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08-28-2018, 01:00 PM   #151
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
The 645D had a price of 9.999 euro in shops in 2010. Now in 2018 a 645Z is 5.999 euro. So making a profit is not as easy as it was. Yet one 645Z sale with a lens does bring a lot of money. Compared to a K-70, maybe the profit is 100x that of a sale of the K-70. So putting energy in it can pay of. Does it still now with competition from Fujifilm and Hasselblad? I don't know, but my guess is that it doesn't anymore.
Don’t forget that retail price is not what RIcoh gets at the factory. The Distributor buys them from Ricoh and marks them up (even if the Distributor is a division of RIcoh Imaging). The retailer then buys them and marks them up again, so retail price and to a lesser degree sales are not directly indicative of profit to RIcoh Imaging.

In the case of the 645d/z it is quite likely development costs have been fully amortized and component costs have declined markedly since initial releases.

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Last edited by monochrome; 08-28-2018 at 03:24 PM.
08-29-2018, 01:01 AM   #152
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QuoteOriginally posted by sbh Quote
I'd love to see something like that.

Today I got a newsletter from Phase One where they announced their new MF System:
- 151 MP Sensor (MF full frame)
- XQD +SD Slots
- WiFi tethering + USB-C + Ethernet connector and no limits for cable length
Phase One XF IQ4 digital backs offer up to 150MP and 'Capture One Inside': Digital Photography Review

The three XF IQ4 backs will ship in October and include the camera body and prism and the Blue Ring prime lens of your choice. Prices range from from $47,990 for the IQ4 100MP to $54,990 for the IQ4 150MP Achromatic.

The Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price for the XF IQ4 Camera Systems (including XF camera body and prism, a Blue Ring prime lens of your choice, 5-year warranty and 5-year uptime guarantee) are:

XF IQ4 150MP Camera System: $51,990 USD
XF IQ4 100MP Trichromatic Camera System: $47,990 USD
XF IQ4 150MP Achromatic Camera System: $54,990 USD
08-29-2018, 01:25 AM - 2 Likes   #153
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
XF IQ4 150MP Camera System: $51,990 USD
XF IQ4 100MP Trichromatic Camera System: $47,990 USD
XF IQ4 150MP Achromatic Camera System: $54,990 USD
Pocket lint....
08-29-2018, 01:35 AM   #154
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pete82 Quote
I always see a rhino in your avatar, until I take a closer look at it.
HaHa - me too!

08-29-2018, 01:40 AM   #155
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The next 645 has to be 100Mp to compete, but I'd want that to be non-cropped to retain the IQ. Then I'd be glad that I can't possibly afford it, though I'd be even gladder if I could easily afford it, because those are the only non-painful options.
08-29-2018, 01:51 AM   #156
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Hi all,
A Teta With For Heads !
Pentax is chronically in late to realase new projects.
What's the futur for K-p series ?
I heard they put all the programming algorithms of their autofocus in the trash to start from zero.
I seriously guess Pentax works on the K-3 III, with the technological advances of the P, and a new Safox with more points and a new sensor.
BR.
Fanfoué
08-29-2018, 02:49 AM - 2 Likes   #157
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I'm not sure what folks having been smoking here on the Forum based on some of the ideas in this thread. 645Z update or K3 II sequel seem most likely from camera body standpoints. Lens mock-ups --DFA *85 and DA *11-15 seem possible as well. I wouldn't expect much yet, honestly. Probably spring of next year before we see the next wave of releases. Pentaxians shouldn't set their hopes too high. We got the DFA *50 this year, which by all accounts is a stellar lens. There will be more in the future, just not as fast as we'd like them (gives time to save for the next release).

QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
The 645D had a price of 9.999 euro in shops in 2010. Now in 2018 a 645Z is 5.999 euro. So making a profit is not as easy as it was. Yet one 645Z sale with a lens does bring a lot of money. Compared to a K-70, maybe the profit is 100x that of a sale of the K-70. So putting energy in it can pay of. Does it still now with competition from Fujifilm and Hasselblad? I don't know, but my guess is that it doesn't anymore.
I think there is still plenty of money to be made in the medium format market. The price of sensors has come down considerably, even for really large ones like the one in the 645Z. Monochrome is right too in that the R and D is all paid for and so the cost of the camera has come down as a result. Obviously if Pentax releases a higher end version with better specs and a newer sensor, the cost will be higher as well.

The other thing to remember is that Pentax shares tech between lines of cameras so that odds are they would use/share components between the 645z and K-1 series of cameras. It probably helps with the cost of R and D as well.

08-29-2018, 03:00 AM   #158
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cerebum Quote
Oooh, Pentax thermos. I'm in
actually that is a good idea
08-29-2018, 04:14 AM - 1 Like   #159
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I'm not sure what folks having been smoking here on the Forum based on some of the ideas in this thread. 645Z update or K3 II sequel seem most likely from camera body standpoints. Lens mock-ups --DFA *85 and DA *11-15 seem possible as well. I wouldn't expect much yet, honestly. Probably spring of next year before we see the next wave of releases. Pentaxians shouldn't set their hopes too high. We got the DFA *50 this year, which by all accounts is a stellar lens. There will be more in the future, just not as fast as we'd like them (gives time to save for the next release).



I think there is still plenty of money to be made in the medium format market. The price of sensors has come down considerably, even for really large ones like the one in the 645Z. Monochrome is right too in that the R and D is all paid for and so the cost of the camera has come down as a result. Obviously if Pentax releases a higher end version with better specs and a newer sensor, the cost will be higher as well.

The other thing to remember is that Pentax shares tech between lines of cameras so that odds are they would use/share components between the 645z and K-1 series of cameras. It probably helps with the cost of R and D as well.
Right, this is the major point to keep in mind. The 645N in 1997 was incorporating tech developed for and used in the Mz-5(n)/3 cameras; the 645NII in 2001 shared tech with the MZ-S. The 645D was paralleled with the introduction of the new body design and tech of the K-5 in 2010 and the 645Z in 2014 with tech from K-3 (2013).

Maybe this is how the K-DSLRs with a letter instead of numbers can be understood: not developed as part of a complete lineup stepping up. And to keep a certain needed momentum for other cameras updates/facelifts are produced between this cycles (xxII...).

I would guess that a new cycle would again be started with an APS-C camera, new sensor, new tech (processor, AF etc.), maybe new body design and new positioning in the market. I guess there is broad agreement on that and because the platform should be able to support a larger/higher resolving sensors it might be quite a fast and responsive thing.
It might be accompanied by a new GR, getting new sensor and processor.
And it might be ready to be thrown into a new 645 which definitely would need this new processor.
And in the end, not necessarily shortly, end up in a new K-1 series camera.
There might be a slight possibility that on basis of this platform also a mirrorless model might be put out. I could imagine that a mirrorless version with design cues from K-P would be quite feasible, but I would not count on that.
On my personal wishlist would be the development of the GR into a mini-mirrorless system. Would be easy by simply adding a proper mounting cylinder, unless the unfortunately slightly wobbly GH-3 so called filter adapter. I am using it already with the GW-3 wide conversion lens and the GM-1 macro adapter. With a GT-1 tele adapter it would be a perfect travel camera system, maybe offering an electronic viewfinder with it.

Just my 2c, because, we are all in the same boat, those who know will not tell, those who tell don't know. We will have to wait and see.

Last edited by MMVIII; 08-29-2018 at 04:22 AM.
08-29-2018, 06:11 AM   #160
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New GR and new Theta will come up on Photokina.
08-29-2018, 06:25 AM   #161
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LOL

QuoteOriginally posted by Scintilla Quote
Hey, don't talk about the GR that way.


Hey now, I have three GR's so.... ;-p

GR's are the epitome of what a compact should be, now all they need is a viewfinder, hopefully a glass one with an lcd overlay
08-29-2018, 06:30 AM - 2 Likes   #162
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I'm not sure why Pentax would update K-70, KP or K-1 ..... those are basically new designs. 645, theta and K-3 make sense.
08-29-2018, 06:52 AM   #163
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And what about lenses? Maybe new DA* 16-50/2.8... With snappy and accurate AF. For me is the most needed lens for APS-C.
08-29-2018, 07:13 AM   #164
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I'm not sure why Pentax would update K-70, KP or K-1 ..... those are basically new designs. 645, theta and K-3 make sense.
I just realised, clicking like doesn't add to the post count I can't see Pentax doing a mirror less. If they were to make one based on K mount they would not be able to make it slim. OK, you could slim down the battery but would that look unbalanced. And if they left K mount they would have to develop or convert lenses for the new mount. So, my vote goes for a nice spotmatic replica
08-29-2018, 07:24 AM - 2 Likes   #165
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cerebum Quote
I just realised, clicking like doesn't add to the post count I can't see Pentax doing a mirror less. If they were to make one based on K mount they would not be able to make it slim. OK, you could slim down the battery but would that look unbalanced. And if they left K mount they would have to develop or convert lenses for the new mount. So, my vote goes for a nice spotmatic replica
I don't think so. If a MK-P is done with an EVF and without mirror it would not be so much different from the higher grade Fuji or Olympus cameras, sizewise. Especially if compactness is paradigm, with (a new setup?) of the limited lenses it could be quite an interesting start, without too much investment. And seeing the direction of Nikon, with the Z line compactness does not seem to be the factor they build upon for a mirrorless system. Every lens seems to have an adapter built in at the mount, therefore, instead of three cm one time at the camera mount you now carry 3 cm with every lens additionally.
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