[SSGGeezer]

Some times I view posts by posters on my ignore list and I have discovered that once some people get off their hobby horse, they have worthwhile things to say.

The Ability to Boris Cleto an annoying poster is a wonderful feature that allows me to not go normal internet on people saying ignorant things.

[normhead]

The Ability to Boris Cleto an annoying poster is a wonderful feature that allows me to not go normal internet on people saying ignorant things.

There are many people who have a lot of good things to say on my ignore list. The way they say it bends me the wrong way, and quite often that's mutual. And at this point in my life, I'm not really looking for answers. I'm finding it difficult making use of what I already know.

[SSGGeezer]

There are many people who have a lot of good things to say on my ignore list. The way they say it bends me the wrong way, and quite often that's mutual. And at this point in my life, I'm not really looking for answers. I'm finding it difficult making use of what I already know.

I just use it so I don't tell someone what an idiot they are. That seems to be frowned upon here at PF. Good practice for if I decide to go back to work!.

[Cerebum]

Makes me wonder just how many ignore lists I am on, I bet its quite a few


BTW, Who is Boris Cleto?

[Ian Stuart Forsyth]

If they were going to license it to Tokina from the start, then it is logical that Tokina also had some say about the optical formula. Hence co-designed. I think this was done to share development costs. It is costly to develop new lenses and Pentax isn't going to sell a whole lot on their own. Tokina can sell them to Canonikon users which their are a whole lot more of than Pentaxians.

We don't know how much of it is Co designed and what is meant as co designed

If they are using Hoya as a optical glass supplier it would be as in any industry to consult with that companies that produces the product and also consult them more so if they are the ones building one of the key components.

Hoya is more than likely going to be the company to supply the lens blanks and the lens formulas for the different properties of those lens blanks, we can also with a degree of certainty believe that Hoya will be grinding and polishing the lenses for both tokina and pentax. With these kind of arrangements Pentax would be heavily consulted with the engineers that are formulating the different lens blanks and again in the final grinding and polishing of the lenses. In everyone of these steps in the production they will be real lying on the skill, knowledge, lens formulas , precision and tolerance's of Hoyas equipment and engineers In the design of the final optical formula. Companies that supply these kinds of services do a lot behind the scene consulting that can greatly influence the final design of the lens.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Temp/Temp/i-zPvftRC/0/9dd891a0/O/d4ea3105e14f42e9...48aa0086a6.jpg
Leaked photo
Here is also another hint to the puzzle the image of the leaked lens motor from an unpublished web page has a geo tag locating it right here

Google Maps

Take a look at what is to the left of that building What does this mean I don't know? All I know is that someone took a image of a webpage that has never seen the light of day until the last few weeks and at that location Zeiss is around the corner.

---------- Post added 08-12-2018 at 11:32 PM ----------

I believe he is trying to prove that Pentax needed Tokina's help to design this lens.

Much of the time if the company is not building the lens, as in the formula of the glass in the lens blanks to the grinding of the lenses the yes I have a feeling that Tokina Hoya will have influence in the design.

---------- Post added 08-12-2018 at 11:35 PM ----------

It feels very much as though people (who don't shoot Pentax) are trying to steal Pentax's glory in what would be an otherwise exceptional lens release.

No just pointing out that this lens is a first between the 2 company's with this kind of similarity that we have never witnessed before

[beholder3]

If people didn't become so emotionally attached to the things they buy,

The saddest part are leftovers who for some psycho reasons stalk their ex-forums like someone who split up with his first wife and then years later still crashes her birthday parties uninvited, often stubbornly inventing tales around how she wasn't table to even cook meals alone without help.

You sure are right in that part of the reason is insecurity about the quality of new girlfriend which needs to be supported by downplaying the old wife.

When challenged about why they feel the urge for stalking, they often explain that they still own an old sock of their ex wife and so still belong on that party. And they would never admit to trolling. They just "explain" the world to the new husband.

Ignore lists do help here, as those kids don't contribute anything meaningful, but actually some professional help to cure the lack of education and social skills would be way more important.

[Ian Stuart Forsyth]

Edit: It is interesting as well that over on DP Review, Ian comments that, " I also have a feeling that pentax no longer has the capacity to apply lens coatings and is having Hoya doing the processing for pentax using pentax coatings." Which seems ludicrous to me. Coatings are huge for Pentax and yes, they have made investment in the machines necessary to apply them.

I have not seen anything that would point me to seeing that pentax made these investments


A lot of the revenue that would help cover the cost of keeping this equipment up to date is lost to pentax/Ricoh, This includes the medical division, eyecare and even measuring equipment is no longer helping to differ the cost all that are not part of Ricohs held trademark. Many companies that use lens coatings with much larger product runs still rely on outsourcing to third parties, heck that is a big part of Hoya's business. The major reason why is that they can often times do it cheaper with more up to date equipment with greater tolerances.

[Zygonyx]

The tone more than the stated facts are where it goes wrong. I skimmed it and read every comment. The elements of a good review are there but the emphasis seems to have been placed on the negatives.

Inherently to their concept, DPR must write a permanent clickbait tale.

Their businessmodel implies that they find good boys and bad boys around their stories, for their stories to be read by an increasing assistance.

For that sake, Pentax is the ideal bad boy : low marketshares, no marketing/advert participations, erratic novelties, atypic products, some would say prehistoric technos (no 4K, no ML, no tactile screens, ...).
Most of which, very few new products ; therefore low impact on the dominant overconsommation oriented mantras in our declining world.

[fs999]

I'm wondering if Ricoh pay these bad tests so that the Pentaxists can stand together

[Kunzite]

I have not seen anything that would point me to seeing that pentax made these investments


A lot of the revenue that would help cover the cost of keeping this equipment up to date is lost to pentax/Ricoh, This includes the medical division, eyecare and even measuring equipment is no longer helping to differ the cost all that are not part of Ricohs held trademark. Many companies that use lens coatings with much larger product runs still rely on outsourcing to third parties, heck that is a big part of Hoya's business. The major reason why is that they can often times do it cheaper with more up to date equipment with greater tolerances.

You have not seen anything that would point you to the contrary. Is the argument from ignorance the best you can come up with?
Do you have any proof that Hoya developed the ABC II coating?

Factory automation. 3D cameras for automotive. Surveillance.
It doesn't have to be endoscopes.

[fromunderthebridge]

Policitician X may or may not have fiddled a kid back in the 80's.
Ricoh may or may not have created lens design/coatings/whatever.
We just don't know...

See a pattern here? Using "an argument" even when it's not. Minimal perceived liability, maximal fud.

I don't even want to bother.. just tossing it out there (see what I did there? similar non-committed post! I can do this too.)

[ffking]

The trend I mentioned earlier on the DPR thread of people claiming no dog in the fight saying they found the hands-on review surprisingly negative in tone is definitely continuing - including people saying they always thought that Pentaxians were over-reacting to a perceived negative bias but now they're not so sure - maybe DPR isn't as objective as t should be - and the usual suspect trolls are getting no traction - people talking about not buying camera gear from Amazon: Maybe it's too much to hope that a tide has turned, but there is something different in the air.

[krazykat]

The saddest part are leftovers who for some psycho reasons stalk their ex-forums like someone who split up with his first wife and then years later still crashes her birthday parties uninvited, often stubbornly inventing tales around how she wasn't table to even cook meals alone without help.

You sure are right in that part of the reason is insecurity about the quality of new girlfriend which needs to be supported by downplaying the old wife.

When challenged about why they feel the urge for stalking, they often explain that they still own an old sock of their ex wife and so still belong on that party. And they would never admit to trolling. They just "explain" the world to the new husband.

Ignore lists do help here, as those kids don't contribute anything meaningful, but actually some professional help to cure the lack of education and social skills would be way more important.

Haha, this is the best post on the forum! Awesome.

[Rondec]

I have not seen anything that would point me to seeing that pentax made these investments


A lot of the revenue that would help cover the cost of keeping this equipment up to date is lost to pentax/Ricoh, This includes the medical division, eyecare and even measuring equipment is no longer helping to differ the cost all that are not part of Ricohs held trademark. Many companies that use lens coatings with much larger product runs still rely on outsourcing to third parties, heck that is a big part of Hoya's business. The major reason why is that they can often times do it cheaper with more up to date equipment with greater tolerances.

It is difficult for either of us to prove this when neither of us have been in Pentax's production facilities. Still, folks like Asahiman indicated that Ricoh had spent millions of dollars on machines to apply HD coatings to lens more rapidly, soon after their purchase of Pentax. Beyond which, if you have ever used top end Hoya multi coated lenses, the coatings are nowhere nearly as advanced as those on Pentax HD and ABC coated lenses.

This whole conversation smacks of the weird conspiracy theories that politicians spin out. Things like "Have you ever seen Obama's birth certificate?" I can't prove anything about what Pentax does and doesn't do. In fact, I can't prove that Pentax lenses aren't actually manufactured by smurfs, but clearly Pentax holds the patents to multiple lens coatings -- ABC, ABC II and HD among them -- and their web site is pretty specific about the application processes. It doesn't sound to me like a company who is outsourcing all of this -- nor do I think Pentax would trust a competitor (and Hoya is a competitor) with their lens coating tech.

[Kunzite]

This is one of the coating-related patents belonging to Ricoh Imaging:
??6361095 | ???????IP Force?

I need something more than pure speculation to believe that Ricoh Imaging continued to develop new coatings, but would rely on Hoya for applying them.