tokina made all work and Ricoh just assembles DFA*50/1.4. The oprical design, development and components are made by Tokina.


It seems to me he try to play words to justify his position.
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