Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Closed Thread
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
09-01-2018, 03:59 PM   #511
Veteran Member
Mark Ransom's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 498
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I wrote that, given their 1990’s production process and elderly machines they’re production scheduling is masterful. Reading that implies they are somewhat production constrained. That’s pure opinion based on reading such comments as the explanation for the DFA*50 delay, RIcoh announcing immediately on acquisition they had bought new evaporators (so they could apply HD nanocoatings) and PM discussions with members who are close to Pentax but who post infrequently.

Our expections are misaligned with Pentax scale and capacity and with their vision and strategy. We inherently apply CaNiSony expectations and assumptions, when Pentax is tiny by comparison. They don’t want to compete with the bid boys. They’re doing something different.

So long as RIcoh allows it they can continue to run the business as they are for the foreseeable future. They’re doing the right things: designing awesome lenses; updating software and opening the API & SDK’s; building Theta. They’re vexingly tight lipped, and nature abhors a (information) vacuum, so we can be victimized by our own false projections and the intentionally disruptive statements of trolls and agents provacateurs. If we’re patient, and use what we have, Pentax will be fine. But if one by one we get frustrated and abandon them because they don’t meet our acquisitive expectations - TODAY - they’ll gradually wither and die.

Some people actually want to see that happen.
Sorry, I completely didn't get your point, but I do now. I still think their design and production are probably well balanced, so if their production capability is a limiting factor then so is their design.


QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Life is too short to be wasting time constantly worrying. Don't worry, instead of worrying take action: sell you Pentax gear (K-7, *ist DS, K-01?) and go with another brand. And you rather follow your own gut feeling (or logic if your are logical), as opposed to find comfort by anonymous forum members because in case things don't happen as they predict your only recourse would be to bite your fingers... People here do not have insider information, and even if some people do have insider information they are no allowed to disclose. So, the information you get from PF is insignificant for you to make any reliable decision.
It's just a figure of speech. Believe me, I don't stay awake at night worrying about camera companies. There are people who get paid to do that.

09-01-2018, 04:41 PM - 1 Like   #512
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
RobA_Oz's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,182
QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Humans are Humans. This is the aspect we've lost as a civilized society... we're so polarized to think people who hold a particular view or prefer a particular brand are some how inferior as a being or have less value. Which can result in a lot of really foul and viscous interaction.

People using Pentax gear are no different underneath than people who wield, for instance, Canon gear. It is too bad we cannot celebrate our common interests more as photographers and photography enthusiasts than lumping each other into factions (such as 'Pentaxian' or 'Nikonian') and whittling each other down based on aspects that don't help each other and, frankly, don't really matter.
No argument there, from me. Some of my best friends are Nikon users.

Hell, some of them even use Canon gear. Leicas, too. I don’t think I know anyone who uses Panasonic gear, though. Maybe I should get out more.
09-01-2018, 04:58 PM - 1 Like   #513
mee
Veteran Member




Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 7,403
QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
No argument there, from me. Some of my best friends are Nikon users.

Hell, some of them even use Canon gear. Leicas, too. I don’t think I know anyone who uses Panasonic gear, though. Maybe I should get out more.
When I read 'Panasonic' I think 'VCR'

I don't know anyone using Panasonic gear either, but I wouldn't mind giving it a go and talking photography with them if they did. No brand agenda.

Once I let my Canon-shooting buddy try out a K-30 I owned at the time. He thought it was really nice (he would have politely told me otherwise). Actually he was the one that mentioned Pentax when I was looking for my first DSLR 8 or 9 years ago (and I didn't know what a Pentax was). A warm DPR camera review (among others) of the K-x sold me on it. He was going to get a Pentax kit too but found a cheap Canon kit at Sams or Costco (warehouse style retailer) and couldn't pass up on the price. doh.


But yeah, in the end, we all value the experience of photography and that should be respected in each of us. Instead of the nitpickery 13 stop this versus 14 stop that combative nonsense we as a whole tend to bicker over. I'm over a lot of the brand politics as it's a dead end street.
09-01-2018, 05:15 PM - 1 Like   #514
sbh
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
sbh's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Black Forest, Germany
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 848
QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
If we compare K-1 FF DSLR system with Sony, Nikon and Canon FF mirrorless systems, it would be rather serious leap and great shift.
If Panasonic joins this company, I'm afraid, the market share of Ricoh's DSLR become less than now...It's objective reality. The objective truth.

What will Ricoh do in such condition? It's interesting question.
Why should Ricohs DSLR market share shrink if Panasonic joins the mirrorless market? I think Sony would take the biggest hit, and then Fuji and maybe olympus and Panasonic itself. But Pentax? Hm...

09-01-2018, 10:15 PM   #515
ogl
Banned




Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sankt Peterburg
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 8,382
QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
Try to understand, with statements like this "They will cut production of APS-C cameras. Too many competitors and too many MILCs..

It's just opinion.

Because, MILC's sales is growing again, the shipment of DSLR is ~ 1 millions cameras (and more) down per every year.
All manufacturers cut production of DLSR. It's simple logic.
09-01-2018, 10:17 PM   #516
Pentaxian
Mistral75's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 7,512
QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
(...)

Sales in the last quarter where 40 million USD. That is for K-mount full frame and aps-c body's and lenses, action camera's, Theta, GRII and 645Z with lenses. The expectation is that this will be for the whole year the average sales number (10 % less then in the last full year). So 500.000 camera's units sale would make it 320 USD a unit for Ricoh-Imaging and leaving no sales for lenses, Theta or GR. Not possible.
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Cite your source for that with live links to independent financial reports. Otherwise I’m calling BS.
Consolidated Results for Three Months Ended June 30, 2018 - page 9 of the pdf document.

Sales of Other \ Smart Vision = ¥4.4bn = $40.35m.
09-01-2018, 10:18 PM   #517
ogl
Banned




Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sankt Peterburg
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 8,382
QuoteOriginally posted by sbh Quote
Why should Ricohs DSLR market share shrink if Panasonic joins the mirrorless market? I think Sony would take the biggest hit, and then Fuji and maybe olympus and Panasonic itself. But Pentax? Hm...
Because, the total market of DSLR shrinks

09-01-2018, 10:25 PM   #518
Pentaxian
MMVIII's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: EU
Posts: 1,121
QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Because, the total market of DSLR shrinks
Following logic their share would rise.

On a serious note, they really might attract people dedicated to dslrs if they have the feeling that Ricoh Pentax might support their preferred (for which reason whatsoever) camera type longer and even bring out new innovative developments than their actual brand, that might just desperately jump the meetoomirrorles bandwagon...
09-01-2018, 10:27 PM   #519
ogl
Banned




Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sankt Peterburg
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 8,382
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
You're doing it wrong - trends should not be computed with just 2 data points.

There are interesting things happening which you'd be missing, like the DSLR decline slowing down to a crawl, the MILC advance also slowing down, and the total camera market (or rather, production/shipments) actually growing a little in 2017.
.

Little? The growing of MILCs is 921 000 cameras in 2017. The falling of DSLR is 853 000 cameras in 2017.
It will be interesting to see data for 2018 year.

Slowing down?
The total drop of DSLR from 2012 till 2017 year is 8 600 000 cameras. 8.6 millions cameras!!!! 54%!!!
09-01-2018, 10:46 PM - 1 Like   #520
Banned




Join Date: Jan 2009
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 9,675
QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
It will be interesting to see data for 2018 year.
I think 2019 will be the crunch year. How succesfull are all those new fullframe mirrorless cameras going to be? I think we will see a big shift, not only in units but also in average shipping price. All those new fullframe mirrorless camera's are expensive and will replace sales that where normaly for D750, 6Dii and others. I expect dslr sales to drop at least 10 to 20 % next year.
09-01-2018, 11:44 PM   #521
Veteran Member
zoolander's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Gold Coast
Photos: Albums
Posts: 351
I am hoping for a Pentax K3ii replacement that is mirrorless. I also hoping that Pentax FF is also moving to mirrorless.

They need to do this ASAP.

Sony, Nikon and now Canon is going into FF mirrorless.

Hopefully we'll see a new Pentax mirrorless system. If we don't, then I'll be disappointed and all the press will also mock Pentax for not being up to speed.

I was saying it more than a year ago that Pentax apsc needs to switch to mirrorless. I am hoping that the delay indicates certain changes. The delay's in lenses may also have something to do with it. Nikon D850 has been sold out for a long time, and that was an indication that something was up ......then comes the Nikon Z. Canon has now got leaked images of it R mirrorless and lenses.

C'mom Pentax lets keep up. In fact it would have been better if Pentax had have taken the leap a long time ago. Now that the Q is deleted, I hope the unit developing it will be working on an apsc mirrorless. Some of those leaf shutter lenses would also set Pentax apart from the competition.
09-02-2018, 12:20 AM - 3 Likes   #522
Pentaxian




Join Date: Feb 2015
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 12,177
QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I think 2019 will be the crunch year. How succesfull are all those new fullframe mirrorless cameras going to be? I think we will see a big shift, not only in units but also in average shipping price. All those new fullframe mirrorless camera's are expensive and will replace sales that where normaly for D750, 6Dii and others. I expect dslr sales to drop at least 10 to 20 % next year.
Mirrorless is the new trick to try to recover from slow sales, but it won't fully work. Sony have a hard time to sell, they spend a lot in advertising to end up with very slow growing or flat sales of mirrorless. Lot of people won't replace their cameras every two years especially when it cost between 5K and 10K to switch systems with the new system not bringing substantial improvement over the system you already own. What the market would need is that some players would exit the camera market or merge and downsize. If Pentax would exit, that wouldn't heal the market because Pentax is too small. If Nikon would go bankrupt it would give some extra bit og oxygen to Canon and Sony.
09-02-2018, 01:34 AM   #523
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 15,132
QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Little? The growing of MILCs is 921 000 cameras in 2017. The falling of DSLR is 853 000 cameras in 2017.
It will be interesting to see data for 2018 year.

Slowing down?
The total drop of DSLR from 2012 till 2017 year is 8 600 000 cameras. 8.6 millions cameras!!!! 54%!!!
Yet that amount means a 10% YoY decrease, compared to a 24% in 2014.

You can already see the data for 2018, until June - there is a decline of about 5%. Yep, slowing down.
The mirrorless are either growing slightly (4%) or falling slightly (2%), depending if you look at the production or shipments.
09-02-2018, 01:59 AM   #524
Pentaxian




Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,112
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
You can already see the data for 2018, until June - there is a decline of about 5%. Yep, slowing down.
The mirrorless are either growing slightly (4%) or falling slightly (2%), depending if you look at the production or shipments.
Since this is a photo forum and not a 1st year commerce student forum, it seems unavoidable to only look at what actually describes one photographer customer / forum member / person and that is units sold.

Even the very latest data is clearly showing that dinosaur ILC lacking optical viewfinder have not made any significant progress in the last 6 years.
And the ILC with optical viewfinder do seem relatively stable and do quite well.


09-02-2018, 02:43 AM   #525
Senior Member




Join Date: Aug 2018
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 240
What's that FF? full feature for the 35? I bet it's heavy, I so like heavy. Keeps the camera still during shots.
Closed Thread

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
advantages, april, camera, coffee, f4, ff, frame, guitar, lens, lot, mirror, mirrorless, mirrorless k1, mockup, mugs, pentax news, pentax rumors, photokina, pm, post, posts, ricoh, sales, sensor, sony, theta, threads, version
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Yesterday Metz confirmed they have no resources to fix the K-1 Bug Gerard_Dirks Flashes, Lighting, and Studio 25 09-15-2020 07:22 AM
some kind of SHOW or attractive EVENTS at this years RICOH booth at PHOTOKINA ? hitrate Photographic Industry and Professionals 10 05-28-2018 04:48 PM
DPReview: Photokina 2016 interview: Ricoh aims for visual revolution EssJayEff Pentax News and Rumors 50 10-09-2016 01:03 PM
Has It Been Confirmed That The K-3 Will Accept UHS-I...? tabl10s Pentax K-3 & K-3 II 11 10-20-2013 12:21 PM
Important questions that no one who's visiting Photokina has addressed yet Christopher M.W.T Pentax News and Rumors 67 09-28-2010 07:56 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:51 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top