[LennyBloke]

I certainly don't think Pentax should neglect the lower to mid price market. The DFA*50/1.4 was necessary, as is the upcoming 85, to show professional-level (arguably market-leading) capability in the full-frame arena, so I applaud the company for developing these. But many (most?) K-1 & K-1II owners won't have that kind of money to spend on a single focal length, and many want smaller, lighter products, even if that comes at the expense of some optical performance, IMHO.

I don't believe Pentax will neglect the lower and mid price markets but with their limited resources (compared to Sony, Nikon, Canon, etc.) they have to continually switch their focus between product ranges. For the size of the company I think they do a remarkable job - the Medium Format digital community sat up and took notice when Pentax entered, Full Frame DSLR's have delivered what Pentax is known for with some style (and the take up from the Forum communities seems pretty big to me) and the range of top quality lenses is gradually expanding. APS-C is well covered in terms of lenses - admittedly a new body is probably overdue - but I believe it will come fairly soon.

As for the the question of K1 owners and their finances, I'm not sure I agree. The D-FA*50/1.4 is approx 2/3 the price of a K1-II - a lot of money for a "standard" lens but it will still be "current" and "relevant" after 4 or 5 more Pentax FF DSLR's have been released, in financial terms a lens is a better investment than a body (bodies usually drop in value significantly quicker and by more than lenses) so if Pentaxians have invested that much in a K1 then I suspect a fair few will also take up the top end lenses that we'll hopefully see over the next few years. I'm not suggesting this applies to the majority of us, but Pentax presumably make a significantly higher profit on these lenses than the lower range ones so don't need to sell anything like the same numbers.

As you suggest, the Kudos from Professional level lenses is to be applauded and does create a buzz in the industry, amongst retailers and on photo "news" sites. I don't know how the success (or not) of the D-FA*50/1.4 can be measured without knowing the figures, but I think the qualities of the lens are now known and the upcoming 85mm (hopefully released next year) is highly likely to be even more successful (IMO).

[MMVIII]

Jointly the market shrinks 10 % in revenue in yen this year for all Japanese company's. So the question is, what will bring next year? If the market keeps shrinking despite all those new expensive offers.....Well someone is going to feel the pain.

As for Pentax. I think they invest to much in expensive gear, while their customer base isn't used to spend that much. Instead of the expensive dfa*50 they would have better made a series of fullframe f2.0 lenses that are affordable, but yet very good (28mm, 35mm, 50mm, 85mm).

As I said before, I think the peak in camera sales is over. Just because the offers are so mature, that everyone with the funds and willing to research can fulfil almost all of his photographic needs with the latest generation of cameras and equipment. The countless new offers don't bring anything significant to the core principles of photography - the quality of the resulting image.
10 new mirrorless or whatever cameras don't change this and show only that the market is not driven by innovation towards higher quality but by multiple attempts of somehow keeping the revenue for manifacturers and for this the user has to be seen as a consumer. This consumer should not be happy with his equipment, even if he might have bought it just two years ago. Despite the fact that there will be no or minimal gain in image quality the consumer should have the feeling that ha should not stop buying new equipment.
Other industries, like software industry, try to keep this constant revenue by not selling software products, but having monthly subscriptions. It seems to work out for them, even if consumers have the feeling someone is ripping them off.
I am also curious what will happen with all this contenders, putting their money on similar horses. Will they be able to get the ROI they expected?
Maybe Ricoh is really in a better position here, smaller investments, slow but constant flow by allowing people to save enough money for the next purchase to complete their system with equipment that really gives better IQ, like the DFA* 50...

Okay, the last sentence was with some irony... hehe

[BigMackCam]

As for the the question of K1 owners and their finances, I'm not sure I agree. The D-FA*50/1.4 is approx 2/3 the price of a K1-II - a lot of money for a "standard" lens but it will still be "current" and "relevant" after 4 or 5 more Pentax FF DSLR's have been released, in financial terms a lens is a better investment than a body (bodies usually drop in value significantly quicker and by more than lenses) so if Pentaxians have invested that much in a K1 then I suspect a fair few will also take up the top end lenses that we'll hopefully see over the next few years. I'm not suggesting this applies to the majority of us, but Pentax presumably make a significantly higher profit on these lenses than the lower range ones so don't need to sell anything like the same numbers.

You may well be correct. I guess I'm subconsciously applying my own buying habits to others, which perhaps isn't representative of them. In general, I've bought several mid-tier lenses for a combination of good quality and versatility, rather than one top-tier lens that gives the very best quality at one focal length. Having said that, there are exceptions where I've paid a lot more than usual for a specific lens - though when I think about it, those have all been zooms, and I suspect the versatility in focal length range has helped me feel more comfortable with the expenditure

[Rondec]

I basically agree and keep saying that a camera costing more than 300 Euros should have a viewfinder. Ok, GR is a small camera so it it not realistic to expect a 0,8x 3,7MPx EVF, but Sony RX100 shows that a viewfinder can be put in a camera even smaller than GR. So you are right that a camera vithout viewfinder is used mostly in point-and-shoot way. OTOH I still don´t think it ´s fair to say the GR is just a point-and-shoot. I was considering buying the GR for hiking and mountain climbing where even the smallest DSLR with the smallest lens is simply too big. The GR is really tiny, but still has a big APSC sensor and wide lens, so fine for landscapes. Shooting landscapes is no point-and-shoot thing, you have time to compose properly, maybe use a tripod (I use a small Gorillapod that fits in my small backpack easily). So for me the GR is not only a point-and-shoot, but also a nice travel and hiking camera when you need to keep things as light as possible.
So I like the idea of small APSC compact, I only critisize the useless "announcement of development" and sa the GR should have been introduced in final form and ready to sell.

Clearly the focus was on size. You are correct that the RX100 has an EVF, but it also has a lot smaller sensor. The GR III has an APS-C sensor with IBIS. To get that in and shrink the size of the camera means that you can't fit an EVF in.

Personally I'm not particularly interested in this sort of camera, but I think street photographers will love it with its movable screen it will allow waist level shooting or above the head shooting while still giving high quality images. Just because something isn't for you doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of people excited for it.

I don't believe Pentax will neglect the lower and mid price markets but with their limited resources (compared to Sony, Nikon, Canon, etc.) they have to continually switch their focus between product ranges. For the size of the company I think they do a remarkable job - the Medium Format digital community sat up and took notice when Pentax entered, Full Frame DSLR's have delivered what Pentax is known for with some style (and the take up from the Forum communities seems pretty big to me) and the range of top quality lenses is gradually expanding. APS-C is well covered in terms of lenses - admittedly a new body is probably overdue - but I believe it will come fairly soon.

As for the the question of K1 owners and their finances, I'm not sure I agree. The D-FA*50/1.4 is approx 2/3 the price of a K1-II - a lot of money for a "standard" lens but it will still be "current" and "relevant" after 4 or 5 more Pentax FF DSLR's have been released, in financial terms a lens is a better investment than a body (bodies usually drop in value significantly quicker and by more than lenses) so if Pentaxians have invested that much in a K1 then I suspect a fair few will also take up the top end lenses that we'll hopefully see over the next few years. I'm not suggesting this applies to the majority of us, but Pentax presumably make a significantly higher profit on these lenses than the lower range ones so don't need to sell anything like the same numbers.

As you suggest, the Kudos from Professional level lenses is to be applauded and does create a buzz in the industry, amongst retailers and on photo "news" sites. I don't know how the success (or not) of the D-FA*50/1.4 can be measured without knowing the figures, but I think the qualities of the lens are now known and the upcoming 85mm (hopefully released next year) is highly likely to be even more successful (IMO).

This thread has turned awfully dark. I do think there are a number of products coming next year and after a relatively slow year with regard to releases, that will be a good thing. The market overall has slowed, I suppose matured is a better word for it. Eventually even Sony, with their tech monster cameras, is going to have trouble tempting folks to buy a new camera for an extra 100 focus points or an EVF that refreshes 500 Hz or 12K video.

I'm pretty happy with my Pentax cameras and lenses. I still want to see them release products that fill out line ups, even if I won't buy them. I still have a feeling that next year is going to be a big year. A couple of DA * lenses, DFA 70-200 f4, DFA *85, a K70 and K3 II sequel and probably a 645z sequel. Get all of those items out the door and I'm sure there will be plenty of depressed people, but certainly there will be a bit more positivity here.

[H.Abendsen]

Clearly the focus was on size. You are correct that the RX100 has an EVF, but it also has a lot smaller sensor. The GR III has an APS-C sensor with IBIS. To get that in and shrink the size of the camera means that you can't fit an EVF in.

Personally I'm not particularly interested in this sort of camera, but I think street photographers will love it with its movable screen it will allow waist level shooting or above the head shooting while still giving high quality images. Just because something isn't for you doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of people excited for it.



This thread has turned awfully dark. I do think there are a number of products coming next year and after a relatively slow year with regard to releases, that will be a good thing. The market overall has slowed, I suppose matured is a better word for it. Eventually even Sony, with their tech monster cameras, is going to have trouble tempting folks to buy a new camera for an extra 100 focus points or an EVF that refreshes 500 Hz or 12K video.

I'm pretty happy with my Pentax cameras and lenses. I still want to see them release products that fill out line ups, even if I won't buy them. I still have a feeling that next year is going to be a big year. A couple of DA * lenses, DFA 70-200 f4, DFA *85, a K70 and K3 II sequel and probably a 645z sequel. Get all of those items out the door and I'm sure there will be plenty of depressed people, but certainly there will be a bit more positivity here.

I hope you are right... I would also love to see a K-3II sequel next year.. ..hopefully one with usability in its designers mind and not another wheel-conundrum like the K-1...

[Rondec]

I hope you are right... I would also love to see a K-3II sequel next year.. ..hopefully one with usability in its designers mind and not another wheel-conundrum like the K-1...

The three control wheels are probably here to stay. Just don't use the third one if you don't like it. I do like it on the K-1. It allows easy access to a number of things like pixel shift and astro tracer without menu diving or can be set to control iso so you have a wheel for aperture, shutter speed and iso.

At the same time, my guess for K3 II sequel would be a newer sensor, new imaging processor allowing for faster frame rates and probably better video. Upgraded auto focus -- both number of points and algorithms. Whatever bells and whistles they can add in.

[LennyBloke]

This thread has turned awfully dark.

I thought my attempted contribution was quite light and positive - must have had by Shades on at the time

I'll be first in line for the D-FA*85/1.4 and probably the 70-200/4.0 (the 2.8 version is too heavy for my travel liking)

[redpit]

The three control wheels are probably here to stay. Just don't use the third one if you don't like it. I do like it on the K-1. It allows easy access to a number of things like pixel shift and astro tracer without menu diving or can be set to control iso so you have a wheel for aperture, shutter speed and iso.

+1 I totally agree. I like my 3rd wheel on my K-1 and I find it very convinient!

[MMVIII]

+1 I totally agree. I like my 3rd wheel on my K-1 and I find it very convinient!

+1 I like it on the KP, oida

[totsmuyco]

Pentax just needs a steady following to maintain profitability. I'm not asking that its sales should spike up and then drop in the next years to a negative growth. Showing a new lens or 2 every year and probably a new body for FF and APSC with huge improvements every 2 years or so would be fine as long as they maintain a blue profit line. Probably a few new comers who can join Pentax to offset those leaving would be fine. Just a slow and steady growth in membership would be fine until the next DSLR or whatever camera makes its boom is what we need.

[Annatefkah]

All the other camera manufacturers are jumping into FF Mirrorless as the way to go but I doubt very much whether Pentax will go down this route, at least not yet. Just look at what Panasonic/Lumix are coming up with, with their S1R.

[reh321]

I hope you are right... I would also love to see a K-3II sequel next year.. ..hopefully one with usability in its designers mind and not another wheel-conundrum like the K-1...

What is wrong with having three dials???

[ThorSanchez]

I still have a feeling that next year is going to be a big year. A couple of DA * lenses, DFA 70-200 f4, DFA *85, a K70 and K3 II sequel and probably a 645z sequel. Get all of those items out the door and I'm sure there will be plenty of depressed people, but certainly there will be a bit more positivity here.

All we really need is a statement that says something like that is true. From the horse's mouth. "In 2019 we are going to release X, Y, Z. And some other stuff if we can manage it. And APS-C will continue to be supported with new equipment for the forseeable future. Pentax is not Dunder Mifflin Scranton, we are not closing up and moving you all to Stamford."

[RobA_Oz]

I hope you are right... I would also love to see a K-3II sequel next year.. ..hopefully one with usability in its designers mind and not another wheel-conundrum like the K-1...

What “wheel conundrum”? The function and settings dials on the K-1 are neither difficult nor puzzling. I’ve found them to be well worth the loss of some top LCD info. Given the mooted changes to the GRIII controls (moving some functions to the touch-screen) I imagine some of that will go into the K-3 successor, which would make some controls a “conundrum”, ie harder, because of the extra menu-diving necessitated by that.

[Andrea K]

+1 I like it on the KP, oida

+1 here on K-1