[clackers]

Even then, Japanese companies have a history of working within what’s acknowledged to be the national interest, unlike many Western organisations.

Well, then they'd give a good price to a Japanese brother, right, Rob? The 42Mp sensor price must have come down since launch.

When they were together, an exclusion policy might work … don't sell outside the company until you have to. Now, they're separate divisions with separate bosses that could be sold off tomorrow. They report their own profits and losses, and they want to look good.

Nikon's D850 is powered by a 46Mp sensor that beats the A7R II and III and is built for them by … Sony.

[reh321]

Nikon's D850 is powered by a 46Mp sensor that beats the A7R II and III and is built for them by … Sony.

in the DxoMark tests, the two cameras are in a virtual tie.

Sony A7R III vs Nikon D850

[clackers]

in the DxoMark tests, the two cameras are in a virtual tie.

Sony A7R III vs Nikon D850

Well, you get 46 vs 42 Mps, Reh! DxO don't score for resolution, you know that.

That's serious technology in it … it's a BSI wafer … and Nikon claim it's theirs but a teardown revealed there's a Sony part number on it.

Apple now also source their camera sensors from Samsung, so Sony do need customers.

[funkythiru]

Was it true that Sammy partnered up with Pentax just for the sensor technology? But pentax never made their own sensor, right?

[reh321]

Well, you get 46 vs 42 Mps, Reh! DxO don't score for resolution, you know that.

And physically, that is a trivial difference, which an engineer would expect to be "lost in the noise".

[lukulele]

And physically, that is a trivial difference, which an engineer would expect to be "lost in the noise".

I thought this entire thread was the "lost in the noise" episode.

[Schraubstock]

Even then, Japanese companies have a history of working within what’s acknowledged to be the national interest, unlike many Western organisations.

Being a frequent visitor to Japan for pleasure and business for the last 20 years I can certainly vouch for this. In the manufacturing business, from personal experience, I have observed how even competing companies help each other out in times of need. However I also have to say that for a while now this attitude is starting to be somewhat watered down together with Japanese dietary habits in favour of western style junk food as is evidenced by Japanese in general getting taller and fatter.

...they're separate divisions with separate bosses that could be sold off tomorrow.

Most certainly, then we could get a new name for at least this part of the activity or it will be incorporated into the buyers name.
As it stands now perhaps it would be a good idea to give the chip business a new name to clearly show separation, but they are not doing it which leads me to think both parties are still connected by an “umbilical cord.”

If the cultural differences between Japan and western nations is not understood, we should not be tempted to see things from our western point of view. It is a fatal mistake done by western people going to Japan trying to do business.

[rawr]

Being a frequent visitor to Japan for pleasure and business for the last 20 years I can certainly vouch for this.

One doesn't have to look far to see it:

The Ricoh Way:

The Spirit of Three Loves by Kiyoshi Ichimura, Founder
“Love your neighbor”
“Love your country”
“Love your work”

Ricoh Way | Global | Ricoh

---------- Post added 2018-09-06 at 02:33 PM ----------

On another note, I came across this new [fanboy?] video on YouTube which does suggest some other ideas that Ricoh might be pursuing for new cameras. Maybe we will see this at Photokina.

A digital version of the old Ricoh rangefinders would be cool indeed. A Pentax equivalent of the Fujifilm X-100.

You Tube

You Tube

[RobA_Oz]

Well, then they'd give a good price to a Japanese brother, right, Rob? The 42Mp sensor price must have come down since launch.

When they were together, an exclusion policy might work … don't sell outside the company until you have to. Now, they're separate divisions with separate bosses that could be sold off tomorrow. They report their own profits and losses, and they want to look good.

Nikon's D850 is powered by a 46Mp sensor that beats the A7R II and III and is built for them by … Sony.

Brother or cousin: “who has precedence?” might be the question, but I acknowledge the point you’re making. If Nikon, why not Ricoh (I have no idea whose sensors find their way into Ricoh’s business and industrial systems)?

[clackers]

Brother or cousin: “who has precedence?” might be the question, but I acknowledge the point you’re making. If Nikon, why not Ricoh (I have no idea whose sensors find their way into Ricoh’s business and industrial systems)?

Yep, the Sony camera division sells to consumers (it was downgraded by Sony to low growth potential), the sensor division to businesses (upgraded in their last restructure to higher growth potential, hence the splitting off, but Samsung also supplying Apple has put a dampener on that).

Two different mindsets and strategies.

[thibs]

Was it true that Sammy partnered up with Pentax just for the sensor technology? But pentax never made their own sensor, right?

Pentax never designed their sensors.
K20D, K-7 sensors were done in collaboration with Samsung but clearly, Samsung made the sensors with input / specs from Pentax.

Pretty much the same as Nikon-Sony.

[ffking]

Yep, the Sony camera division sells to consumers (it was downgraded by Sony to low growth potential), the sensor division to businesses (upgraded in their last restructure to higher growth potential, hence the splitting off, but Samsung also supplying Apple has put a dampener on that).

Two different mindsets and strategies.

Just taking this as representative of the conversation, so not a direct response

It's not entirely clear to me that even if Sony operated like a full on US company that it would be in their best interests to not release their best sensors to competitors:

First.people quickly get to know the source of the sensor, and good performance is good advertising - and vice versa.

Second, keeping back the good stuff means you have to carry more of the development costs on your own camera (etc) sales

Third, you would encourage camera manufacturers to look elsewhere so your competitors would get a fresh influx of development cash and become more competitive (for slightly different reasons admittedly, but Canon are catching up, inch by inch)

Fourth, it makes you look afraid of the competition, like you have to sell them lower quality sensors to stop people preferring their cameras. Not good long term.

[beholder3]

Actively not selling to large amounts of potential buyers for the hope of some intangible advantage is a sure way to invite other competitors into the game while loosing money yourself.

[ffking]

Actively not selling to large amounts of potential buyers for the hope of some intangible advantage is a sure way to invite other competitors into the game while loosing money yourself.

concisely put

[biz-engineer]

Actively not selling to large amounts of potential buyers for the hope of some intangible advantage is a sure way to invite other competitors into the game while loosing money yourself.

concisely put

Management should read forums more often for free advice about what to do based on subjective assumption from the superior anonymous people .