Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
11-04-2018, 11:40 AM   #241
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Larrymc's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Mississippi, USA
Posts: 5,245
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
(Not like I care; 10,000 for a camera is too much for me).
Not many "average" Pentax enthusiasts can afford a $10,000 camera!

For the life of me, I can't understand the reasoning of people who push for a Med Format camera first over an APS-C DSLR. Seems to me the "tech" from an APS-C high spec DSLR could trickle up to a Med Format DSLR. I just don't see how a low volume camera like a Med Format DSLR could be more profitable than an APS-C DSLR based on units sold.

11-04-2018, 11:49 AM   #242
Veteran Member
mecrox's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxford, UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,375
QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
Not many "average" Pentax enthusiasts can afford a $10,000 camera!

For the life of me, I can't understand the reasoning of people who push for a Med Format camera first over an APS-C DSLR. Seems to me the "tech" from an APS-C high spec DSLR could trickle up to a Med Format DSLR. I just don't see how a low volume camera like a Med Format DSLR could be more profitable than an APS-C DSLR based on units sold.
This goes back to something which has been around for a long time now: a very small company trying to keep abreast of three different formats as well as an insalata mixta of compacts, GR, Theta et al. I’d thought that the “reduction in line-up” mentioned in Ricoh’s quarterly financial statements was a strong hint that streamlining was on the way and thus a concentration on fewer lines, the ones they know they can do well at a decent margin. That’s likely to mean tough choices down the road as one line or format first slows and then drops off the twig but it may be the best way of securing a better future for the strongest parts of the biz. Maybe medium format isn’t one of them now that Fuji and co are involved? And if someone thinks medium format is a strong line, then which other line would one prune or even eliminate instead? It’s not easy is it.

Last edited by mecrox; 11-04-2018 at 11:55 AM.
11-04-2018, 11:54 AM - 4 Likes   #243
Pentaxian
Mistral75's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 7,505
QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
(...)

Ricoh needs to put a full 6x4.5 sensor on the 645z body and get it to market at the $10,000 mark and it need to be image stabilized. They need to update the glass as well.

(...).
QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Fuji already announced a price of $9,999
The so-called 'Fujifilm GFX 100 Megapixels' has a 'cropped 645' sensor: 33x44mm.

The current 'full 645' Sony sensor (40x53.4mm, film 645 being 41.5x56mm) is a 150MP BSI sensor. There is also an older 40x53.4mm 100MP FSI sensor in Sony's portfolio (same generation as the 33x44 50MP FSI sensor in the 645Z).
11-04-2018, 12:12 PM   #244
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 15,132
Thanks, Mistral - how did I miss this? Of course, Fuji GFX is a "crop" system.


Last edited by Kunzite; 11-04-2018 at 12:35 PM.
11-04-2018, 12:27 PM   #245
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Larrymc's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Mississippi, USA
Posts: 5,245
QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
This goes back to something which has been around for a long time now: a very small company trying to keep abreast of three different formats as well as an insalata mixta of compacts, GR, Theta et al. I’d thought that the “reduction in line-up” mentioned in Ricoh’s quarterly financial statements was a strong hint that streamlining was on the way and thus a concentration on fewer lines, the ones they know they can do well at a decent margin. That’s likely to mean tough choices down the road as one line or format first slows and then drops off the twig but it may be the best way of securing a better future for the strongest parts of the biz. Maybe medium format isn’t one of them now that Fuji and co are involved? And if someone thinks medium format is a strong line, then which other line would one prune or even eliminate instead? It’s not easy is it.
Good points. My knod goes to the formats that get more cameras in the hands of more photography enthusiasts.
11-04-2018, 02:13 PM   #246
Pentaxian
D1N0's Avatar

Join Date: May 2012
Location: ---
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,802
QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
The term "I think" means you are expressing your opinion so if its your opinion what is wrong with @Kunzite expressing his opinion? After all the people who know aren't saying and the people who don't know express their desires and wants as their opinions.
Thank you for pointing out to me I am expressing an opinion. I didn't know because I am a complete idiot. That's why I also didn't know I said there was something wrong with Kunzites opinion when I was merely stating what it was.
11-04-2018, 03:21 PM - 1 Like   #247
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Larrymc's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Mississippi, USA
Posts: 5,245
QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
Thank you for pointing out to me I am expressing an opinion. I didn't know because I am a complete idiot. That's why I also didn't know I said there was something wrong with Kunzites opinion when I was merely stating what it was.
No problem, Ol Buddy! I'm always glad to help.

11-04-2018, 03:36 PM   #248
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 15,132
Thank you, D1N0, for helping me speak my mind - but I'd like to actually have a saying in this.
Too often I'm accused of points of view complete opposite of mines.
11-04-2018, 03:50 PM   #249
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
RobA_Oz's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,182
QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
Not many "average" Pentax enthusiasts can afford a $10,000 camera!

For the life of me, I can't understand the reasoning of people who push for a Med Format camera first over an APS-C DSLR. Seems to me the "tech" from an APS-C high spec DSLR could trickle up to a Med Format DSLR. I just don't see how a low volume camera like a Med Format DSLR could be more profitable than an APS-C DSLR based on units sold.
I don’t know any more than you do, but the only economic reason you would pursue such a venture is if its rate of return is expected to be higher than for competing uses of the investment. If that’s the case, then I’d applaud their decision – after all, the returns could assist in funding the APS-C line’s development.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Thanks, Mistral - how did I miss this? Of course, Fuji GFX is a "crop" system.
Forgive me asking, but does that mean the GFX lens mount is capable of supporting a full frame 645 sensor, in future? I would have thought that having a close registration distance might have hampered that development.
11-04-2018, 04:00 PM   #250
Veteran Member




Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 6,617
QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
The so-called 'Fujifilm GFX 100 Megapixels' has a 'cropped 645' sensor: 33x44mm.

The current 'full 645' Sony sensor (40x53.4mm, film 645 being 41.5x56mm) is a 150MP BSI sensor. There is also an older 40x53.4mm 100MP FSI sensor in Sony's portfolio (same generation as the 33x44 50MP FSI sensor in the 645Z).
It does, but Ricoh does need a sensor designed for mirrorless. The same generation of sensor tech that is in the 645z and K1 would be fine. They just need to take advantage of the larger mount and mirror box to put a full size 645 sensor in it. The older sensor tech is not nearly as expensive as the newer BSI that will be in the Fuji.

---------- Post added 11-04-18 at 05:02 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
Forgive me asking, but does that mean the GFX lens mount is capable of supporting a full frame 645 sensor, in future? I would have thought that having a close registration distance might have hampered that development.
Nope. It was designed specifically for the crop 645 that is in the 50s.
11-04-2018, 04:47 PM   #251
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 15,132
QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
Forgive me asking, but does that mean the GFX lens mount is capable of supporting a full frame 645 sensor, in future? I would have thought that having a close registration distance might have hampered that development.
I must be so horrible that people started asking their forgiveness for asking questions!
I'm joking, of course, but such questions are appreciated - it shows that you care what I think about this matter. And that my post lacked clarity, or was incomplete.

To answer your question: I don't actually know about the GFX mount; it looks about the same diameter as Pentax 645 but the smaller registration distance might indeed hamper using larger sensors. I believe Winder is correct, it was made for the cropped medium format - and using a larger sensor is probably at least difficult.
However, I was thinking about lenses: the current GFX lenses being made for the "cropped" 645, they would have to start again with a "FF645" line. Not impossible, but I don't see it happening.

I expect Fujifilm to continue with the two "cropped" formats.
11-04-2018, 05:13 PM   #252
Veteran Member
kooks's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: San José, Costa Rica
Photos: Albums
Posts: 794
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
All I want is the Accelerator chip, K-1II AF system, a larger buffer, and the tilting back screen.
I still think that this (buffer issue) had to be addressed when Ricoh released the K1ii and they didn't, that "simple" problem is making people leave the system or at least investing in something else, perhaps if this issue were fix by that time this topic wouldn't even exist, and maybe.. just maybe, Kenspo would be still shooting Pentax as his main photography system.

In my case this problem made me missed great shots for my clients, sucks big time.

Perhaps is better for Pentax to only have 1 APS-C entry body and 1 APS-C flag ship.. 1 general porpuse FF (similar to A7iii, D750, etc) and 1 high definition FF (as K1).. that is it.. all sharing same bodys but with different features and image sensors, at least that is what sony and others are doing and is working for them..

Last edited by kooks; 11-04-2018 at 05:26 PM.
11-04-2018, 06:01 PM   #253
Pentaxian
reh321's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 23,122
QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
I still think that this (buffer issue) had to be addressed when Ricoh released the K1ii and they didn't, that "simple" problem is making people leave the system or at least investing in something else, perhaps if this issue were fix by that time this topic wouldn't even exist, and maybe.. just maybe, Kenspo would be still shooting Pentax as his main photography system.

In my case this problem made me missed great shots for my clients, sucks big time.

Perhaps is better for Pentax to only have 1 APS-C entry body and 1 APS-C flag ship.. 1 general porpuse FF (similar to A7iii, D750, etc) and 1 high definition FF (as K1).. that is it.. all sharing same bodys but with different features and image sensors, at least that is what sony and others are doing and is working for them..
What makes you think that the "buffer issue" is "simple" - that it could be easily solved?
11-04-2018, 07:06 PM   #254
JPT
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tokyo
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,817
I don't understand why people feel there is such a conflict between APS-C, full frame and crop medium format. What Ricoh needs to develop for all these lines is a new AF module, some faster electronics, and perhaps a metering system. Based on previous experience, they are likely to share these between all three formats. This kind of development is basically business as usual for a camera maker. The problem is that a lot of people have got used to frequent product refreshes that the market can't justify that any more.

Let's hypothetically say that Pentax is working on a 24mp full frame camera that is more suited to sports. It would have a new processor and AF system, at the very least. They could take most of it and make an APS-C sister model, just like Nikon did with the D5/D500. They could then go ahead with a refresh of the 645 with the same AF module and a newer sensor. I would say it is likely that Ricoh will do something like this (i.e. sharing most components).

With 645, I don't think they will develop it to the same extent that they will with K-mount, but it is one of their signature products. It's practically a legend with landscape photographers in Japan. I think they will just continue to come out with better bodies every five years and let those photographers keep using their legacy lenses at f16-22. In the meanwhile, full frame K-mount will be the Pentax answer for high resolution handheld photography.
11-04-2018, 07:24 PM   #255
Veteran Member
kooks's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: San José, Costa Rica
Photos: Albums
Posts: 794
QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
What makes you think that the "buffer issue" is "simple" - that it could be easily solved?
I don't know how the circuitry was made, they might have to change a lot of circuits, or they might just have to do some "minor" tweaks, that is something that I dont know.. but we can't deny that is a very known and puntual issue that had to be addressed in order to make the camera more competitive in the actual market, I bet that Ricoh engineers know how to do it and how to resolve it. My main point is that if they would give us the same K1 but just without the buffer issue and Im sure that we would have a totally different story about Pentax K1, IMO it would be a "fresh air" until they make a new model.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
ambassador, balance, burst, colombia, compression, countries, depth, distributor, exposure, iq, iso, jpeg, k1, kenspo moves, lenses, level, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, person, pics, pm, post, posts, range, thanks, time, wb
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Reconciling the Kenspo/Normhead Lens Discordance... rampant speculation... TwoUptons Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 67 12-23-2017 05:27 AM
Sony moves to #2 in US Full Frame Market/Sales Winder Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Other Camera Brands 93 04-22-2017 10:53 AM
Kenspo! crop 1:1 question. Gimbal Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 31 02-21-2016 11:48 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:36 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top