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09-24-2008, 06:46 AM   #166
ogl
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OK. Sorry.

09-24-2008, 06:48 AM   #167
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QuoteOriginally posted by Supernaut Quote
What happened to the rumor that said that people had seen K20D Super ads somewhere? Does someone have more input here? Is it maybe a more "silent" launch after photokina so that the K-m gets all the light?
Maybe it was mistake or maybe we can see such camera close to winter....
09-24-2008, 07:04 AM   #168
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@ ogl, I apologize for the rather rude response back there.

We all want to see new exciting things from pentax that are going to put the photographic world on its butt, unfortunately we don't always get what we want. I for one think that the K-m is a step in the right direction and I do believe that we will get to point where we get to see the camera bodies and lenses that we want.

When things come out that don't quite meet our expectations its natural to be a little disappointed, but constant complaining isn't going to get us what we want. It's obvious that some of the members here have atleast a little sway with pentax, so maybe we should think of ourselves as shepherds or cowboys trying to gently prod a stubborn ox or cow in the right direction

Haha, it may be frustrating at times, but if you are patient enough eventually the animal will get the hint and start going where you want it to.
09-24-2008, 07:20 AM   #169
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Whining about the same things over and over again, all from one poster, gets tiresome, boring, and kills all discussion in a thread.

You like Pentax lenses, but you don't have a full-frame body (well, a digital one) for them. Make a choice, then. Stick with slow and boring Pentax or go with the heavyweights (who also churn out nice cameras and are more predictable in product upgrades).

Personally, the dual-system approach might be for you, since you have money to spend, anyway.

Hoya did what they did to keep the Pentax division floating. So it didn't include a camera for your needs. Well, that's how it is here. You knew the drill, you've been floating doom and gloom posts for the past couple of weeks anyway. Why you choose to pain yourself (well, it seems that way from the tone of most of your posts) is a mystery. Go dual-systems and be happy. Hoya will do what they see is best for the short- and long-term viability of Pentax. Who knows? It might include your hoped-for FF DSLR.

Now if having an FF DSLR *now* is a life-or-death thing for you, I suggest you pick from one of those already available.

09-24-2008, 08:47 AM   #170
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With all of the flaming of the people that complain about Pentax not having a high end apsC camera or even talk of a FF camera I think it would be interesting to see how many people have quietly left Pentax for another brand. Km camera may attract some new people to the Pentax line, but will it be like the old K1000 of film days ie, lots of people learned photography on a K1000 but as their skill developed they left the system because Pentax had no high end up grade. For me a dual system seems to be OK for now, but I sure wish I could use my DA* lenses on a K1D type camera.
09-24-2008, 09:01 AM   #171
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QuoteOriginally posted by kent vinyard Quote
With all of the flaming of the people that complain about Pentax not having a high end apsC camera or even talk of a FF camera I think it would be interesting to see how many people have quietly left Pentax for another brand. Km camera may attract some new people to the Pentax line, but will it be like the old K1000 of film days ie, lots of people learned photography on a K1000 but as their skill developed they left the system because Pentax had no high end up grade. For me a dual system seems to be OK for now, but I sure wish I could use my DA* lenses on a K1D type camera.
I think you hit the nail on the head.

Also, if Pentax were to fold up the tent today, would your current camera take any worse photos.
09-24-2008, 10:59 AM   #172
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QuoteOriginally posted by kent vinyard Quote
With all of the flaming of the people that complain about Pentax not having a high end apsC camera or even talk of a FF camera I think it would be interesting to see how many people have quietly left Pentax for another brand. Km camera may attract some new people to the Pentax line, but will it be like the old K1000 of film days ie, lots of people learned photography on a K1000 but as their skill developed they left the system because Pentax had no high end up grade.
How many people on earth can use the K20D to the maximum of it's abilities? I know I sure can't. It has more than enough resolution for 99% of users and noise levels through ISO 800 are fine. It sounds like the only people not happy with Pentax are would be sports shooters. If you like to shoot sports or action shots I have to ask what you're doing with Pentax in the first place; that is Canikon territory.

Now if you're a landscape, street shooter, or portrait photographer then if the K20D can't capture your vision then I don't know what to tell you. You're obviously doing something wrong.

My gripe with Pentax is not that they don't have a high enough quality body, it's that they aren't really doing anything unique. Outside of shooting in the rain there is nothing you can do with a K20D that can't be done with a D90/50D. And that goes for all 3 cameras in Pentax's current line up. I've said I wish they'd make a sub $2000 FF body to give those wanting FF without deep pockets an opportunity to get their dream camera. I personally want a high quality pocket camera. That is another market that I think they should have exploited now before everyone else starts doing it next year. Uniqueness is going to be the only thing to help Pentax gain market share.
09-24-2008, 11:06 AM   #173
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You forgot...

QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
Outside of shooting in the rain there is nothing you can do with a K20D that can't be done with a D90/50D.
...save money. On the body for one, and on the lenses because you don't need IS or VR. I'd like to see a high-end APS-C, like a D300 or something. But I'm happy with my K10D.

09-24-2008, 11:21 AM   #174
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QuoteOriginally posted by gnaztee Quote
...save money. On the body for one, and on the lenses because you don't need IS or VR. I'd like to see a high-end APS-C, like a D300 or something. But I'm happy with my K10D.
I've got a running spread sheet that I use to keep track of prices (yeah, I have too much time on my hands), and it is true you can save a little with a Pentax system, but the margin isn't big enough to keep the average customer from buying Canikon instead of the "inferior" brand (got to love marketing).

Right now you can get the Nikon D90 kit with the 18-105mm with SR & SDM built in for $1300. That is a raging good bargain. Pentax doesn't even make a lens similar to that (with a silent motor, something most people want). About the closest thing you can do is get the K20D + 17-70mm. Right now in the US that will run you $980 for the body and another $500 for the lens. I know weather sealing is nice, and the 17-70mm is probably a slightly better lens, but if I were buying an enthusiast SLR today there is no way I would go the Pentax route over that D90 package...and I have a soft spot for Pentax. Imagine trying to sell someone that knows nothing but C&N on the K20D. I recently tried with a friend. After listening to my sales pitch he still bought a Canon 40D.
09-24-2008, 11:44 AM   #175
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
My gripe with Pentax is not that they don't have a high enough quality body, it's that they aren't really doing anything unique. Outside of shooting in the rain there is nothing you can do with a K20D that can't be done with a D90/50D.
You are kidding me. You don't think the limited lenses are unique enough? I now travel with my pancakes... image stabilized, no less.
And I have a stabilized 50mm f/1.4 too
Yeah, match that with D90/50D....
09-24-2008, 11:50 AM   #176
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My sister in law works at a camera store and knows my love for Pentax. And she knew I had one already... with lenses.

She still tried to sell me a Canon.
09-24-2008, 12:01 PM   #177
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QuoteOriginally posted by cromagnonrand Quote
My sister in law works at a camera store and knows my love for Pentax. And she knew I had one already... with lenses.

She still tried to sell me a Canon.
I just went to a J&R, a big store in NYC to look at old Canon 5D, and overheard conversation between the salesman and customer.
The salesman was selling Nikon D60 with all around VR zoom lens to an older guy and when the customer asked about camera with in body SR, he told him
"Well Pentax, Sony and Oly have in body SR, but there systems are NOT working compared to Nikon VR"

I fully understand his intentions, but I wonder what Pentax have to do to deal with this, or is the VR really works better? I never had system with VR, so I have no Idea.
09-24-2008, 12:18 PM   #178
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
You are kidding me. You don't think the limited lenses are unique enough? I now travel with my pancakes... image stabilized, no less.
And I have a stabilized 50mm f/1.4 too
Yeah, match that with D90/50D....
I love the Pancake lenses as much as the next guy, but mount them on a K20D size body and it's far from a small camera. Plus, the Nikon primes under 85mm aren't exactly large lenses. I'll give you in-body stabilization, that's why I went with Pentax after all, but lets face facts here; most users don't use primes. They want a few good zooms, and now Nikon has affordable stabilized zooms for them to choose from.

But as far as the pancakes being unique...they were at one point, but Panasonic & Olympus are about to blow that up, and they will be paired with camera bodies small enough to make a pancake lens make sense.
09-24-2008, 12:27 PM   #179
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
But as far as the pancakes being unique...they were at one point, but Panasonic & Olympus are about to blow that up, and they will be paired with camera bodies small enough to make a pancake lens make sense.
Maybe, maybe not. Until we have products on the shelf, it's still vaporware. And Pentax's pancake line-up is still unique. Afterall, we are talking about DSLR; as for hybrids, I believe we will see entries from all major manufacturers, so Panasonic/Olympus won't be unique either. Anyways, taking pictures with optical viewfinder vs LCD are quite different experience, so they cannot be compared. But as I mentioned in another post, hybrid will eventually take over the entry level market.

Last edited by nosnoop; 09-24-2008 at 12:33 PM.
09-24-2008, 12:39 PM   #180
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I know what you are saying Art, but with the introduction of the K-m/K2000, the size of the pancakes becomes relevant again. Unlike Oly and Panny, Pentax already have a superb line of pancakes. I would love to see someone holding the K-m w/ a DA40/2.8. The size should surprise many. The K-m should beat the micro4/3 with the larger APS-C sensor and DS2 with DA Limit selection.

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