Hoya Closing Japan Pentax Factory - The end of the FA Limiteds?

RiceHigh · 09-20-2008, 03:23 AM

Originally posted by ftpaddict

Just ask Apple.

Why not ask Canon, Nikon, Sony and Olympus??

ftpaddict · 09-20-2008, 03:58 AM

Originally posted by RiceHigh

Why not ask Canon, Nikon, Sony and Olympus??

Because Apple makes very high quality products in China, where workers get paid something like $4/week.

RiceHigh · 09-20-2008, 04:12 AM

Originally posted by ftpaddict

Because Apple makes very high quality products in China, where workers get paid something like $4/week.

Chinese workers in China are now having much higher wages than what you said. That's why Hoya also closing all the Pentax factories in China at the same time, before the end of this fiscal year.

ftpaddict · 09-20-2008, 04:19 AM

Originally posted by RiceHigh

Chinese workers in China are now having much higher wages than what you said. That's why Hoya also closing all the Pentax factories in China at the same time, before the end of this fiscal year.

You're digressing. The quality has always been there; even before the pay rise.

Peter Zack · 09-20-2008, 04:22 AM

Originally posted by Mike Cash

I wasn't aware that you are a Japanese speaker. That's interesting.

Yeah interesting like stepping on a nail.

ftpaddict · 09-20-2008, 04:26 AM

Originally posted by Peter Zack

Yeah interesting like stepping on a nail.

It's a rush!

deejjjaaaa · 09-20-2008, 05:53 AM

Originally posted by ftpaddict

OH NO! Nobody cares!

The process is mostly automatic nowadays, the workers just have to glue and spit-shine the glass. The lenses will still be designed in Japan.

Didn't you get why Pentax products are generally cheaper than Canon/Nikon/whoever? Because they have factories in the Philippines and Vietnam; not in Japan, where wages are higher.

how about Sigma - Sigma states everything is made in Japan, yet... oh - they probably smuggle people to work there from abroad...

séamuis · 09-20-2008, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Could this mark then end of our beloved limiteds, or perhaps just the end of their production in Japan?

as far as I am aware only the FA limiteds were ever assembled in Japan. All of the DA limiteds are assembled in Vietnam. I agree that there is a certain 'something of distinction' about having something made in Japan as opposed to other Asian countries, especially concerning Pentax but this is business, and that's how it goes. Canon and Nikon are no different, they both have Japanese assembled lenses but they also have more of their fare share of lenses assembled in other Asian countries. besides there is nothing wrong with Vietnam as a whole and I dont mind, giving anyone in that country a job!

reeftool · 09-20-2008, 06:57 AM

Outsourcing to third world backwater places to take advantage of cheap labor always results in an inferior product with quality control issues no matter what the products are. There are postings all over the forum about certain lenses that you may have to return a few times before you get a good copy. Most older SLR users think of their cameras as a finely machined, quality piece of equiptment that will be reliable and last many years but the camera makers seem determined to turn the SLR into a disposable throwaway that needs to be replaced every couple of years so they can crank out new models at a higher price. With the higher price of fuel they may discover that the shipping costs will eat up the savings of the cheap labor and then what? Cut corners on the material? Do away with weather sealing and make a plastic camera that floats? If all the highly paid skilled jobs in Japan, North America, and Europe get outsourced who is going to BUY the cameras? Sorry for the rant.

Albert Siegel · 09-20-2008, 06:58 AM

Originally posted by ftpaddict

Because Apple makes very high quality products in China, where workers get paid something like $4/week.

As someone who has owned Apple products since the 80's, I disagree. Most Apple hardware these days is total junk in my opinion. I have not owned a single Apple product in the last seven years that has not required repair other than two Mac minis.

My DUO 2300c, Powerbook G3, iBook G3, Powerbook G4, Powermac 9500 180/MP, iMac G4 20" (last version) have all required a hardware repair. The iMac needed a new logicboard and power supply. I just threw it in storage as apple refused to repair it even though it's a very well known apple defect on this model.

Either Apple can't design a product that will last long, or they are poorly made. Either way, I think Apple products are total junk. I only use them because I need software only available on Mac. I wish I could run OSX without issues on windows based hardware. At least I would be able to buy a computer that would not blow a speaker on my lap and scare the hell out of me by thinking it was the well known battery issue.

RiceHigh · 09-20-2008, 07:07 AM

Originally posted by deejjjaaaa

how about Sigma - Sigma states everything is made in Japan, yet... oh - they probably smuggle people to work there from abroad...

Sigma prints "Lens made in Japan"!

RiceHigh · 09-20-2008, 07:11 AM

Originally posted by séamuis

as far as I am aware only the FA limiteds were ever assembled in Japan. All of the DA limiteds are assembled in Vietnam. I agree that there is a certain 'something of distinction' about having something made in Japan as opposed to other Asian countries, especially concerning Pentax but this is business, and that's how it goes. Canon and Nikon are no different, they both have Japanese assembled lenses but they also have more of their fare share of lenses assembled in other Asian countries. besides there is nothing wrong with Vietnam as a whole and I dont mind, giving anyone in that country a job!

Well, my FA Limited and FA* lenses are clearly marked "MADE in Japan", so do nearly all of my F and FA primes and my fisheye zoom.

My MZ-S, SFX bodies are marked "Made in Japan", whereas the MZ-30 is marked "Made in Philipinnees" but nothing was marked for my own *ist D, DS and K100D units (yes, those sold in China marked nothing, particularly!)

My Canon 5D and 24-105L are marked "Made in Japan", whereas the cheaper EF 85/1.8 marked "Lens Made in Japan" and nothing marked for my EF 50/1.5 plastic lens.

But you're right that low end products needed to be migrated out of the Japan home production lines.

claude21 · 09-20-2008, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by AlbertSiegel

I wish I could run OSX without issues on windows based hardware. At least I would be able to buy a computer that would not blow a speaker on my lap and scare the hell out of me by thinking it was the well known battery issue.

I run leopard on a standard vanilla pc, as well as windows xp and linux. Just choose the right hardware for os x. Now, with EFI boot loader it's really easy. However I don't like osx so much, I just use it to test things and it works flawlessly through.

ghelary · 09-20-2008, 07:26 AM

In the past, "made in Japan" was not particularly a sign of quality, it's just recently that it has been similar to "made in Germany".

"made in Vietnam" or "made in China" may follow the same pass as "made In Korea" or "made in Taiwan" are making now. Having Hoya moving Pentax top line to those factories is not a bad sign per se. Maybe, internally they are thinking that those factories are mature enough for such a task. But definitively, they want also to reduce costs.

deejjjaaaa · 09-20-2008, 08:26 AM

Originally posted by RiceHigh

Sigma prints "Lens made in Japan"!

I know - I was making a point that Sigma manages to find cheap labor even in Japan

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Shutter on Pentax SV not closing entirely	jdbell	Film SLRs and Compact Film Cameras	11	01-23-2011 05:51 AM
New DA L 35 mm F2.4 not to arrive in Japan before the end of November	JoepLX3	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	0	10-14-2010 12:06 AM
HOYA CEO admits not keeping Pentax camera division in the HOYA group?	yakiniku	Pentax News and Rumors	61	10-18-2009 02:15 PM
Good news from Japan: Pentax getting profitable for Hoya?	gazonk	Pentax News and Rumors	46	09-23-2009 01:08 PM

09-20-2008, 03:23 AM	#16
RiceHigh Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 1,934	Originally posted by ftpaddict Just ask Apple. Why not ask Canon, Nikon, Sony and Olympus??

09-20-2008, 03:58 AM	#17
ftpaddict Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Yurp Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,666	Originally posted by RiceHigh Why not ask Canon, Nikon, Sony and Olympus?? Because Apple makes very high quality products in China, where workers get paid something like $4/week.

09-20-2008, 04:12 AM	#18
RiceHigh Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 1,934	Originally posted by ftpaddict Because Apple makes very high quality products in China, where workers get paid something like $4/week. Chinese workers in China are now having much higher wages than what you said. That's why Hoya also closing all the Pentax factories in China at the same time, before the end of this fiscal year.

09-20-2008, 04:19 AM	#19
ftpaddict Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Yurp Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,666	Originally posted by RiceHigh Chinese workers in China are now having much higher wages than what you said. That's why Hoya also closing all the Pentax factories in China at the same time, before the end of this fiscal year. You're digressing. The quality has always been there; even before the pay rise.

09-20-2008, 04:22 AM	#20
Peter Zack Pentaxian Moderator Emeritus Join Date: May 2007 Location: Edmonton Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 10,643	Originally posted by Mike Cash I wasn't aware that you are a Japanese speaker. That's interesting. Yeah interesting like stepping on a nail.

09-20-2008, 04:26 AM	#21
ftpaddict Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Yurp Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,666	Originally posted by Peter Zack Yeah interesting like stepping on a nail. It's a rush!

09-20-2008, 05:53 AM	#22
deejjjaaaa Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: steel city / rust belt Posts: 2,043	Originally posted by ftpaddict OH NO! Nobody cares! The process is mostly automatic nowadays, the workers just have to glue and spit-shine the glass. The lenses will still be designed in Japan. Didn't you get why Pentax products are generally cheaper than Canon/Nikon/whoever? Because they have factories in the Philippines and Vietnam; not in Japan, where wages are higher. how about Sigma - Sigma states everything is made in Japan, yet... oh - they probably smuggle people to work there from abroad...

09-20-2008, 06:10 AM	#23
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	Quote: Could this mark then end of our beloved limiteds, or perhaps just the end of their production in Japan? as far as I am aware only the FA limiteds were ever assembled in Japan. All of the DA limiteds are assembled in Vietnam. I agree that there is a certain 'something of distinction' about having something made in Japan as opposed to other Asian countries, especially concerning Pentax but this is business, and that's how it goes. Canon and Nikon are no different, they both have Japanese assembled lenses but they also have more of their fare share of lenses assembled in other Asian countries. besides there is nothing wrong with Vietnam as a whole and I dont mind, giving anyone in that country a job!

09-20-2008, 06:57 AM	#24
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,554	Outsourcing to third world backwater places to take advantage of cheap labor always results in an inferior product with quality control issues no matter what the products are. There are postings all over the forum about certain lenses that you may have to return a few times before you get a good copy. Most older SLR users think of their cameras as a finely machined, quality piece of equiptment that will be reliable and last many years but the camera makers seem determined to turn the SLR into a disposable throwaway that needs to be replaced every couple of years so they can crank out new models at a higher price. With the higher price of fuel they may discover that the shipping costs will eat up the savings of the cheap labor and then what? Cut corners on the material? Do away with weather sealing and make a plastic camera that floats? If all the highly paid skilled jobs in Japan, North America, and Europe get outsourced who is going to BUY the cameras? Sorry for the rant.

09-20-2008, 06:58 AM	#25
Albert Siegel Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Tokyo Photos: Albums Posts: 372	Originally posted by ftpaddict Because Apple makes very high quality products in China, where workers get paid something like $4/week. As someone who has owned Apple products since the 80's, I disagree. Most Apple hardware these days is total junk in my opinion. I have not owned a single Apple product in the last seven years that has not required repair other than two Mac minis. My DUO 2300c, Powerbook G3, iBook G3, Powerbook G4, Powermac 9500 180/MP, iMac G4 20" (last version) have all required a hardware repair. The iMac needed a new logicboard and power supply. I just threw it in storage as apple refused to repair it even though it's a very well known apple defect on this model. Either Apple can't design a product that will last long, or they are poorly made. Either way, I think Apple products are total junk. I only use them because I need software only available on Mac. I wish I could run OSX without issues on windows based hardware. At least I would be able to buy a computer that would not blow a speaker on my lap and scare the hell out of me by thinking it was the well known battery issue.

09-20-2008, 07:07 AM	#26
RiceHigh Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 1,934	Originally posted by deejjjaaaa how about Sigma - Sigma states everything is made in Japan, yet... oh - they probably smuggle people to work there from abroad... Sigma prints "Lens made in Japan"!

09-20-2008, 07:11 AM	#27
RiceHigh Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 1,934	Originally posted by séamuis as far as I am aware only the FA limiteds were ever assembled in Japan. All of the DA limiteds are assembled in Vietnam. I agree that there is a certain 'something of distinction' about having something made in Japan as opposed to other Asian countries, especially concerning Pentax but this is business, and that's how it goes. Canon and Nikon are no different, they both have Japanese assembled lenses but they also have more of their fare share of lenses assembled in other Asian countries. besides there is nothing wrong with Vietnam as a whole and I dont mind, giving anyone in that country a job! Well, my FA Limited and FA* lenses are clearly marked "MADE in Japan", so do nearly all of my F and FA primes and my fisheye zoom. My MZ-S, SFX bodies are marked "Made in Japan", whereas the MZ-30 is marked "Made in Philipinnees" but nothing was marked for my own *ist D, DS and K100D units (yes, those sold in China marked nothing, particularly!) My Canon 5D and 24-105L are marked "Made in Japan", whereas the cheaper EF 85/1.8 marked "Lens Made in Japan" and nothing marked for my EF 50/1.5 plastic lens. But you're right that low end products needed to be migrated out of the Japan home production lines.

09-20-2008, 07:16 AM	#28
claude21 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 55	Originally posted by AlbertSiegel I wish I could run OSX without issues on windows based hardware. At least I would be able to buy a computer that would not blow a speaker on my lap and scare the hell out of me by thinking it was the well known battery issue. I run leopard on a standard vanilla pc, as well as windows xp and linux. Just choose the right hardware for os x. Now, with EFI boot loader it's really easy. However I don't like osx so much, I just use it to test things and it works flawlessly through.

09-20-2008, 07:26 AM	#29
ghelary Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 613	In the past, "made in Japan" was not particularly a sign of quality, it's just recently that it has been similar to "made in Germany". "made in Vietnam" or "made in China" may follow the same pass as "made In Korea" or "made in Taiwan" are making now. Having Hoya moving Pentax top line to those factories is not a bad sign per se. Maybe, internally they are thinking that those factories are mature enough for such a task. But definitively, they want also to reduce costs.

09-20-2008, 08:26 AM	#30
deejjjaaaa Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: steel city / rust belt Posts: 2,043	Originally posted by RiceHigh Sigma prints "Lens made in Japan"! I know - I was making a point that Sigma manages to find cheap labor even in Japan