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09-16-2018, 12:50 AM   #1351
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QuoteOriginally posted by OoKU Quote
GRIII maybe announced at photokina,but sale next year.
That would be a serious mistake. The GRIII is not more then a niche compact camera. Not a world changer. So this should be presented as a new and ready product. Ready to go to customers within 4 weeks of announcement. If they pull a pre-announcement on the GRIII they are not a serious camera company anymore!

09-16-2018, 01:53 AM - 1 Like   #1352
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Is anyone other than Nikon using XQD??
yes... i guess dedicated professional video gear (non consumer gear)utilizes XQD much more...
at the moment in stills photography it is: Sony, Nikon, PhaseOne... who are using XQD slots in their cameras.

But the reason there are only 3 makers using XQD... DOES NOT mean that it would be a good idea to stay with SD cards...
Thing is... other pro-cameras formerly utilized or still have CFast Cards... which are like the XQD-cards a bit bigger and much much more robust...

I really dont think demanding or wanting XQD in upcoming professional cameras from pentax is a goal that is not set too high.


What would be a goal really set too high, would be to say:
You have to incorporate CFExpress. (thats a standard from a form factor compatible to XQD - and is also backwards compatible despite offering faster speeds)

It's not like we would be the first camera system to build XQD into our cameras...

If its done right, it should be no problem to have both formats in a dual slot, one slot for UHS-II(or UHS-III) SD-cards and one slot for XQD-cards(or CFExpress)
I am pretty sure at least some camera offered a dual slot with SD/MMC+CFast somewhen back in time...


REALLY! It is by no means kind of a good idea to always come too late to the show. Like its no good idea to follow bad examples...
Just look at the rant going on about those new mirrorless from canon for only having SD and only one slot...
It is absolutely clear why they have done this... otherwise every of their pros would want to instantly change to the EOS R and drop their 1DXII like... tomorrow

But the PENTAX system has no other PRO-Line that it would cannibalize(lenses and cams) by giving you more secure and faster image saving options...in upcoming K-mount cameras.
(2 UHS-I SD-slots is as high as it gets in PENTAXland at the moment. And thats not how we can lure more pros and enthusiast over to our system - not at burst speeds of 4fps)
Plz also remember that utilizing real fast cards would open the possibility to ENDLESS RAW shooting at a very desirable rate.(only given you designed the memory-bus system the right way of course)



*CFexpress will run a PCle interface with up to 8 lanes that can handle 1GB/s each. That’s 8GB/s transfer speed.
09-16-2018, 03:02 AM - 2 Likes   #1353
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What would be the purpose of going XQD?
The current Pentax cameras are far from maxing out the capabilities of SD. And I mean far - about an order of magnitude.

As for 2 different card slots, I don't like it; it's forcing you to have two different sets of cards. And the buffer clearing speed would still depend on the SD (assuming you'd want to write on both cards).
This "solution" is IMO rather a workaround to the issue of QXD not being widespread - so you'd have your primary slot, then a slot for a card you can actually buy everywhere (and likely own a few of).
09-16-2018, 03:05 AM - 2 Likes   #1354
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QuoteOriginally posted by H.Abendsen Quote
But the PENTAX system has no other PRO-Line that it would cannibalize(lenses and cams) by giving you more secure and faster image saving options...in upcoming K-mount cameras.
(2 UHS-I SD-slots is as high as it gets in PENTAXland at the moment. And thats not how we can lure more pros and enthusiast over to our system - not at burst speeds of 4fps)
Pentax is currently a brand for hobby and enthousiast photography. They don't have the customer base that is willing to pay for this investment. The investment is big.
- It means for the user to buy all new cards that are expensive.
- It means for Ricoh-Imaging to invest in the electronics inside the camera far beyond the needs of their current users.

Pentax uses as fastest write speed currently about 37 mb/s. That could go up with uhs-ii to 300 mb/s, so 9x faster. That needs a faster processor, bigger buffer, faster pipeline towards the cardslot. There is no need to make an investment that big or even more. When Pentax would go up to 100mb/s that would be more then enough.

09-16-2018, 03:13 AM - 1 Like   #1355
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QuoteOriginally posted by H.Abendsen Quote
yes... i guess dedicated professional video gear (non consumer gear)utilizes XQD much more...
at the moment in stills photography it is: Sony, Nikon, PhaseOne... who are using XQD slots in their cameras.

But the reason there are only 3 makers using XQD... DOES NOT mean that it would be a good idea to stay with SD cards...
Thing is... other pro-cameras formerly utilized or still have CFast Cards... which are like the XQD-cards a bit bigger and much much more robust...

I really dont think demanding or wanting XQD in upcoming professional cameras from pentax is a goal that is not set too high.


What would be a goal really set too high, would be to say:
You have to incorporate CFExpress. (thats a standard from a form factor compatible to XQD - and is also backwards compatible despite offering faster speeds)

It's not like we would be the first camera system to build XQD into our cameras...

If its done right, it should be no problem to have both formats in a dual slot, one slot for UHS-II(or UHS-III) SD-cards and one slot for XQD-cards(or CFExpress)
I am pretty sure at least some camera offered a dual slot with SD/MMC+CFast somewhen back in time...


REALLY! It is by no means kind of a good idea to always come too late to the show. Like its no good idea to follow bad examples...
Just look at the rant going on about those new mirrorless from canon for only having SD and only one slot...
It is absolutely clear why they have done this... otherwise every of their pros would want to instantly change to the EOS R and drop their 1DXII like... tomorrow

But the PENTAX system has no other PRO-Line that it would cannibalize(lenses and cams) by giving you more secure and faster image saving options...in upcoming K-mount cameras.
(2 UHS-I SD-slots is as high as it gets in PENTAXland at the moment. And thats not how we can lure more pros and enthusiast over to our system - not at burst speeds of 4fps)
Plz also remember that utilizing real fast cards would open the possibility to ENDLESS RAW shooting at a very desirable rate.(only given you designed the memory-bus system the right way of course)



*CFexpress will run a PCle interface with up to 8 lanes that can handle 1GB/s each. Thatís 8GB/s transfer speed.
How much difference would you actually see in practice between a camera that implemented UHS II and XQD cards? The problem with Pentax is that their cameras don't nearly utilize the write speed SD cards are currently capable of.

As far as frame rates on the K-1 and K-1 II, those are decided by the sensor that Pentax chose, which is older and by the PRIME engine that they use for processing images. My expectation is that these will both be upgraded down the road, but Pentax has a tendency to use tech that is a few steps off the bleeding edge to control costs.
09-16-2018, 03:31 AM   #1356
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
My feeling is saying that nothing is coming!
Perhaps, but I also believe in a new GR.
A new Theta maybe, or at CP +
A mock up on K3IV would be fun (K3III never came).
Maybe a surprice like DFA1,4X.
But they have to save a little to CP+ like DFA70-200/4 and or DA* 11-16.
I'm more pessimistic about 645, no DFA25 and 2 new zoom "2017 or later".

---------- Post added 09-16-2018 at 12:46 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I had a great time today, out and taking photos {this time, using Q-7 for a change} ..... then I came back here and immediately wanted to go out again to get away from the fussing .... but dusk will be here before I'm ready for it.

I know this isn't going to happen, so please don't everyone yell at once at me, but I'll vote for a QP (*)

(*) my name for the following
Q-7 body enlarged slightly to fit in EVF
sensor built for modern cell phone
processors from KP
Nice.
I vote for a extern EVF for GR that works on a new Q or a GR milc.

Last edited by Bophoto; 09-16-2018 at 03:47 AM.
09-16-2018, 04:49 AM   #1357
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Ricoh cannot go to Photokina and tell us oops we have nothing new to show. Don't expect great releases and you can only be positively surprised.
09-16-2018, 05:10 AM   #1358
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QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
Ricoh cannot go to Photokina and tell us oops we have nothing new to show. Don't expect great releases and you can only be positively surprised.
That is what happened two years ago.
The OP has promised that won't happen again this time.

09-16-2018, 05:15 AM   #1359
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QuoteOriginally posted by H.Abendsen Quote
yes... i guess dedicated professional video gear (non consumer gear)utilizes XQD much more...
at the moment in stills photography it is: Sony, Nikon, PhaseOne... who are using XQD slots in their cameras.

But the reason there are only 3 makers using XQD... DOES NOT mean that it would be a good idea to stay with SD cards...
Thing is... other pro-cameras formerly utilized or still have CFast Cards... which are like the XQD-cards a bit bigger and much much more robust...

I really dont think demanding or wanting XQD in upcoming professional cameras from pentax is a goal that is not set too high.


What would be a goal really set too high, would be to say:
You have to incorporate CFExpress. (thats a standard from a form factor compatible to XQD - and is also backwards compatible despite offering faster speeds)

It's not like we would be the first camera system to build XQD into our cameras...

If its done right, it should be no problem to have both formats in a dual slot, one slot for UHS-II(or UHS-III) SD-cards and one slot for XQD-cards(or CFExpress)
I am pretty sure at least some camera offered a dual slot with SD/MMC+CFast somewhen back in time...


REALLY! It is by no means kind of a good idea to always come too late to the show. Like its no good idea to follow bad examples...
Just look at the rant going on about those new mirrorless from canon for only having SD and only one slot...
It is absolutely clear why they have done this... otherwise every of their pros would want to instantly change to the EOS R and drop their 1DXII like... tomorrow

But the PENTAX system has no other PRO-Line that it would cannibalize(lenses and cams) by giving you more secure and faster image saving options...in upcoming K-mount cameras.
(2 UHS-I SD-slots is as high as it gets in PENTAXland at the moment. And thats not how we can lure more pros and enthusiast over to our system - not at burst speeds of 4fps)
Plz also remember that utilizing real fast cards would open the possibility to ENDLESS RAW shooting at a very desirable rate.(only given you designed the memory-bus system the right way of course)



*CFexpress will run a PCle interface with up to 8 lanes that can handle 1GB/s each. Thatís 8GB/s transfer speed.
Two important questions:

(1) Do XQD interfaces have "pins", like the old Compact Flash units did?

(2) What, other than 'prestige' would be gained by putting XQD units in Pentax cameras??
09-16-2018, 05:30 AM   #1360
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QuoteOriginally posted by H.Abendsen Quote
yes... i guess dedicated professional video gear (non consumer gear)utilizes XQD much more...
at the moment in stills photography it is: Sony, Nikon, PhaseOne... who are using XQD slots in their cameras.

*CFexpress will run a PCle interface with up to 8 lanes that can handle 1GB/s each. That’s 8GB/s transfer speed.
Who needs it - 8 GB/s in camera and for what?


XQD is some kind of trick. The video bitrate of new cameras is not high. XQD cards are pure commercial move now.
SDHC and SDXC card could be enough.
UHS-III bus interface provides 312 MB/s or 624 MB/s, UHS-II - 156 MB/s or 312 MB/s. XQD provides from 125 till 500 MB/s.

90 Mb/s min. speed SDXC cards are enough for 8K video files at 60/120 fps, man...

We could buy SD card in any country in any electronic store and even in smallest shop. Any notebook has SD card reader too.


The problem is another - Pentax cameras are far from high limits of SDHC and SDXC card...))

Last edited by ogl; 09-16-2018 at 10:13 AM.
09-16-2018, 05:43 AM - 1 Like   #1361
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think there are two things here. First of all, it is one company and so tech that is developed on the Ricoh side can flow to the Pentax side and vice versa. Second thing is that if there is a release of a mirrorless interchangeable lens camera with a different mount from the K mount, I would guess that it would be on the Ricoh side of things, not the Pentax.
Interesting point of view Rondec
09-16-2018, 07:46 AM   #1362
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Agreed Rondec

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think there are two things here. First of all, it is one company and so tech that is developed on the Ricoh side can flow to the Pentax side and vice versa. Second thing is that if there is a release of a mirrorless interchangeable lens camera with a different mount from the K mount, I would guess that it would be on the Ricoh side of things, not the Pentax.
Always thought the same.

Right now my concern with Ricoh is financial, more curious than anything. The copier sales/business hit, and such. They are a fiscally responsible company so I'm curious how much R/D and development funds are going to the Pentax branded products (as well as Ricoh branded products).

Anyways not much longer to wait.
09-16-2018, 08:55 AM   #1363
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Who needs it - 8 GB/s in camera and for what?


Q1) XQD is some kind of trick. The video bitrate of new cameras is not high. XQD cards are pure commercial move now.


Q2) The problem is another - Pentax cameras is far from high limits of SDHC and SDXC card...))
Q1) no it is not.

latest definition of the XQD standard is featuring support for PCI Express 3.0 with transfer rates up to 8 Gbit/s (1000 MB/s)
Furthermore: the cards are way more rugged and less failure(they can never develop the heat concentration of an SD-card.) prone from a technical point of view. no way around that. thats a fact.
... etc.

Q2) That is a problem and PENTAX would do good to care about that issue. otherwise our beloved system may go extinct pretty soon.
If Reps at Ricoh-Imaging have a rest of sanity left, they would do good to care about getting a faster camera on the market...

... Despite, the baseless fears about compatibility can be rendered obsolete when a Dual-Multi-Slot (1 SD, 1 CFE/XQD)is installed in a camera...
(you can always pop in an SD-Card... keeping in mind that you favor SD-Cards, you dont care about security anyway so you should be good with one SD-card mounted in your camera. other will love to install an XQD or CFExpresscard in the second slot and enjoy faster write speeds.)
... I wouldnt worry about the costs of XQD cards either... Since a real tough, "not so failure prone" and "hard to brake" SD-Card will cost you the same or more than an XQD card...(which is by design less likely to fail)

And no, no one NEEDS memory cards that fast. but we dont live in a communistic state(at least i hope so for you), so i feel pretty lucky people dont decide over other people what may be the cheapest and lowest standard everyone NEEDS or is ALLOWED to have. THX.
------though i think, the advantages of faster memory are obvious, and its only logic, that the other hardware should also be fast enough to utilize the full possible write speed --- I wanna jot down shortly ONE reason, why i think, that could make sense for us.

the upside of having real fast write speeds: if the cameras circuits(CPUs+Board) and bus speeds are also top notch... you would NOT need expensive buffer memory that big in your camery any more.
that could cut costs for a cameras production in a win-win way.


admitted: I really dont know the prices for really stable and 100%error-free superfast buffer memory, but i guess its not cheap either, otherwise our cameras would be able to pull more pics to the buffer before the K-1 slows down ... for instance.
09-16-2018, 09:13 AM   #1364
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QuoteOriginally posted by H.Abendsen Quote
Q1) no it is not.

latest definition of the XQD standard is featuring support transfer rates up to 8 Gbit/s (1000 MB/s)

that could cut costs for a cameras production in a win-win way.
So what? Pentax missed CF card and lost nothing.
09-16-2018, 09:20 AM - 1 Like   #1365
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QuoteOriginally posted by H.Abendsen Quote
Q1) no it is not.

latest definition of the XQD standard is featuring support for PCI Express 3.0 with transfer rates up to 8 Gbit/s (1000 MB/s)
Furthermore: the cards are way more rugged and less failure(they can never develop the heat concentration of an SD-card.) prone from a technical point of view. no way around that. thats a fact.
... etc.

Q2) That is a problem and PENTAX would do good to care about that issue. otherwise our beloved system may go extinct pretty soon.
If Reps at Ricoh-Imaging have a rest of sanity left, they would do good to care about getting a faster camera on the market...

... Despite, the baseless fears about compatibility can be rendered obsolete when a Dual-Multi-Slot (1 SD, 1 CFE/XQD)is installed in a camera...
(you can always pop in an SD-Card... keeping in mind that you favor SD-Cards, you dont care about security anyway so you should be good with one SD-card mounted in your camera. other will love to install an XQD or CFExpresscard in the second slot and enjoy faster write speeds.)
... I wouldnt worry about the costs of XQD cards either... Since a real tough, "not so failure prone" and "hard to brake" SD-Card will cost you the same or more than an XQD card...(which is by design less likely to fail)

And no, no one NEEDS memory cards that fast. but we dont live in a communistic state(at least i hope so for you), so i feel pretty lucky people dont decide over other people what may be the cheapest and lowest standard everyone NEEDS or is ALLOWED to have. THX.
------though i think, the advantages of faster memory are obvious, and its only logic, that the other hardware should also be fast enough to utilize the full possible write speed --- I wanna jot down shortly ONE reason, why i think, that could make sense for us.

the upside of having real fast write speeds: if the cameras circuits(CPUs+Board) and bus speeds are also top notch... you would NOT need expensive buffer memory that big in your camery any more.
that could cut costs for a cameras production in a win-win way.


admitted: I really dont know the prices for really stable and 100%error-free superfast buffer memory, but i guess its not cheap either, otherwise our cameras would be able to pull more pics to the buffer before the K-1 slows down ... for instance.
You still haven't answered my two questions:

(1) Do XQD interfaces have "pins", like the old Compact Flash units did?

(2) What, other than 'prestige' would be gained by putting XQD units in Pentax cameras??
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