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09-14-2018, 08:41 AM   #1291
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QuoteOriginally posted by gaweidert Quote
Kodak's issues were much more complex that that. During the 1970's and 1980's they invested heavily in several areas to take them past film. And there were quite successful. Then Wall Street started pounding them for not concentrating on their supposed core business and demanding that they sell off these distractions. Instead of telling Wall Street "Experts" to pound salt they sold off or spun off several very profitable lines of business so that they could concentrate in their supposed core business. When film started to die these same "experts" were demanding to know why Kodak could not foresee this.


Their biggest mistake was to spin off Eastman Chemical. This was this was the true lifeblood of Kodak. The way Kodak was set up, all profits were realized at the sale of the final product. So all the chemicals that went into a roll of film were sold to the film manufacturing group at cost. When Eastman Chemical was spun off the first thing that they did was raise the cost of the chemicals needed to manufacture film by 30%. Kodak screamed bloody murder, but Eastman Chemical now had shareholders that wanted to make money too. None of this was anticipated by the highly compensated management at Kodak.


Some very profitable businesses were spun off. The Clinical Diagnostics division was sold off. They had revolutionized the way blood was analyzed. The Kodak system needed a lot less blood drawn to get blood work results. This was a huge boon in the area of caring for premature infants. Instead of needing 20cc's of blood to be drawn, only a few drops were needed. Working on these products was the most satisfying job I had at Kodak because of the good that they did in people's lives.


There are several more similar stories that could be told. Senior managers who resisted these moves were simply fired. I will go to my grave believing that Antonio Perez's disastrous reign at CEO of Kodak was allowed to continue because he was doing what the board of directors wanted to be done, Namely the dissolution of the company. In any other publicly traded company if the CEO's performance was that of Perez's, Wall Street would have been demanding his removal. Yet, they were strangely silent as this went on. Wall Street brokers and bankers made several hundred million over the failure of Kodak. There was much more going on than simply decreased film sales. To those of us who watched this from the inside it was like suffering the death of a thousand cuts.


Kodak film is no longer made by Kodak. What is called Kodak today only supports the printing industry and that is in trouble too. Kodak stock is at $2.95 a share. Eastman Chemical stock is currently trading at $96.92. Kodak spun this part of the company off and received nothing in compensation.


Sorry for the long Kodak rant. I guess I haven't buried my resentment over what happened there deep enough yet. The Moderators can delete it if they so choose.


The Ricoh "plans" for Photokina look like window dressing and slim pickings at best. I am needing to replace a few things in my system and if Ricoh/Pentax doesn't want to keep up I guess I will have to look elsewhere. I did not have high expectations for this show but this looks even worse than I thought it would be. People are not leaving Pentax. Pentax is leaving them. Photokina is supposed to be "THE SHOW". A few planned discussions on street photography is not a good sign. I doubt that their booth will be heavily attended.
I guess I would just say that I would wait till the first part of next year before making any decisions. Pentax is clearly slow in developing new bodies and lenses, but the rate of progress for everything except new mirrorless bodies has slowed a bit. On the other hand, based on lenses like the DFA *70-200, 150-450, and 50, they are still capable of optical excellence when they exert themselves.

Hopefully we see more of the same next year, but for the moment my Pentax cameras and lenses still take photos and do an adequate job of meeting my needs.

09-14-2018, 08:50 AM - 1 Like   #1292
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I have been waiting since the fall of 2016 for the K-3II replacement. Even at this point, I'm still not desperate. I'm still willing to wait until fall of next year for it. I have my 2 K-50 bodies & 5 lenses that I try to use daily. I also have a D7200 & a few zoom lenses for when I want to catch a bit more action like BIF, nieces/nephews running around, or just things that can't stay put. I don't need to get a camera just yet. I can still wait around.

Everyone else is making some superb cameras. The future is more than likely going to shift to mirrorless. It's not like 10 years from now DSLR cameras will be non-existant either. They'll probably be around for at least another 20 years, but will probably become a bit more expensive as time goes by.

For those waiting, they have nothing to lose. We'll either get a very amazingly good K-3II replacement from Ricoh or we won't. Even if we don't, all is not lost. With Canon & Nikon entering the mirrorless race, competition will breed some very nice cameras. Panasonic is about to go FF mirrorless too. Even the m43 bodies are churning out some excellent images. I'm quite certain that Ricoh is not going to stay idle either.

If your camera & lenses are currently working fine, then no need to worry. Keep on shooting them & getting better at taking photos. If you need a camera to replace your current camera that has issues or just need a camera hold you off for a bit, there's the excellent & kind of cheap K-70 or you can always get a used body from this forum or on eBay. We'll get something sooner or later whether it comes from Ricoh or we jump ship to another brand that has something that suits us. We really can't lose at all. Good things come to those who wait.

But yeah. Patience also has its limits too. We can only wait for so long & the other camera makers are not helping the cause either. Hahahaha!
09-14-2018, 08:54 AM - 2 Likes   #1293
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It will be interesting to see a working Tokina 50mm 1.4 opera and hear how it is different from the phat 50. That's pentax news sort of.
09-14-2018, 08:57 AM - 1 Like   #1294
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I don't want the new products rate of the competitors... my wallet doesn't want this...

I think that you must have more confidence in RICOH and PENTAX.

09-14-2018, 09:24 AM - 2 Likes   #1295
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Thank you.


Perhaps that is some of the angst here; if you retired on the end of the old corporate pension system's end you might have a different view of loyalty. To the working stiffs still in the work force battling a shifting job market and often corporate churn, it is a totally different outlook (on companies). We're not married thus not obligated to work it out. But if you have something I am interested in, then let's talk. And I sure hope Pentax is offering somethings attractive soon.
I worked for Kodak for 24 years and then got laid off in 1998. I went to work for a company out of Vancouver, BC. Best place I ever worked for. Then after 5 years Kodak purchased them and I was back at Kodak. I worked 12 more years and then retired. When I started for Kodak they had a 401(k) but you had to work there 5 years to be eligible. When you were eligible they did not match because they had a pension plan. It was years and several changes to the pension plan later when the started to do any match in some years. But I participated because it was a way to shelter a bit of income and to have some extra money in retirement. .


During my "career" at Kodak I was shuffled to a subsidiary but they made promises about us being able to get back into the pension plan and reestablish out seniority. The funny thing was that just before they brought us all back in they changed the rules again and that promise was out the door. Long story short, is that after 42 years at Kodak my pension is $132.53 per month instead of the $3,000 a month that is should have been. If not for my 401(k) I would be hurtin for certain. Other promised, and paid for, retirement benefits were rescinded too.


You have to be as loyal to a company as it is to you. You also need to have the attitude that everything that they tell you is a lie. The only promise that Kodak management ever made to it's employees that ever came true were promised layoffs. Like I said in an earlier post the death of Kodak is very personal to me. My only consolation is that the CEO's who presided over it made hundreds of millions of dollars so I am grateful for that.

Last edited by gaweidert; 09-14-2018 at 05:04 PM.
09-14-2018, 09:46 AM   #1296
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QuoteOriginally posted by The Squirrel Mafia Quote
I have been waiting since the fall of 2016 for the K-3II replacement. Even at this point, I'm still not desperate. I'm still willing to wait until fall of next year for it. I have my 2 K-50 bodies & 5 lenses that I try to use daily. I also have a D7200 & a few zoom lenses for when I want to catch a bit more action like BIF, nieces/nephews running around, or just things that can't stay put. I don't need to get a camera just yet. I can still wait around.

Everyone else is making some superb cameras.
I could wait if I want to also. I purchased my K-30 in June 2015, and right now only the first frame of the day is dark; if we get past then, I have some fine lenses with aperture controls on the lens.

Pentax is also making some superb cameras. Either the K-1 or the KP would be just fine for me and I could use either to take virtually every photo I've taken in the past three years. If I took photos of my daughters with the Super Program on the left side of my signature, I should be able to take photos of their daughters {if they would have any} with the K-30 on the right side of my signature.
09-14-2018, 11:06 AM   #1297
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Ricoh programme for Photokina - Photographer, Partner, Lectures, Exhibitions.
Looks interesting. Quite a lot going on - K-1, GR, Theta etc:

Photokina Programm 2018 - RICOH IMAGING DEUTSCHLAND GmbH

09-14-2018, 11:14 AM   #1298
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Ricoh programme for Photokina - Photographer, Partner, Lectures, Exhibitions.Looks interesting. Quite a lot going on - K-1, GR, Theta etc:
Yes, it's good. There is a lot of emphasis on the Ricoh GR. GR update with KP guts is very plausible, doesn't require lots of engineering, essentially refactoring on existing IP, and that would offer a compact travel option beside the K1.
09-14-2018, 01:10 PM - 1 Like   #1299
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
That's a slight exaggeration. When I went to the Nikon demo yesterday, the cameras were in constant use - passed from person to person to person - and the batteries lasted at least the 30 minutes I was there.
Is it really an exaggeration? I hope so. According to this Nikon Z 7 | Interchangeable Lens Mirrorless Camera
the battery lasts approximately 330pics and it’s an action camera as well. If I took a Z7 at an airshow I would shoot flypasts with 5,5fps AF-C burst rate so with an average 6sec burst (~30frames) I could take 10-12 flypasts or take offs before I needed a new battery

This is quite unacceptable for any serious action shooting. Even with a 2 batteries grip I would need 3 batteries for 1000 pics or every more or less 2 hours of intense shooting! Try to compare that with D850 and you’ll see my point.
09-14-2018, 01:38 PM - 2 Likes   #1300
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330 pics is according to CIPA standard, which is very demanding for the battery:

http://www.cipa.jp/std/documents/e/DC-002_e.pdf
  • Full illumination flash shall be used for one of every two pictures taken.
  • For the duration of the test, the color monitor shall be lit continuously in the mode in which it can be used as the viewfinder. For cameras equipped with two or more color monitors, the test can be conducted with only the most power consuming one lit continuously.
  • Shooting shall begin 30 seconds after the power is turned on.
  • Shooting shall proceed at a rate of one picture every 30 seconds.
  • Power shall be turned off after every 10th picture has been shot and processed.

The Pentax K3 is rated to 560 shots.
09-14-2018, 01:43 PM   #1301
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My bottom record for the K-3 is 11 shots. Had it been a mirrorless i may have gotten 1 shot. Maybe....
09-14-2018, 02:35 PM   #1302
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QuoteOriginally posted by redpit Quote
Is it really an exaggeration? I hope so. According to this Nikon Z 7 | Interchangeable Lens Mirrorless Camera
the battery lasts approximately 330pics and it’s an action camera as well. If I took a Z7 at an airshow I would shoot flypasts with 5,5fps AF-C burst rate so with an average 6sec burst (~30frames) I could take 10-12 flypasts or take offs before I needed a new battery

This is quite unacceptable for any serious action shooting. Even with a 2 batteries grip I would need 3 batteries for 1000 pics or every more or less 2 hours of intense shooting! Try to compare that with D850 and you’ll see my point.
and did we mention that it weighs 64% what a D850 weighs??

My point is that we need to wait - not use the 'doomed' word until we see how actual Nikon users react.

Last edited by reh321; 09-14-2018 at 02:48 PM.
09-14-2018, 03:22 PM   #1303
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QuoteOriginally posted by redpit Quote
Is it really an exaggeration? I hope so. According to this Nikon Z 7 | Interchangeable Lens Mirrorless Camera
the battery lasts approximately 330pics and it’s an action camera as well. If I took a Z7 at an airshow I would shoot flypasts with 5,5fps AF-C burst rate so with an average 6sec burst (~30frames) I could take 10-12 flypasts or take offs before I needed a new battery

This is quite unacceptable for any serious action shooting. Even with a 2 batteries grip I would need 3 batteries for 1000 pics or every more or less 2 hours of intense shooting! Try to compare that with D850 and you’ll see my point.
This afternoon I went to a local college and spent 30 minutes photographing squirrels - a total of 34 was added to the shutter count of my K-30. Is my use case typical? I don't know - but I also have no reason to think that your air show use case is typical of Nikon FF users - maybe those who think in those terms will continue to use D500.
09-14-2018, 03:27 PM - 1 Like   #1304
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QuoteOriginally posted by gaweidert Quote
You have to be as loyal to a company as it is to you. You also need to have the attitude that everything that they tell you is a lie. The only promise that Kodak management ever made to it's employees that ever came true were promised layoffs. Like I said in an earlier post the death of Kodak is very person to me. My only consolation is that the CEO's who presided over it made hundreds of millions of dollars so I am grateful for that.

I'm glad you had the retirement account and didn't just settle for the pension!!

I've been downsized a few times and it is no fun. Each out of the blue, the second time they gave me a raise a month before showing me the door. I was rehired by the first place, doing the same job at a higher pay rate, years later and reoffered my old position at the third place (for substantially more money) so it wasn't personal or performance issues. They just don't look at employees as people with lives and families, you're a financial burden but also a necessity so long as they see the necessity. Sometimes they think you're not a necessity until you're gone, then realize you were essential. But I'm a believer in a sovereign God that has purpose in these events. And I must say I grew substantially as a result of them... even though sudden change and uncertainty is never pleasant.


I find it a bit eerie though to have a retirement account built around the performance of the stock market.. but that is what we do here. The next 30 years should be interesting. I wonder how many startups, mergers, and partnerships will occur in the camera field alone...
09-14-2018, 03:29 PM   #1305
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
This afternoon I went to a local college and spent 30 minutes photographing squirrels - a total of 34 was added to the shutter count of my K-30. Is my use case typical? I don't know - but I also have no reason to think that your air show use case is typical of Nikon FF users - maybe those who think in those terms will continue to use D500.

Personally, i would typically used most of that time looking to the viewfinder not using electricity with a dslr...
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