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09-22-2008, 06:47 PM   #91
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I agree, without a foundation of entry level users, Pentax will not have a market for pro equipment as they move forward in skill and interest.

09-22-2008, 07:05 PM   #92
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well, I'm not sure if this is even on topic but, today is photokina right? All day i've see nothing but NIkon ads on the tely, D90/d700 commercials. No pentax commercials and canon doesn't really need to advertise...
09-22-2008, 07:08 PM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
If this everything then I'm a bit disappointed. They haven't announced anything that I really need.
I wasn't aware Photokina was an even put together to please JUST you...
09-22-2008, 09:01 PM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by dave sz Quote
I wasn't aware Photokina was an even put together to please JUST you...
It's not, but the topic of this thread is if we, Pentax users, are disappointed or pleased. I happen to be the former, others will be the latter. Why did you chose to get in a tizzy over my opinion?

Here, let me try this. WOW! The KM/K2000 is the most amazing knock off of a Nikon D60 I have ever seen. I can really see this camera breaking through for Pentax. It's just so different then the D40/D60/A200/A350/Xti/Xsi. I'm sure the average beginner won't mind not being able to test it out in person virtually anywhere and buy it sight unseen instead of buying one of those competing products that can easily be picked up at any local electronics store.

Sorry if I didn't drink enough kool aid, but I get excited over innovation, not catch up.

09-22-2008, 09:08 PM   #95
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Catch up has not yet done, even!

QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
Sorry if I didn't drink enough kool aid, but I get excited over innovation, not catch up.
Agreed totally.

The caught up has not achieved, even.

The K-m body alone without batteries is just heavier than a D60 with rechargeable lithium and SD card!

The functionality seems to be the same BUT the AE system particularly is by no means can match that of the D60. The AF system is announced to be STILL the lame SAFOX VIII! ..??

The use of AA batteries are yet stupid. Four NiMH AAs are heavy and bulky! And in cold weather, they work poorly. Why the users need to use disposable but not freely with rechargeable and more environment friendly??

Not even to mention there is nothing stronger in the Pentax land. If in Photokina they are unable to introduce more important things. WHEN will they do it???
09-22-2008, 09:10 PM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by wlachan Quote
That will depend. If the environment was so dark it need that freaking AF assist and I had no alternative, I already know that the picture will come out ugly with harsh flash look and dark unknown background. I would not even bother to take the shot because it will be trashed anyway.
Oh no, not necessary at all. If you are indoors, that's what flash is for! Put your flash in P-TTL wireless mode, strategically place one or more of them around the room, direct them for a bounce, use your pop up flash for AF assist and P-TTL wireless flash control, and you can get very good result. Sure, pop-up AF assist can be annoying, but I find them having a longer assist range than infrared spot beam or LED AF assist.
09-22-2008, 09:13 PM   #97
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I don't agree with all that Rice. I like AA batteries for example. I think the K-M is a fine little camera to get people started, but as I've said many times without better marketing and presence in the big box stores I simply don't understand how they are supposed to compete in the entry level market. Those people need to be told what to buy...they don't go out of their way looking.

Edit: Also Rice, the D60 AF is the worst I've ever used on an SLR. I have no doubt the KM will easily best it.

But to get back on topic...I have no desire to bash Pentax or the K-M, I personally was just hoping for something more.
09-22-2008, 10:02 PM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
The K-m body alone without batteries is just heavier than a D60 with rechargeable lithium and SD card!
What is the weight of the D60 with a AF-S and VR lens?

You can't compare camera body weight alone, its not exactly useful without a lens. K-m has motor and SR in-body.

09-22-2008, 10:11 PM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
It's not, but the topic of this thread is if we, Pentax users, are disappointed or pleased. I happen to be the former, others will be the latter.
I'm in the same boat. Its not like I'm going to jump ship to Nikon but my wish list right now (not that I could afford it all at once anyway...) consists of:
- 6fps body for sports (i'm not picky... I don't need 10fps)
- 500mm lens for sports and wildlife
- 30mm SDM lens for weddings and events
- FF body for weddings and events

- Last weekend I missed an important shot because I did not have high enough FPS - I was burst shooting and unfortunately the best shot has a hand "almost" obstructing the face. A fraction of a second sooner or later would have been perfect.
- Three days earlier I had to use my 16-50 (f2.8) on a job that would have been much more suited to a 30mm f1.5. I know the 31mm is on the market but I've been holding out for SDM. The mechanical noise of the screw drive AF is occasionally embarrassing on the job.
- in two weeks I'm shooting an indoor event that I will probably want to shoot at ISO 800 and to be honest a Canon 5D or a Nikon D700 would be more appropriate.

So while I am getting by with my current gear and it continues to take very nice pictures, I do look forward to these advancements in the near future.
09-22-2008, 10:20 PM   #100
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I just wish the people who keep whining and saying they will jump ship would just do it already. I'm getting sick and tired of hearing it all the time.

My current camera is fantastic for me (K20D) as was the *istDS I upgraded from.

Pentax needed a 3rd level of camera in the market and they have wisely chosen the entry level.

FFS PEOPLE!!! Entry level!!! Ricehigh!!! Entry Level!!! So don't start moaning and groaning about its focus (which will work fine regardless of the poop you spurt out about it) or its weight (big deal, it's still an SLR) or its battery use (I personally happen to like using AA's and I know plenty of people who will think this is great too)

</end of rant>
09-22-2008, 10:24 PM   #101
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I feel that Hoya offers old developments of Pentax for this Photokina.
The new roadmap means:

Negative
1. There are no anything new at all - Pentax doesn't make new developments of lenses.
Ring-flash, teleconverter, 60-250, 55 and 15 lim are from Pentax time.
Hoya closed factories and dismiss the engineers and workers.
Prices for DA*55 and DA*60-250 are fantastic. 800 USD for 55 mm lens? 1500 USD for such zoom. It's funny. We are not all rain-shooters.
It means that Hoya has plans to sell photo division to another company.

Positive
2. There are the development of new camera and new lenses (FF or hybrid or MF),
that's why Hoya doesn't announce new lenses or camera not to cut DA lenses sales.


But this Photokina announcement smells like naphthalene...


As for me I can see the future way of Pentax if
they offer now:
1. New AF system
2. Give us information about new developments of camera and new lenses.
3. Or inform us that it's no any sense to wait FF or MF digital camera from Pentax at all.
4. To explain cooperation plans with Samsung.

To where we go?

K-m is good camera, but Pentax launch it after 1000D/D40/D40x/D60/E-410/E-420...

And micro 4/3 and DP2 are coming...
09-22-2008, 10:39 PM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Agreed totally.

The caught up has not achieved, even.

The K-m body alone without batteries is just heavier than a D60 with rechargeable lithium and SD card!

The functionality seems to be the same BUT the AE system particularly is by no means can match that of the D60. The AF system is announced to be STILL the lame SAFOX VIII! ..??

The use of AA batteries are yet stupid. Four NiMH AAs are heavy and bulky! And in cold weather, they work poorly. Why the users need to use disposable but not freely with rechargeable and more environment friendly??

Not even to mention there is nothing stronger in the Pentax land. If in Photokina they are unable to introduce more important things. WHEN will they do it???
Rice, I like AA.
The AF are improved. Pentax never post such thigs before -
this AF system also offers improved autofocusing speed under poor-lighting conditions, in which conventional AF systems take longer to focus on the subject.


The problems are not in insignificant things. How can't you understand it?
You explore only negative things about Pentax. It's way to nowhere. Some kind of dipsosis to find only bad and see only bad things in pentax products.
Canon's products, to say honest, are far from ideal too. With a lot of minuses.
But, Canon knows the WAY. Nikon too. Even Olympus. Sony.

I don't feel that Pentax knows...

The problem is that we don't understand TO WHERE PENTAX GOES.
09-22-2008, 10:44 PM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
It means that Hoya has plans to sell photo division to another company.
QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Rice, <snip> You explore only negative things about Pentax. It's way to nowhere. Some kind of dipsosis to find only bad and see only bad things in pentax products.
Pot, meet Kettle. Kettle, meet Pot.
09-22-2008, 10:44 PM   #104
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Yes, disappointed.

QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Positive
2. There are the development of new camera and new lenses (FF or hybrid or MF),
that's why Hoya doesn't announce new lenses or camera not to cut DA lenses sales.
Or, if they just have nothing under development?

QuoteQuote:
As for me I can see the future way of Pentax if
they offer now:
1. New AF system
2. Give us information about new developments of camera and new lenses.
3. Or inform us that it's no any sense to wait FF or MF digital camera from Pentax at all.
Yes, yes and yes.

QuoteQuote:
4. To explain cooperation plans with Samsung.
Samsung will not be with them anymore, they will go alone to build the Micro 4-3 competitior model.

QuoteQuote:
K-m is good camera, but Pentax launch it after 1000D/D40/D40x/D60/E-410/E-420...

And micro 4/3 and DP2 are coming...
Yes, its too late now. When Pentax will start innovation of their own for the first time nowadays?
09-22-2008, 10:45 PM   #105
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Anyone knows about..

QuoteOriginally posted by Maxington Quote
What is the weight of the D60 with a AF-S and VR lens?

You can't compare camera body weight alone, its not exactly useful without a lens. K-m has motor and SR in-body.
Do you know about the weights of the new L lenses? Anyone knows??
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