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09-24-2008, 07:05 PM   #196
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QuoteOriginally posted by kunik Quote
They still produce and sell the 300mm F2.8 and the 600mm F4. I suggest you buy one if you are interested in big glass. If people were actually buying this stuff maybe they would produce more of it
They are listed in the official Pentax catalog, but I doubt that you can actually buy them at the present time. Certainly no big retailer in the U.S. has them in stock. They are supposed to be special order from the factory in Japan, but we have read that this factory is closing. I remember one fellow on the Forum here that tried for months to buy the 600mm from any Pentax source world-wide and was unsuccessful.

In any event, even if you could buy these lenses, they are old designs with a screw-drive AF. The modern designs from Canon and Nikon focus much faster with in-lens USM/SWM motors, and have IS/VR mechanisms specially designed for tripod use with these lenses for superior sharpness.

The bottom line is that Pentax is not entering the market for professional sports photography and is not producing either bodies or lenses for this market. The few people using Pentax gear and want to use fast super-telephotos must either buy used lenses or go with a Sigma lens.

09-24-2008, 07:23 PM   #197
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QuoteOriginally posted by kunik Quote
They still produce and sell the 300mm F2.8 and the 600mm F4. I suggest you buy one if you are interested in big glass. If people were actually buying this stuff maybe they would produce more of it
Amazing how they "still produce and sell" those lenses, yet they aren't listed at either B&H or Adorama, even for special order. PK lens availability for "big glass" is basically nil, especially if you're looking for zooms.
09-24-2008, 08:11 PM   #198
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QuoteOriginally posted by GaryML Quote
They are listed in the official Pentax catalog, but I doubt that you can actually buy them at the present time. Certainly no big retailer in the U.S. has them in stock. They are supposed to be special order from the factory in Japan, but we have read that this factory is closing. I remember one fellow on the Forum here that tried for months to buy the 600mm from any Pentax source world-wide and was unsuccessful.

In any event, even if you could buy these lenses, they are old designs with a screw-drive AF. The modern designs from Canon and Nikon focus much faster with in-lens USM/SWM motors, and have IS/VR mechanisms specially designed for tripod use with these lenses for superior sharpness.

The bottom line is that Pentax is not entering the market for professional sports photography and is not producing either bodies or lenses for this market. The few people using Pentax gear and want to use fast super-telephotos must either buy used lenses or go with a Sigma lens.

I just bought a new 300 F2.8 last month. I'm very happy with it. It was not hard to come by at all. I had it shipped from Japan and it showed up 4 days later with the full warranty card etc.

Have you used one of these lenses? The reason I ask is that a lot of people will form an opinion without having ever used a piece of equipment. Although they are screw drive AF it is the fasted I have ever owned. Definitely comparable to my 50-135mm in terms of focus speed.








Last edited by cwood; 09-24-2008 at 08:34 PM.
09-24-2008, 08:22 PM   #199
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You can get some big prime glass in PK mount from Sigma (or so they say on their website), which makes damn fine lenses - but you really need a FF body to put it on to make it worth while. Unfortunately, the really desirable big glass from Sigma, the 300-800 F5.6 ZOOM, is not made in PK mount at all, and the primes would of course be special order as well (the 300 F2.8 is the longest of the Sigmas that B&H bothers to list, and even that is "Out of Stock" - what a surprise). Sigma does indicate that they make some of their big prime glass, up to the 800 F5.6, in PK mount, but there's little reason to buy a suitcase full of huge primes to put them on "less than 1/2 frame" bodies, and the availability (more correctly the lack thereof) reflects that.

Pentax's failure to get higher end bodies out, in particular a FF, is just going to continue to narrow the choices of lenses made, and available for, PK mount, which in turn makes it less desirable to go with Pentax, which in turn reduces the customer base, which continues the downward spiral. "Niche" is nothing but a codeword for "not very successful" that makes it sound more clever. With Hoya and Samsung partnering, Pentax is in a position to muscle its way back into the top tier, it's just a question of will. Samsung is supposedly working on the FF sensor, so hopefully it won't be too much longer. As for the need for FF lenses, they could have Sigma OEM a nice system for them for a little payola until they get their own new designs developed.

How does this sound:

12-24 F 4.5-5.6
24-70 F 2.8
70-200 F 2.8
100-300 F4
300-800 F 5.6

Today, all they make of that list of zooms that is actually available in PK mount is the 12-24 and 24-70. The 70-200 is supposedly coming out soon, and I'm sure shortly after the initial stocks get sold it will become another "Out of Stock" wish list item again. It's pretty sad. If I didn't have a nice collection of PK lenses, I wouldn't even consider Pentax, due to the lack of availability of lenses and the lack of a FF body. If Pentax wants to grow, it needs upmarket products, not more entry level stuff. SLR camera systems are all about lenses, especially in the digital age, when bodies quickly become obsolete. If you don't have an extensive array of optics available, you're not going to attract customers, or retain those you do get. All the "entry level" and "consumer level" bottom feeding that Pentax has done is what has been killing what was once a top tier camera maker. If they continue to avoid the high end market, they will continue to be marginalized.

I'm not being critical to abuse Pentax, I WANT them to "live long and prosper." As tired as some may be of hearing from people that want more from Pentax, in particular FF, believe me I'm every bit as tired of hearing the defeatist attitude of "Canon/Nikon have the high end market, so Pentax can't/shouldn't/will fail if" they move into that "sacred territory." They can, they should, and they're more likely to fade away into obscurity if they DON'T.

09-24-2008, 09:04 PM   #200
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QuoteOriginally posted by zntgrg Quote
Don't think so: Put Velvia on a Zenit and you'll beat easily a Nikon F loaded with Kodak GOLD [if the latter permits such a shame]!
Hmm, I'm using Kodak GOLD in both my SuperProgram and LX
09-24-2008, 09:05 PM   #201
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QuoteOriginally posted by kunik Quote
I just bought a new 300 F2.8 last month. I'm very happy with it. It was not hard to come by at all. I had it shipped from Japan and it showed up 4 days later with the full warranty card etc.

Have you used one of these lenses? The reason I ask is that a lot of people will form an opinion without having ever used a piece of equipment. Although they are screw drive AF it is the fasted I have ever owned. Definitely comparable to my 50-135mm in terms of focus speed.
I take it that you bought the 300mm f2.8 from a fellow on eBay rather than from your local Pentax distributor. Perhaps there is still a supply in Japan, or new "old stock" in a warehouse there.

I haven't used an auto-focus, Pentax-brand 300mm lens. I did have a manual-focus one, and I only had myself to blame if focus speed was inadequate.

I did have a Sigma 300mm auto-focus lens with the screw-drive AF, and it simply wasn't fast enough to keep up with action sports. (In my case, kid's soccer where I'm right at the edge of the field, and there are many quick changes of direction.) I also used a DA* 50-135mm on a K10D body. It was better than the Sigma, but still there was no predictive AF. Anyone running right at me was always out of focus. And, of course, 135mm is too short for most outdoor sports.

Right now I use a Nikon D300 with a Nikkor 70-200mm f2.8 VR AF-S, often with the matched Nikon 1.7X converter for a 340mm f/4.8. Focus is nearly instantaneous and always spot-on. It will pick an object and lock onto that object based on the object's shape and color, and predict how the focus will change. I keep it on the 9 point "Dynamic AF" and it is very good on keeping locked on the specific player I want. If you haven't tried it, it is truly an impressive AF system, and light years ahead of the DA* 50-135mm/K10D setup in speed and accuracy.

Of course, this kind of focus system is really only needed for fast action photography. Anything moving parallel to the plane of focus is not a problem, compared to something moving towards or away from the plane.

I'm not criticizing your choice of equipment. My point is that Pentax is not going after the sports photography and their product line reflect that.

Last edited by GaryML; 09-24-2008 at 09:15 PM.
09-24-2008, 09:06 PM   #202
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QuoteOriginally posted by NorthPentax Quote
LOL

Thanks for that comment.

I've had that same thought. Huge hands or very small K-m?
Huge hands, and big face too
09-24-2008, 11:35 PM   #203
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anastigmat:
The advanced pro-sumer market is now dominated by full frame cameras like the Sony A900, Nikon D700 and Canon 5DMKII. Pentax has nothing in this category to compete.
QuoteOriginally posted by 24X36NOW Quote
Pentax's failure to get higher end bodies out, in particular a FF,.....makes it less desirable to go with Pentax, which in turn reduces the customer base, which continues the downward spiral.......If they continue to avoid the high end market, they will continue to be marginalized.
None of us would be surprised by comments made by two of you on FF. But here's the reality check, and it looks like the only thing still "marginalized" is the FF market. I have posted this in a few posts above and I would repeat here in case you missed it.

Nikon D700 weekly sales in Japan has dropped to 0.9% market share in less than two months after launch. And the total combined sales of Nikon D3 + D700 is 1.1% market share in Japan. We'll see how 5DII and A900 fare at the end of this year after the initial demand. FF may be the dream cameras of some users here or dpreview. But the reality is that very few would actually pay the $$$ to buy one; probably even fewer for a Pentax FF. It simply does not make business sense to risk so much money in such a minuscule niche market at this point.

09-24-2008, 11:40 PM   #204
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QuoteOriginally posted by 24X36NOW Quote
...As for the need for FF lenses, they could have Sigma OEM a nice system for them for a little payola until they get their own new designs developed.
I have it from a long time Japanese friend of mine that no major Japanese camera manufacturer will consider to any lens collaboration with Sigma.
09-24-2008, 11:59 PM   #205
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If Sigma would make OEM lenses, that would be reason enough to avoid them more than I already do
09-25-2008, 12:10 AM   #206
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anastigmat Quote
The macro flash looks like one of the old ringflashes Pentax used to sell, updated to P-TTL. Nothing revolutionary like the Nikon i-TTL macro flash introduced years ago. Such a simple update should have been made 2 years ago when Pentax abandoned support for TTL flash.



It looks like Pentax is allergic to lenses 400mm and longer. Pentax used to sell 600mm and 1200mm lenses. Now its longest lens is a 300mm. Very disappointing.



The advanced pro-sumer market is now dominated by full frame cameras like the Sony A900, Nikon D700 and Canon 5DMKII. Pentax has nothing in this category to compete. Looks like Pentax needs some serious catching up to do to even compete in the pro-sumer category. Full frame lenses are easy enough to produce. It is the DA lenses that are taking Pentax all this time to develop. It took Pentax about a year to come up with an entire series of SMC M lenses to replace all the K lenses introduced with the K2, KX and KM. So it should not take much longer than that to come up with a new series of full frame lenses. If they stick with APS-C, then they would need to sell their cameras for less than the Canon 50D, a 6+ fps, 15mp camera with low noise at high ISO settings. Even if Pentax is content at being a niche player, it is not an easy niche to be in.
Of course you're disappointed. Only FF will satiate you.
09-25-2008, 12:18 AM   #207
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Pentax might make a FF camera when the sucessors (I don't know of which generation) of Canon 50D, Nikon D300, Sony A700, will be also FF, cameras.
A number of 4-5 lenses might not be too difficult to lauch in the same time - like... let's say... 24-70 f:2.8, 70-200 f:2.8, 14-24 f:4, 28-80 f:3.5-5.6, 80-300 f:4-5.6 - the last two as kit lens (especially if Pentax will have success with the little one) .
We'll see. Until than my K100D can take great photos. But that's depends only on me
09-25-2008, 01:00 AM   #208
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
I have it from a long time Japanese friend of mine that no major Japanese camera manufacturer will consider to any lens collaboration with Sigma.
Of course for a least one good reasons, Sigma does never pay any license to OEM tech (mounts, flash system) and do reverse engineer them which:
  1. Explain why compatibility of Sigma lenses is lower than other lenses
  2. Explain why an OEM will not buy design or outsource production to a manufacture who does not "play nice" by not paying license.

Even Tokina, Tamron and Cosina do pay licenses AFAIK.
09-25-2008, 01:59 AM   #209
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QuoteOriginally posted by 24X36NOW Quote
All the "entry level" and "consumer level" bottom feeding that Pentax has done is what has been killing what was once a top tier camera maker. If they continue to avoid the high end market, they will continue to be marginalized.

I'm not being critical to abuse Pentax, I WANT them to "live long and prosper." As tired as some may be of hearing from people that want more from Pentax, in particular FF, believe me I'm every bit as tired of hearing the defeatist attitude of "Canon/Nikon have the high end market, so Pentax can't/shouldn't/will fail if" they move into that "sacred territory." They can, they should, and they're more likely to fade away into obscurity if they DON'T.
Why not just sell your Pentax gear and buy CaNikon?

They make more money selling entry level and consumer level cameras, that's why the make them. They will not be able to compete with CaNikon in the high-end market. Wait and see how Sony's A900 will do.
I rather want to see Pentax as a strong contender in the consumer market than fail in the pro-sumer market.
You make money by selling 500dollar camera's to 2 million people, not by selling 3000dollar camera's to 5000 gadget freaks.

Pentax haven't been the "it" brand for decade's, they still haven't faded into obscurity.
If they want to please the old pro market they had, they can start by giving the 645 and 6X7 owners a digital back and then release a digital 645 or 6X7 camera.


The only way Pentax would be a household name is to make affordable cameras with -Good built quality.
-Good jpeg quality straight out of the camera (better than C. 400/450D and N. D40/60/90)
-Easy to understand menu's and layout.
-Functions like live view and soon they must implement a video function. I don't like either of those function, but people want it.
-And allway's be one of the best camera's in every consumer test's.
09-25-2008, 02:56 AM   #210
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Im so sick of the pentax bashing on this site.
Im confirming the impressions of **** countrymen being moaners and complainers.
If you want out, take out, the rest of us are happy.
Pentax have always been slower and thorough, and yet the happy crowd among us have always loved and stuck to it, and there are reasons. They don't WANT to be capitalist mp chasing greedboys, I think Pentax still cares for photography more than money and snob elitist attitudes (which is more that I can say for some other 2 major brands).
Besides, I am 150% certain you will see large format cameras sooner than you think, Samsung and Hoya just climbed into the ring a bit late for photokina

I am amazed at how the same moaning sobs who keep repeating themselves over some silly photography expo, keep posting here. Buy into another system and do us a favour.

Sit back, enjoy photography, stop relying so much on having the largest and best hardware and if that fails you, have a nice life.

Thanks
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