Photokina, Ricoh has Confirmed

mee · 09-01-2018, 06:57 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by totsmuyco

I'm not sure if DLSR will be faced out. Older people get to have poorer eye sight and, definitely MILC is not for them. I see MILC moving ahead of DSLR. But, I think DSLR will be around as MILC is not for everyone. I'm going to be 56 this and I'm beginning to go that direction.

I don't think they'll be quickly phased out. And if Ricoh is still investing in slowwwwllyyyyy building a new D-FA lineup, they plan to stick around for awhile in this format.

However, can older people simply use a zoom amount or focus-peaking in the EVF to help focusing? That is one of the few pluses I see to using an EVF -- the focusing aids inside the viewfinder. Manual focus lenses should be much more enjoyable to use. And also, with touch screen LCDs, one can simply tap the placement of the focus point for AF lenses.

deus ursus · 09-01-2018, 07:25 AM

Originally posted by ffking

Well it's only a rumour as yet, but quite a high probability in the not too distant future

https://www.43rumors.com/ft5-panasonic-will-announce-its-first-full-frame-sy...-september-25/

And not only a full frame camera, but a camera with a full frame sensor AND a FF sensor ...

**Pål Jensen** · 09-01-2018, 07:58 AM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by Kunzite

Now if that isn't FUD, with a bit of "Pentax didn't gave me what I wanted, so let's punish them a bit"...

There is not great shift from DSLRs to mirrorless. The mirrorless itself started about a decade ago so it's nothing new - it's now mature technology. And according to CIPA, it's barely gaining.
Nope, no drama, no crowds desperate to change. Despite all the hype, all the propaganda.

Actually, mirrorless started in the 1800's

---------- Post added 09-01-18 at 05:00 PM ----------

Originally posted by bxf

I haven't been following the progress of mirrorless technology, but if the above quote is valid, it goes to show how much marketing is a factor in the success of a product.

When the Leica Digilux 2 was released almost 15 years ago, one of the main criticisms was the electronic viewfinder's lag. Various tests were performed that showed how an image seen in the VF at the moment the shutter release is pressed may be slightly imprecise when compared to the actual image obtained. If this problem has not been solved, then I would take much of the current increased popularity of ML as being due to hype.

The main reason is thar they are present in every electronic gadget store pushed by gadgets manufacturers. No wonder Panasonic is interested.
Sony wasnt able to sell dslr to photographers so they try to catch the customers that enters the store to buy a tv or a refridgerator....

Kunzite · 09-01-2018, 08:04 AM - **1 Like**

I'm talking about the type of mass market digital mirrorless started with the m4/3, in 2009. A promised revolution, supposed to replace all dinosaurs (just like 4/3 was supposed to be better and replace film-mount dinosaurs, remember that?) - a revolution that failed to happen.
What we got instead was a competitive type of camera. So boring!

Of course, the reflex viewing systems (single and twin lens) were developed after the first cameras. And if you know the history, you're more aware of all the compromises behind every such technology - you'd then be less susceptible to believe that EVFs are panaceas. IMO.

ogl · 09-01-2018, 08:09 AM

Originally posted by ffking

Well it's only a rumour as yet, but quite a high probability in the not too distant future

(FT5) Panasonic will announce its first Full Frame system camera on September 25! - 43 Rumors

It seems to me it could be Leica SL mount version from Panasonic.

ogl · 09-01-2018, 08:24 AM

It seems to me Ricoh overslept and missed this FF mirrorless train.....
Of course, DSLR will live at the market...But Ricoh has tiny piece of that pie...

As I remember, one of the top manager of Pentax dreamt about mirrorless 645 digital camera. He voiced such idea ~ 8 years ago.

Ricoh just try to develop and produce very-very slow new DFA lenses for their first FF DSLR and stuck with stone aged phase 33-points AF while other companies launch mirrorless system made from the zero with much attractive line of lenses and much better modern AF systems and e.t.c.

ZombieArmy · 09-01-2018, 08:31 AM

It will be the Q-S10. Upgraded sensor with weatherproof body and a release and re-release of new and old lenses as WR!

Too much of a dreamer?

ogl · 09-01-2018, 08:39 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

There is not great shift from DSLRs to mirrorless..

If we compare K-1 FF DSLR system with Sony, Nikon and Canon FF mirrorless systems, it would be rather serious leap and great shift.
If Panasonic joins this company, I'm afraid, the market share of Ricoh's DSLR become less than now...It's objective reality. The objective truth.

What will Ricoh do in such condition? It's interesting question.

ogl · 09-01-2018, 08:42 AM

Originally posted by ZombieArmy

It will be the Q-S10. Upgraded sensor with weatherproof body and a release and re-release of new and old lenses as WR!

Too much of a dreamer?

How do you estimate the market for such product with such tiny sensor?
Nikon 1 camera system had all weather camera and lenses already, but died.

RonHendriks1966 · 09-01-2018, 08:44 AM

Originally posted by ogl

What will Ricoh do in such condition? It's interesting question.

Shrink line-up to be profitable.

ogl · 09-01-2018, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

Shrink line-up to be profitable.

How far?

K-1II, 645Z, KP, K-70, GRII, Q-S1, WG-50 and WG-M2.

Cut WG and Q cameras forever, for example. What else? Keep only 1 MF, 1 FF and 2 APS-C cameras and GR. Maybe it will help...

RonHendriks1966 · 09-01-2018, 09:07 AM

Originally posted by ogl

How far?

K-1II, 645Z, KP, K-70, GRII, Q-S1, WG-50 and WG-M2.

Cut WG and Q cameras forever, for example. What else? Keep only 1 MF, 1 FF and 2 APS-C cameras and GR. Maybe it will help...

Well this is looking into the future, so not easy and not accurate.

K-mount with one fullframe and one aps-c model.

Theta and GR-line.

totsmuyco · 09-01-2018, 09:17 AM - **1 Like**

It would be nice to see a full frame GRIII making all of your wishes come true. Not that I want one but, maybe all of you will jump into the new model leaving a lot of unsold GRII on hand. Then maybe I can get a brand GRII at half the price.

**Pål Jensen** · 09-01-2018, 09:22 AM

Originally posted by ogl

If we compare K-1 FF DSLR system with Sony, Nikon and Canon FF mirrorless systems, it would be rather serious leap and great shift.
If Panasonic joins this company, I'm afraid, the market share of Ricoh's DSLR become less than now...It's objective reality. The objective truth.

What will Ricoh do in such condition? It's interesting question.

I believe it is the markedshare of those already in the mirrorless marked thar would shrink.

ogl · 09-01-2018, 09:26 AM

Originally posted by totsmuyco

It would be nice to see a full frame GRIII making all of your wishes come true. Not that I want one but, maybe all of you will jump into the new model leaving a lot of unsold GRII on hand. Then maybe I can get a brand GRII at half the price.

It's not good idea. GR is pocketable. Mirrorless FF is MUCH flexible system than FF fixed lens camera.

09-01-2018, 07:58 AM - 3 Likes	#453
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by Kunzite Now if that isn't FUD, with a bit of "Pentax didn't gave me what I wanted, so let's punish them a bit"... There is not great shift from DSLRs to mirrorless. The mirrorless itself started about a decade ago so it's nothing new - it's now mature technology. And according to CIPA, it's barely gaining. Nope, no drama, no crowds desperate to change. Despite all the hype, all the propaganda. Actually, mirrorless started in the 1800's ---------- Post added 09-01-18 at 05:00 PM ---------- Originally posted by bxf I haven't been following the progress of mirrorless technology, but if the above quote is valid, it goes to show how much marketing is a factor in the success of a product. When the Leica Digilux 2 was released almost 15 years ago, one of the main criticisms was the electronic viewfinder's lag. Various tests were performed that showed how an image seen in the VF at the moment the shutter release is pressed may be slightly imprecise when compared to the actual image obtained. If this problem has not been solved, then I would take much of the current increased popularity of ML as being due to hype. The main reason is thar they are present in every electronic gadget store pushed by gadgets manufacturers. No wonder Panasonic is interested. Sony wasnt able to sell dslr to photographers so they try to catch the customers that enters the store to buy a tv or a refridgerator.... Last edited by Pål Jensen; 09-01-2018 at 08:16 AM.

09-01-2018, 08:24 AM	#456
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	It seems to me Ricoh overslept and missed this FF mirrorless train..... Of course, DSLR will live at the market...But Ricoh has tiny piece of that pie... As I remember, one of the top manager of Pentax dreamt about mirrorless 645 digital camera. He voiced such idea ~ 8 years ago. Ricoh just try to develop and produce very-very slow new DFA lenses for their first FF DSLR and stuck with stone aged phase 33-points AF while other companies launch mirrorless system made from the zero with much attractive line of lenses and much better modern AF systems and e.t.c. Last edited by ogl; 09-01-2018 at 08:32 AM.

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09-01-2018, 06:57 AM - 1 Like	#451
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by totsmuyco I'm not sure if DLSR will be faced out. Older people get to have poorer eye sight and, definitely MILC is not for them. I see MILC moving ahead of DSLR. But, I think DSLR will be around as MILC is not for everyone. I'm going to be 56 this and I'm beginning to go that direction. I don't think they'll be quickly phased out. And if Ricoh is still investing in slowwwwllyyyyy building a new D-FA lineup, they plan to stick around for awhile in this format. However, can older people simply use a zoom amount or focus-peaking in the EVF to help focusing? That is one of the few pluses I see to using an EVF -- the focusing aids inside the viewfinder. Manual focus lenses should be much more enjoyable to use. And also, with touch screen LCDs, one can simply tap the placement of the focus point for AF lenses.

09-01-2018, 07:25 AM	#452
deus ursus Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Stårheim, Norway Posts: 658	Originally posted by ffking Well it's only a rumour as yet, but quite a high probability in the not too distant future https://www.43rumors.com/ft5-panasonic-will-announce-its-first-full-frame-sy...-september-25/ And not only a full frame camera, but a camera with a full frame sensor AND a FF sensor ...

09-01-2018, 08:04 AM - 1 Like	#454
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	I'm talking about the type of mass market digital mirrorless started with the m4/3, in 2009. A promised revolution, supposed to replace all dinosaurs (just like 4/3 was supposed to be better and replace film-mount dinosaurs, remember that?) - a revolution that failed to happen. What we got instead was a competitive type of camera. So boring! Of course, the reflex viewing systems (single and twin lens) were developed after the first cameras. And if you know the history, you're more aware of all the compromises behind every such technology - you'd then be less susceptible to believe that EVFs are panaceas. IMO.

09-01-2018, 08:09 AM	#455
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by ffking Well it's only a rumour as yet, but quite a high probability in the not too distant future (FT5) Panasonic will announce its first Full Frame system camera on September 25! - 43 Rumors It seems to me it could be Leica SL mount version from Panasonic.

09-01-2018, 08:31 AM	#457
ZombieArmy Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Florida Posts: 3,210	It will be the Q-S10. Upgraded sensor with weatherproof body and a release and re-release of new and old lenses as WR! Too much of a dreamer?

09-01-2018, 08:39 AM	#458
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by Kunzite There is not great shift from DSLRs to mirrorless.. If we compare K-1 FF DSLR system with Sony, Nikon and Canon FF mirrorless systems, it would be rather serious leap and great shift. If Panasonic joins this company, I'm afraid, the market share of Ricoh's DSLR become less than now...It's objective reality. The objective truth. What will Ricoh do in such condition? It's interesting question.

09-01-2018, 08:42 AM	#459
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by ZombieArmy It will be the Q-S10. Upgraded sensor with weatherproof body and a release and re-release of new and old lenses as WR! Too much of a dreamer? How do you estimate the market for such product with such tiny sensor? Nikon 1 camera system had all weather camera and lenses already, but died.

09-01-2018, 08:44 AM	#460
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by ogl What will Ricoh do in such condition? It's interesting question. Shrink line-up to be profitable.

09-01-2018, 08:52 AM	#461
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 Shrink line-up to be profitable. How far? K-1II, 645Z, KP, K-70, GRII, Q-S1, WG-50 and WG-M2. Cut WG and Q cameras forever, for example. What else? Keep only 1 MF, 1 FF and 2 APS-C cameras and GR. Maybe it will help...

09-01-2018, 09:07 AM	#462
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by ogl How far? K-1II, 645Z, KP, K-70, GRII, Q-S1, WG-50 and WG-M2. Cut WG and Q cameras forever, for example. What else? Keep only 1 MF, 1 FF and 2 APS-C cameras and GR. Maybe it will help... Well this is looking into the future, so not easy and not accurate. K-mount with one fullframe and one aps-c model. Theta and GR-line.

09-01-2018, 09:17 AM - 1 Like	#463
totsmuyco Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Iloilo City Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,276	It would be nice to see a full frame GRIII making all of your wishes come true. Not that I want one but, maybe all of you will jump into the new model leaving a lot of unsold GRII on hand. Then maybe I can get a brand GRII at half the price.

09-01-2018, 09:22 AM	#464
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by ogl If we compare K-1 FF DSLR system with Sony, Nikon and Canon FF mirrorless systems, it would be rather serious leap and great shift. If Panasonic joins this company, I'm afraid, the market share of Ricoh's DSLR become less than now...It's objective reality. The objective truth. What will Ricoh do in such condition? It's interesting question. I believe it is the markedshare of those already in the mirrorless marked thar would shrink.

09-01-2018, 09:26 AM	#465
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by totsmuyco It would be nice to see a full frame GRIII making all of your wishes come true. Not that I want one but, maybe all of you will jump into the new model leaving a lot of unsold GRII on hand. Then maybe I can get a brand GRII at half the price. It's not good idea. GR is pocketable. Mirrorless FF is MUCH flexible system than FF fixed lens camera.