[Rondec]

Hi Ron,
mirrorless cameras can shoot faster than the mirror cameras. Not that I have a ML camera, but for sports it is very attractive. 12 frames or more a second is very nice. The focus is amazing to keep up at that pace. Sony is doing great this year in that area over all other manufacturers.

This is true. However, not all mirrorless cameras have this focus rate or the ability to track at this sort of speed. Even the Z6 and Z7, while they may be able to shoot very fast frame rates, don't seem to be up to the tracking with a lot of Nikon's lenses.

Sony has sunk lots and lots of money into R and D in order to match the performance of SLRs like the D5. People have this weird idea that Ricoh could release a MILC and immediately their tracking auto focus would be perfect and frame rates would double, but you just have to look back a generation or two to realize that it is far more likely that Pentax would have similar performance to a camera like the A7r -- not terrible, but certainly nothing along the lines of what current SLRs offer.

If Pentax did offer an MILC it would take them years to get the performance levels of cameras like the A7 III and the lens line up could take longer yet to fill out. Remember that Pentax (unlike Canon) has only relatively recently moved away from screw driven lenses with aperture levers and any adapter to use those sorts of lenses on an MILC would have to be more complex.

I'm not saying that Pentax shouldn't look into building a MILC. They probably are looking at it currently. I just think that it doesn't make sense for them to match any of the segments of market that are already occupied by Sony and Nikon and Canon mirrorless options and I'm not sure what niche is left. From a personal standpoint, I'm in a similar boat to Kunzite and I get eye strain pretty fast using any EVF I have tried. There are quite a few other people like myself who for whatever reason don't deal well with screens that close to our eyes and as long as we exist, I don't see OVFs going away completely -- regardless of what EVF proponents share on the Forum.

[sbh]

I agree with you on the "dramatic" bit. I heard it all myself years ago, when I was with Olympus 4/3, and people were stating that "dslr cameras would vanish within 2 years", and such....
I had no intention to go mirrorless myself, greatly preferring OVF cameras. Still, I guess I learned two things: when sales drop below a minimum, like it did with 4/3, a company may be forced to make a radical change. And the other is: it's all about momentum. Mirrorless technology can linger for years and years and then push the older dslr technologies to the sidelines in a very short time. It's really all about sales and inevitable change. If the large companies decide to put their main R&D and promotion into mirrorless, then the benefits will soon pile up. Olympus changed practically overnight, discontinuing all 4/3 development radically. Canon and Nikon won't be in the same hurry, but still, if they start to seriously promote and develop mirrorless cameras and lenses....
To me it seems that the momentum for mirrorless is now. The question is, and only time will tell, will dslr cameras hold their own when the majority of R&D and promotion starts to go mirrorless' way at the big companies...

But this is all mainly relevant for new product develooments of course. There are still people shooting Olympus 4/3 today...
Myself, I sometimes get wearied by defensive and protective reactions to the changes going on in the camera world right now. As if there is any need for protection of dslr cameras. Just as there were people crying out on the Olympus forum 6 years ago that dslr cameras would vanish within 2 years, there were also those that boggedly denied that the Olympus E5 was more and more likely to be Olympus' last dslr camera. More or less the same goes on here on this forum with the questions raised by the continuing lack of any tangible proof on a K3 successor, that should readily have been here...

In the end, when mirrorless dóes push dslr cameras into the sidelines in the coming years, you can stíll continue to shoot Pentax cameras and lenses for many years to come, even after Ricoh pulls the plug on Pentax dslr, if that should ever happen.

Chris

That makes sense. I did't follow Olympus, did they move from 4/3 to APSC?

Source: PHOTOGRAPHIC CENTRAL: Photokina 2018- Will Be Historic, Absolutely Epic.

If so, I'm excited to see what it is. If not, I'll enjoy a chat with the Pentax people. I'm fine with that too.

[iudex]

I agree with you on the "dramatic" bit. I heard it all myself years ago, when I was with Olympus 4/3, and people were stating that "dslr cameras would vanish within 2 years", and such....
I had no intention to go mirrorless myself, greatly preferring OVF cameras. Still, I guess I learned two things: when sales drop below a minimum, like it did with 4/3, a company may be forced to make a radical change. And the other is: it's all about momentum. Mirrorless technology can linger for years and years and then push the older dslr technologies to the sidelines in a very short time. It's really all about sales and inevitable change. If the large companies decide to put their main R&D and promotion into mirrorless, then the benefits will soon pile up. Olympus changed practically overnight, discontinuing all 4/3 development radically. Canon and Nikon won't be in the same hurry, but still, if they start to seriously promote and develop mirrorless cameras and lenses....
To me it seems that the momentum for mirrorless is now. The question is, and only time will tell, will dslr cameras hold their own when the majority of R&D and promotion starts to go mirrorless' way at the big companies...

But this is all mainly relevant for new product develooments of course. There are still people shooting Olympus 4/3 today...
Myself, I sometimes get wearied by defensive and protective reactions to the changes going on in the camera world right now. As if there is any need for protection of dslr cameras. Just as there were people crying out on the Olympus forum 6 years ago that dslr cameras would vanish within 2 years, there were also those that boggedly denied that the Olympus E5 was more and more likely to be Olympus' last dslr camera. More or less the same goes on here on this forum with the questions raised by the continuing lack of any tangible proof on a K3 successor, that should readily have been here...

In the end, when mirrorless dóes push dslr cameras into the sidelines in the coming years, you can stíll continue to shoot Pentax cameras and lenses for many years to come, even after Ricoh pulls the plug on Pentax dslr, if that should ever happen.

Chris

I think the "decisive moment" in the camera market has come now. Mirrorless has been here for 10 years and they have been eating larger and larger market share. However it was still only "small players" (or not-first-league players) who decided to abandon DSLR and go fully mirrorless. I have always said in ML vs DSLR discussions that unless the big two (Canon and Nikon) release a serious mirorless cameras the DSLRs will be dominating. But now the moment came. Nikon introduced the first serious ML camera and Canon will do so in 2 days. It is obvious the DSLR will not die or vanish soon, there will be new Nikon and Canon DSLRs for some time. However turning the focus (and resources) to mirorleess will mean less R&D of DSLRs and lenses (this means no serious innovation); OTOH mirrorless will get a lot of attention and we can expect rapid improvement in ML technology.

And hwhere is Pentax/Ricoh place in this moment? I am very sad to say this but I believe Pentax cameras will slowly go to oblivion. Such a small company has not enough resources to make a new competitive mirrorless camera (that was when the K-01 came out and when there was no big competition) and the base of DSLR customers will - in best case - remain the same, but more probably will be getting smaller and smaller, until one day the managers say it is not economically sane to produce DSLRs any more and quit the whole camera business. I hope I am wrong and Pentax will release some interesting mirrorless, but with DSLRs it is destined to get even less market share.

And I think their Photokina release will be symptomatical for their future: even a new DSLR (which is the most many here are hoping for) will get attention only from Pentax fans, the rest of the world will talk solely about the new Canon FF mirrorless (Panasonic FF mirorless). Not mentioning the case when the announcement will be anything smaller (like new lens/-es).

[MMVIII]

I think the "decisive moment" in the camera market has come now. Mirrorless has been here for 10 years and they have been eating larger and larger market share. However it was still only "small players" (or not-first-league players) who decided to abandon DSLR and go fully mirrorless. I have always said in ML vs DSLR discussions that unless the big two (Canon and Nikon) release a serious mirorless cameras the DSLRs will be dominating. But now the moment came. Nikon introduced the first serious ML camera and Canon will do so in 2 days. It is obvious the DSLR will not die or vanish soon, there will be new Nikon and Canon DSLRs for some time. However turning the focus (and resources) to mirorleess will mean less R&D of DSLRs and lenses (this means no serious innovation); OTOH mirrorless will get a lot of attention and we can expect rapid improvement in ML technology.

And hwhere is Pentax/Ricoh place in this moment? I am very sad to say this but I believe Pentax cameras will slowly go to oblivion. Such a small company has not enough resources to make a new competitive mirrorless camera (that was when the K-01 came out and when there was no big competition) and the base of DSLR customers will - in best case - remain the same, but more probably will be getting smaller and smaller, until one day the managers say it is not economically sane to produce DSLRs any more and quit the whole camera business. I hope I am wrong and Pentax will release some interesting mirrorless, but with DSLRs it is destined to get even less market share.

And I think their Photokina release will be symptomatical for their future: even a new DSLR (which is the most many here are hoping for) will get attention only from Pentax fans, the rest of the world will talk solely about the new Canon FF mirrorless (Panasonic FF mirorless). Not mentioning the case when the announcement will be anything smaller (like new lens/-es).

*dramaticmusicfadeout*

[ogl]

. Your position is kinda odd: you criticize Pentax but you keep your Pentax gear while not buying anything from main brands, what's your goal/purpose then?

I have no purposes, just to take part in discussion at leisure to get any interesting information and express my opinion. It's all.

As for me, it's very odd to be a fan.

My position is the normal and sane position of wide-minded people.
I live under commandment "You shall not make for yourself a graven image".
If the man serve any THING, it's rather strange for me.

If I use Panasonic microwave oven or Gigabyte mother board it doesn't mean that I am obliged to Panasonic or Gigabyte to praise their products. I paid money to this companies, by the way. I have no debts to them. Nor moral, neither financial.

The same situation with photo tools.
I'm not the slave of things. I simply use the thing and nothing else. And I'm free to discuss, criticize, complain and express my opinion.
And...
I dare to say and write absolutely everything that I find necessary and correct, in the very form that I personally find appropriate, not asking anyone for permission, the highest approval, or moral blessing. My opinion doesn't break forum's rules.

It rather sad for me that a lot of people have totalitarian thinking, discussing about ignoring of opponent, show illiberality and intolerance to the interlocutor.

[MMVIII]

Looking forward to photokina. Curious if things will be presented and if so what kind of stuff. The lack of substantial preinformation might indicate it might be announcements and maybe prototypes.

To the mirrorless discussion:
Mirrorless will take over when they are cheaper to produce than DSLRs. This will not be the first generation of the major manufacturers, they will still have to charge for development costs. Later iterations will be cheap. All the talk about the advantages for photographers is mainly advertisment. If it's the final Image Quality that counts mirrorlrss can not add anything to the market. For professional work I would not care about some of the differences, but I would still rather take a DSLR into the air for aerial photography where I know that the battery lasts a full flight. Spare batteries may be cheap, but I want to reduce manipulation in the Cessna to a minimum fiddling with things that can get lost.
For my private fun I enjoy the KP, and would not know what a hobbyist could wish for more for travel, documentation, occasional landscape, family and sport. It all can be more responsive etc. but I see nothing which could be achieved only by removing the OVF.

---------- Post added 09-03-2018 at 01:19 PM ----------

I have no purposes, just to take part in discussion at leisure to get any interesting information and express my opinion. It's all.

As for me, it's very odd to be a fan.

My position is the normal and sane position of wide-minded people.
I live under commandment "You shall not make for yourself a graven image".
If the man serve any THING, it's rather strange for me.

If I use Panasonic microwave oven or Gigabyte mother board it doesn't mean that I am obliged to Panasonic or Gigabyte to praise their products. I paid money to this companies, by the way. I have no debts to them. Nor moral, neither financial.

The same situation with photo tools.
I'm not the slave of things. I simply use the thing and nothing else. And I'm free to discuss, criticize, complain and express my opinion.
And...
I dare to say and write absolutely everything that I find necessary and correct, in the very form that I personally find appropriate, not asking anyone for permission, the highest approval, or moral blessing. My opinion doesn't break forum's rules.

It rather sad for me that a lot of people have totalitarian thinking, discussing about ignoring of opponent, show illiberality and intolerance to the interlocutor.

Haha, right. Even if your positioning as a sane and normal voice might indicate some passive agressiveness, that might be the reason for some reactions you might face here. Just as a friendly hint

I like to exchange opinion on things, obviously this is the forum specified also to this. There are fora for microwaves and fora for panasonic kitchenware and I would like to see the reactions there if someone comes there and says, well, microwaveovens are so last year, this is the end of this devices, the new trend is the plasmakiln, and if this company does not produce it immediately they are doomed! Roasted and doomed...

[ogl]

Haha, right. Even if your positioning as a sane and normal voice might indicate some passive agressiveness, .

Proof of my aggressiveness.

Your words are good confirmation of my position. And you try to pass the desirable for reality. The method of thinking over is effective, but it's method to slander your opponent.

[biz-engineer]

The new Pentax camera model will have a reduced size yellow chicken pop-up in place of the former flash / hotshoe to make people smile exactly when you take the shot. Doing so, Pentax photographer will not need higher frame rate and deeper memory buffer, only one shot will be immediately successful. That's innovation, a lot more innovation than mirrorless is.

[Mistral75]

I don’t know that site: what’s their record like, in picking the most reliable “rumour”? The words are encouraging to Pentax followers, but I imagine we’ll just have to watch the next couple of weeks with cautious interest.

Carl Garrard is an American photographer who was close to Sony in the early 2010s. He then used to run the alphamountworld website (now discontinued). He runs several blogs and websites.

[MMVIII]

No, ogl. I value your contributions. Even if often in the minds eye I have to attach a disclaimer, or the phrase "IMO", which would give many statements a different tone. Maybe not everyone reads it like this? And a statement where you put your opinion as the "sane, normal" might oppose some who don't agree sometimes. Don't you think this is possible?

Anyhow, sorry for offtopic and no offence intended.
Best, M

[RonHendriks1966]

Hi all .

I have very trusted word today that Ricoh will definitely announce something at Photokina, or before, as opposed to no announcement of anything this year (some have been wondering, including myself).

Details have to wait, but its confirmed for sure. You know it's not going to be some lame point and shoot camera either. I was very happy to confirm that today. There is speculation on what is to be announced since April, but, I'm not so sure that's going to be all....

So look forward to Photokina (or anytime till then) for Ricoh/Pentax who have been pretty quiet since April. To me, that's good news and I wanted to share it here first because I care about the lot of you and like this website a lot.

p.s. Loving the K70 and the 55-300mm PLM. LOVING IT. Writing and photographing diligently...!

-Carl

This Carl is the same source as the other site named here.

So we are depending on one forum member who talked to his guy at the photo store.

[solitudebound]

I have been watching the Nikon, Canon and Sony mirrorless news lately. I've also been watching the number of pre-order claims and retractions. There is a rather large number of people canceling their new mirrorless pre-orders and picking up either NIB or used dslrs from Canon or Nikon. There has been an increase in Pentax sales however that would depend on the region.

There is also the vague rumor of Panasonic getting into the full frame market. Lately there has been an inordinate number of rather failed attempts at mirrorless full frame. Although there should not be so many deficiencies and requirements right off the bat. The add on cost for flimsy new mount type lenses, costly lenses that force a person to go third party, and not so low cost adapters. All in all at least for Nikon and Canon such weak attempts seem more like protecting their dslr line which is not a bad thing however it's a monumental waste of resources trying to save face and or attempt to appear futurist.

If Pentax has something interesting, useful and reliable to unveil then so much the better.

[RobA_Oz]

Just out of interest, by this list there are still 18 manufacturers of view cameras around the world. The appearance of a newer technology doesn’t automatically confine an older one solely to history. View cameras are a niche product, where once they were mainstream – if DSLRs become niche and Pentax can still bring a profit within that, then all well and good.

Only 24 more sleeps to Photokina 2018.

[RonHendriks1966]

Read the first post in this thread .

---------- Post added 09-03-2018 at 01:11 AM ----------


We'll yes, besides me .

Are you Carl Garrard?

[Mistral75]

Are you Carl Garrard?

Indeed, he is.

About Me
I am a professional photographer and co-own/run a Sony Alpha site.

You can view my images at Carl Garrard Photography - Personal Photos if you are interested to do so.

Rush2112 - View Profile - PentaxForums.com