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08-12-2018, 04:11 AM - 2 Likes   #136
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Edit: It is interesting as well that over on DP Review, Ian comments that, " I also have a feeling that pentax no longer has the capacity to apply lens coatings and is having Hoya doing the processing for pentax using pentax coatings." Which seems ludicrous to me. Coatings are huge for Pentax and yes, they have made investment in the machines necessary to apply them.
That's ridiculous. It's starting to look like a continued bashing campaign...

Ricoh Imaging continued the development of new coating, and that's a fact (provable with patents).

08-12-2018, 05:13 AM - 2 Likes   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
If they were going to license it to Tokina from the start, then it is logical that Tokina also had some say about the optical formula. Hence co-designed. I think this was done to share development costs. It is costly to develop new lenses and Pentax isn't going to sell a whole lot on their own. Tokina can sell them to Canonikon users which their are a whole lot more of than Pentaxians.
So far, I believe Pentax has sold hundreds more than Tokina.
08-12-2018, 06:24 AM   #138
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Of course Tokina wants their lens to look like the DFA*50. They know how good the Pentax lens is and want to be considered on par, hence copying the visible styling as much as possible to make the lens look and feel like the original Pentax design.
08-12-2018, 06:34 AM - 2 Likes   #139
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I deleted my link to DPR from my browser a while back and sincerely have not missed them...

08-12-2018, 06:59 AM - 7 Likes   #140
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Can we all just get over this and enjoy what is a fantastic lens and a triumph for Pentax?
08-12-2018, 07:24 AM - 1 Like   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Can we all just get over this and enjoy what is a fantastic lens and a triumph for Pentax?

exactly

we all know that DPR is not pro-Pentax, but we have no problems dragging that muck over here and wallowing in it....
08-12-2018, 07:25 AM   #142
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Can we all just get over this and enjoy what is a fantastic lens and a triumph for Pentax?
Well, it's sort of about wanting people outside this community to know that

08-12-2018, 07:43 AM - 1 Like   #143
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Can we all just get over this and enjoy what is a fantastic lens and a triumph for Pentax?
My thoughts exactly. It has been well covered how DP review hate Pentax and they are not alone. Sometimes it is difficult to watch your favourite get unjustifiably trashed, its the same with football teams, but when the detractor does it all the time you get to the stage where we say "he is a bell end, move on!". I but no store by their opinions because they are permanently slanted and Ill informed and therefore, not worth wasting my time reading. Forum members know the truth and if I want to buy something, I ask you lot you haven't led me astray yet
08-12-2018, 08:02 AM - 3 Likes   #144
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Can we all just get over this and enjoy what is a fantastic lens and a triumph for Pentax?
DPR has learned the value of clickbaiting Pentax users with crappy, erroneous reviews. They even made a sockpupppet @dpthoughts to stir up the outrage. Don’t fall for it. I don’t know what motivates Ian, but I don’t care. The lens is fabulous - worth every dollar.

Call me one of the rich guys if you want. I don’t care. This is the only thing I spend money on. No debt, simple lifestyle, old, inexpensive cars. And camera gear. I hope I get banned over there for giving them the longbow.
08-12-2018, 08:24 AM - 3 Likes   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
DPR has learned the value of clickbaiting Pentax users with crappy, erroneous reviews. They even made a sockpupppet @dpthoughts to stir up the outrage. Don’t fall for it. I don’t know what motivates Ian, but I don’t care. The lens is fabulous - worth every dollar.

Call me one of the rich guys if you want. I don’t care. This is the only thing I spend money on. No debt, simple lifestyle, old, inexpensive cars. And camera gear. I hope I get banned over there for giving them the longbow.
Monochrome, you're one of the rich guys.

OK now check and see if you care.

You might not know for sure until it happens.

Can we not use the profanity filter to take DPR off Pentax forums.?

Is this because Amazon is trying to make DPR profitable and they are trying to coerce Pentax into paying for favourable reviews?

Honestly, I'm not sure this doesn't violate Canada's slander laws. In Canada you can say anything that based on the facts a reasonable person could believe. I'm not sure the DPR stuff meets that threshold.
08-12-2018, 08:28 AM - 2 Likes   #146
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Monochrome, you're one of the rich guys.

OK now check and see if you care.

You might not know for sure until it happens.

Can we not use the profanity filter to take DPR off Pentax forums.?

Is this because Amazon is trying to make DPR profitable and they are trying to coerce Pentax into paying for favourable reviews?

Honestly, I'm not sure this doesn't violate Canada's slander laws. In Canada you can say anything that based on the facts a reasonable person could believe. I'm not sure the DPR stuff meets that threshold.
It took 4 decades to get here. I don’t care. I’d rather be this guy than the other guy.

Last edited by monochrome; 08-12-2018 at 09:40 AM.
08-12-2018, 08:53 AM - 5 Likes   #147
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
If they were going to license it to Tokina from the start, then it is logical that Tokina also had some say about the optical formula.
I must have a different sense of logic, I don't find it logical at all. Did Pentax have some say about the optical formula of the 12-24/4? If so, what was the point of licensing the design? Pentax already had an in-house 12-24 design (a variable aperture design).

If you read the write-ups at pentax.com and Jun Hirakawa's white paper on the FA 77, Pentax has a specific imaging philosophy that sets it apart from the mainstream trends in the camera industry, which emphasize camera specs and numerical tests at the expense of subjective aesthetic judgment and appreciation. This places Pentax at odds with the review community, which, generally speaking, worships technology for technology's sake and is in the tank for numerical specs. I don't expect the review community to ever be completely fair to Pentax because (1) the review community doesn't understand what Pentax is trying to accomplish (i.e., Pentax's imaging philosophy); and (2) to the extent that the review community is capable of understanding Pentax's imaging philosophy, they would be inclined to disagree with and oppose it.

Pentax and Tokina don't have the same imaging design philosophy. Pentax, when designing lenses that are supposed to express their imaging philosophy (namely, star and limited lenses), are not going to compromise the philosophy behind their top lenses by collaborating with a company that does not share their vision.
08-12-2018, 09:01 AM - 1 Like   #148
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
It is interesting as well that over on DP Review, Ian comments that, " I also have a feeling that pentax no longer has the capacity to apply lens coatings and is having Hoya doing the processing for pentax using pentax coatings." Which seems ludicrous to me.
Some times I view posts by posters on my ignore list and I have discovered that once some people get off their hobby horse, they have worthwhile things to say. Hasn't happened yet with this particular poster.


If people didn't become so emotionally attached to the things they buy, they wouldn't feel the need to assuage their insecurities by denigrating people who buy competiting products. Fortunately, the dozen or so most aggregious offenders are vastly outnumbered by the posters who like to share their joy of photography, which they happen to do with Pentax products.
08-12-2018, 09:15 AM - 8 Likes   #149
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I could care less about "DPR", "Tokina", and "patents". All I care about is this new lenses' image quality on a K1 body! Specifically, its' IQ at wider apertures (after all, isn't that why we buy fast lenses?).

From the examples I've seen posted on the Internet (including those taken by our own Sandy Hancock ) I'm seeing lots of wide aperture images with bokeh that is BETTER than what I'm getting from my Zeiss and Leica lenses!

I own a mint copy of the Zeiss ZF Milvus 50mm f/1.4 lens (Leitaxed to K mount of course). It's the same cost as this new Pentax lens. I'd trade my Zeiss Milvus 50/1.4 for this new FA 50/1.4 in a heartbeat!

In time, I expect that this new Pentax 50mm lens will be proven to be "world class" when shot at wide apertures.

Last edited by Fenwoodian; 08-12-2018 at 01:06 PM.
08-12-2018, 09:21 AM - 2 Likes   #150
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Is this because Amazon is trying to make DPR profitable and they are trying to coerce Pentax into paying for favourable reviews?
DPR isn't a husband and wife making videos and selling online advertising out of their home. They have a physical office in Seattle and several paid staff (some with degrees!), in my opinion if DPR manages to cover their operating expenses, that would be amazing. DPR is such a small part of Amazon's business that no one will be asking for the business case to justify any losses; as long as the portfolio manager responsible for DPR can point to its high ranking in visits, that should be good enough to keep all those highly qualified staffers employed for another year.
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
In Canada you can say anything that based on the facts a reasonable person could believe. I'm not sure the DPR stuff meets that threshold.
As long as you don't express opinions related to gender or some other type of visible distinctiveness, the threshold for online publishing is incredibly low. It's ironic, in return for being "free," the Internet is buried 6 miles deep in garbage.
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