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08-13-2018, 06:58 AM   #196
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QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
You could only spot minor differences due to coatings and so on, but since they're essentially the same lens, well...
The image quality difference between the Tamron 24-70 and the Pentax 24-70 due to inferior Tamron coatings is anything but "minor":
HD24-70mmWR-006 | Robert Mitchell | Flickr
There is no evidence of Tokina having better coatings than Tamron.

08-13-2018, 07:10 AM   #197
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QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
1. as previously noted, those two cameras have the same sensor;
Of course, so when my K-1 sensor needs repairing or replacing I could go and get one from a Nikon D810 seeing they are the same!Yore not close.2.
QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
3. there wouldn't be much point in testing the Pentax against the Tokina Opera, since Tokina just licensed the design from Pentax. You could only spot minor differences due to coatings and so on, but since they're essentially the same lens, well...


---------- Post added 08-14-18 at 01:13 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
The image quality difference between the Tamron 24-70 and the Pentax 24-70 due to inferior Tamron coatings is anything but "minor":
:....................................................................................................................
08-13-2018, 08:46 AM   #198
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Of course, so when my K-1 sensor needs repairing or replacing I could go and get one from a Nikon D810 seeing they are the same!Yore not close.2.


---------- Post added 08-14-18 at 01:13 AM ----------

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You're closer to troll that you ever have been and that's something to say.
Anything to bring to the table other than this? Really?
08-13-2018, 08:50 AM   #199
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
The image quality difference between the Tamron 24-70 and the Pentax 24-70 due to inferior Tamron coatings is anything but "minor":
HD24-70mmWR-006 | Robert Mitchell | Flickr
There is no evidence of Tokina having better coatings than Tamron.
That's not a direct comparison between the Tamron and Pentax HD coating, isn't it?
It says, "conventional multi-coating" vs. "HD coating". And yeah, it was a pain to figure out the two kanji.

08-13-2018, 08:56 AM - 2 Likes   #200
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
It's going back to the way it's been since most of the history of the companies. You have to give Sigma credit for being first with the fat lenses, but I don't think any third party company can put the money into exemplary lenses an OEM with a dedicated user base can. It was only a matter of time.

---------- Post added 08-13-18 at 09:20 AM ----------


Dead on. Also big credit for sigma for getting up there and step up their game. Fat lenses is needed for optimum performance. Pentax has taken that challenge and are stepping it up all the way to top from early 2000->2018. (Talking about 70-200 and 50 here). And there is more to come. Great thing was that they did not waste time with 15-30 and 24-70, because they were good enough. Small camera company has to be smart.
08-13-2018, 10:09 AM   #201
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Hold on just a moment. Ran out of popcorn. Popping a new batch.
08-13-2018, 10:29 AM - 1 Like   #202
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Sigma lenses have improved over time -- a lot. That said, they have the same issues that any third party lenses can have. They may not function perfectly with camera bodies with regard to auto focus. The lens build may not be the best (this may not be visible externally, but have to do with the quality of internal parts that aren't visible). The coatings may not measure up to those of Nikon and Pentax. These same issues apply to Tokina.

For me, the biggest issue with Sigma and Tokina is that their newest lenses aren't available in k mount and so regardless of how good they are, they aren't on my radar.

08-13-2018, 10:29 AM   #203
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QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
If they stop worrying about how you look and start concerning themselves with telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth (even if only the truth as they honestly see it and are open to correction) it's really not so difficult
Alas, man hath pride.
08-13-2018, 10:44 AM   #204
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QuoteOriginally posted by fromunderthebridge Quote
Alas, man hath pride.
I know it's not what you're saying, but I think there's a lot of pride to be had in having a reputation for truthfulness and honesty
08-13-2018, 11:06 AM   #205
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
You have to give Sigma credit for being first with the fat lenses
??? Surely the DA*55 preceded the Sigma ART range as being the first of the 'fat' lenses?
08-13-2018, 11:11 AM   #206
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QuoteOriginally posted by robbiec Quote
??? Surely the DA*55 preceded the Sigma ART range as being the first of the 'fat' lenses?
I wouldn't consider the DA *55 a "fat" lens. It weighs 375 grams and 7.7 by 6.6 cm and uses 58 mm filters. The hood almost doubles its size, but without that it really isn't big at all.

On the other hand, the Sigma 50mm Art is 8.5 by 10 cm, weighs 815 grams and uses 77mm filters. Definitely a little bit different beast there.
08-13-2018, 11:20 AM - 3 Likes   #207
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I wouldn't consider the DA *55 a "fat" lens. It weighs 375 grams and 7.7 by 6.6 cm and uses 58 mm filters. The hood almost doubles its size, but without that it really isn't big at all.
Ah, but remember you have to multiply those figures by 2.3 to get the FF equivalent
08-13-2018, 11:27 AM - 2 Likes   #208
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QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
Ah, but remember you have to multiply those figures by 2.3 to get the FF equivalent
But I use my DA *55 on full frame all of the time...

08-13-2018, 02:44 PM   #209
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
You're closer to troll that you ever have been and that's something to say.
Of course, says a judgemental judge.
08-13-2018, 03:02 PM - 6 Likes   #210
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QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
maybe DPR isn't as objective as t should be - and the usual suspect trolls are getting no traction - people talking about not buying camera gear from Amazon: Maybe it's too much to hope that a tide has turned, but there is something different in the air.
I guess we can always hope that the tide will turn. The fact is, I don't think the notion of having an independent so-called "objective" review site associated with a store like Amazon is a good idea. Cameras gear, especially lenses, have to be judged in terms of the images they produce, and the images themselves can only be judged aesthetically, which means "subjectively." The tendency with these review sites — not just DPR — is for them to be dominated by nerds who worship technology like it's some kind of religion and who believe that only what can be measured is fully real or significant. Now the fact is, people with that kind of mentality are never going to give Pentax a fair shake. Pentax has never been about worshipping technology for its own sake or producing lenses that only achieve numerical goals but are otherwise without merit. If you go over to the pentax.com site or their lens catalog, they're constantly reiterating this message that technological and numerical goals must be balanced by sensory and aesthetic goals. "PENTAX engineers are always working toward the realization of images that are rich in detail and gradation; achieving this goal often means valuing sensory evaluations over numerical evaluations." "Realizing the ideal imaging concept included extremely detailed activities, because PENTAX places as much importance on the human perception of beauty as the company does in numerical evaluations." "In the age of advanced technologies, PENTAX still places great importance on human sensibilities, something that is in complete opposition to much of today’s technological advancement. For PENTAX, this is the primary source for attaining exceptional image quality. Achieving this goal requires a large number of actual images capturing different types of subjects, and taken in varying photographic conditions. Among the PENTAX engineers are a group of photo enthusiasts specializing in such fields as portraiture, landscape and astronomical photography. Every weekend, they take test models out into the field, and shoot photographs without attracting people’s attention to the models that are still under development. In fact, this has become routine work for them." This is not, as some skeptics might suggest, a cynical marketing ploy. Jun Hirakawa pretty much indicated a similar outlook in his white paper on the FA 77 published nearly twenty years ago. Pentax cameras and lenses manifest a specific philosophy that essentially challenges the views that tend to prevail at places like DPR. Now while the reviewers at DPR may not consciously understand or know what Pentax's philosophy is, this very lack of knowledge makes it impossible for them to appreciate a lens like the DFA* 50. They can only judge the lens on its technical merits. They are blind to the lens' non-measurable excellences — to its bokeh, its rendering, its transitions from object to background, from in focus to out of focus, its ability to portray a sense of depth, etc. etc. Since these things can't be measured, they don't exist for the DPR reviewers. This is one of the many challenges Pentax is facing — that they find themselves in opposition to this nihilistic scientism/positivism that prevails within the reviewer community.
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