Wild rumour: Samsung to provide APS-C sensors to Ricoh Imaging (and Fujifilm)

Mistral75 · 09-16-2018, 04:32 AM - **1 Like**

From the Korean forum clién.net (the same member posted both messages):

Quote:

Samsung are currently negotiating with a Japanese company for the supply of a Samsung sensor. It's the sensor that was supposed to be used by the successor to NX2 until Samsung stopped the NX line.

It's an APS-C sensor with a 1.5 crop ratio. Specifications include 4K video 10bit 120fps, H.264 and H.265 codecs.

It can be coupled with a custom image signal processor based on Exynos 9810.

Source: 찌라시)삼성 nx1 후속작에 탑재하려던 센서 판매예정? : 클리앙 (7 February 2018)

Quote:

Fuji will get the APS-C sensor that was developed for the Samsung NX2, which never came out due to the merger of divisions.

Fuji has received working samples. The technology developed in cooperation with Fuji is included in this sensor. (Fuji and Samsung recently collaborated on the development of the Isocell Plus technology for smartphone sensors.)

The number of effective pixels of this APS-C sensor is 28.2 million. You can shoot up to 6K videos. It supports 10bit 120 frames. H.265 codec is supported.

In the case of Pentax, the package includes the image signal processor. Fuji will only get the sensor.

It is said that the planned delivery price will be 70% of that of the equivalent Sony sensor.

Source: 찌라시)삼성 APS-C 센서 후지와 펜탁스에게 납품 예정? : 클리앙 (12 September 2018)

So, to make a long story short, this is a wild, unconfirmed rumour according to which Ricoh Imaging could source from Samsung an APS-C sensor with impressive video capabilities packaged with a custom image signal processor based on Samsung Exynos 9810 .

Kunzite · 09-16-2018, 04:44 AM

I'm taking this with a grain of salt, but if true...
I'd be looking forward to the new processor; as the current PRIME is too limiting.
However, such a platform change is not trivial. If true, I hope they were working on it for a while.

zapp · 09-16-2018, 04:47 AM

Pentax cannot compete against Sony as long as they use Sony sensors. Nikon had to dump Sony to go mirrorless for instance. If it is for the good, go for it.

ogl · 09-16-2018, 05:16 AM

It something like this Samsung FF sensor's rumors - PentaxForums.com

)))

**Belnan** · 09-16-2018, 05:17 AM

Of course we can't know what happens behind closed doors but it appears that Sony is very protective of its top of the line sensors. Perhaps this will be what it takes for Pentax to gain an edge. From my memory the nx1 sensor was pretty cracking.

ogl · 09-16-2018, 05:21 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Mistral75

From the Korean forum clién.net (the same member posted both messages):

So, to make a long story short, this is a wild, unconfirmed rumour according to which Ricoh Imaging could source from Samsung an APS-C sensor with impressive video capabilities packaged with a custom image signal processor based on Samsung Exynos 9810 .

Samsung NX2 - is it real? - PentaxForums.com

here is specs of NX-2 sensor (rumors of course)

30.1 MP sensor (6720*4480)

4K 120fps h.265
– Full sensor (6720*4480) @ 30fps
– 5376*3024 @ 60fps
– 3840*2160 @ 120fps
– 2688*1512 @ 240fps
– 1920*1080 @ 480fps

15fps/30fps with electronic shutter.

**UncleVanya** · 09-16-2018, 05:23 AM - **3 Likes**

A new processor would mean all be coding, that would be a huge effort and might explain the long delay on the k-3ii replacement. It is an interesting rumor.

**clickclick** · 09-16-2018, 05:59 AM

Originally posted by UncleVanya

that would be a huge effort and might explain the long delay on the k-3ii replacement

This is what is rolling through my mind too. Fingers crossed for good things coming our way.

Mistral75 · 09-16-2018, 06:06 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Kunzite

I'm taking this with a grain of salt (...).

So do I but I grant some credibility to this rumour (otherwise I wouldn't have reported on it). Why? Because the guy posted two messages within a time interval of seven months, the second being both:

more specific (a Japanese company --> Fujifilm and Ricoh Imaging)
and somewhat different (one prospect --> two; 4K --> 6K).

This is coherent with somebody getting intel over time (the confidences of an acquaintance for instance).

People who make things up usually put everything in a single report or in a succession of messages over a short period of time so as to impress and convince with details.

Anyway, even if the Korean guy tells us a true story, there is a long way to go. According to his statements, Fujifilm seem to be ahead of Ricoh Imaging (they have received samples, for instance) and yet, the recently announced Fujifilm X-T3 includes another sensor (this one a brand new too with its 26MP). Indeed, as you point out:

Originally posted by Kunzite

(...) such a platform change is not trivial. (...)

Speaking of which, your remark:

Originally posted by Kunzite

(...)
I'd be looking forward to the new processor; as the current PRIME is too limiting.
(...)

made me think a bit further. What follows is a wild speculation of mine but anyway, here it is.

What if Ricoh Imaging had considered that they were running on empty with their current Sony + Socionext platform? That such platform was OK for a few more generations of mid-range APS-C cameras with incremental progresses between generations but not appropriate for an APS-C flagship any more?

If it were the case, the chronology of the Korean messages would shed new light on the statements made by Takashi Arai at CP+ in early March.

Quote:

For the flagship APS-C model, we have just started to develop that. It’ll be the successor of the K-3 II and will be an evolution of the K-3 series.

Source: Ricoh interview: "The development of the K-series is our first priority": Digital Photography Review

Quote:

Given that the Pentax K-3 (APS-C flagship) line was launched over 4 years ago, we also asked about plans for a successor to the K-3 II. Ricoh confirmed that such a model is now being developed, and that the KP is in fact not going to be positioned as the most advanced APS-C model.

Source: CP+ 2018: Insights Into the Future of Pentax - CP+ 2018 | PentaxForums.com

Ricoh Imaging would have needed first to negotiate with another supplier than Socionext, then to test and qualify their solution before entering into any serious development phase concerning the successor to K-3 II, which would indeed be 'an evolution of the K-3 series', not a K-3 III.

automorphism · 09-16-2018, 06:46 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by zapp

Pentax cannot compete against Sony as long as they use Sony sensors. Nikon had to dump Sony to go mirrorless for instance. If it is for the good, go for it.

Just curious, do you have a source for the Nikon's Z6/Z7's sensor? I ask because initially it was thought that the D850's sensor was not a Sony but it turned out it was a Sony, but with design input by Nikon.

By the way, not really sure the first statement is true either. Multiple camera companies can compete because they do so with different feature sets. If all they were competing on was the sensor, you would be right. The reason why people still buy Pentax over a Sony is because of the different set of features - for example, weather sealing on all bodies. Some people prefer to have an "entry level" camera with weather sealing, rather than pay a higher price for a less rugged camera with other features.

Kunzite · 09-16-2018, 07:01 AM - **2 Likes**

True, it doesn't resemble the usual "Samsung NX revival" wet dreaming.
I want to believe this rumor because it has many good implications; both technical (as PRIME is becoming a serious limitation) and strategic. Indeed, Ricoh Imaging investing into a new hardware platform shows serious commitment. You don't do that and the D FA* primes without Ricoh's backing.

My problem with this is that I don't want to raise my hopes up.

mee · 09-16-2018, 07:41 AM - **2 Likes**

That would be wonderful. A top-tier crop body when most other brands are fighting each other in the full frame circuit.

IF that happens and IF the DA* zooms get a refresh (along with the DA primes that still operate on screwdrive), it could be a really modern system that might be attractive to a lot of folks.

x4rd · 09-16-2018, 08:17 AM

This is really interesting news! Combine it with decent AF-C in video and You have very capable camera. It is something to be worth waiting for.

swanlefitte · 09-16-2018, 09:03 AM

I have been thinking a new k3+ needs a new sensor and there wasn't one. At least no one chimed in when I asked.
This story also comes out soon before photokina.
These points lend credence to the rumor in my opinion.
Maybe there will be an announcement about a future k3+.

**Larrymc** · 09-16-2018, 09:24 AM

Originally posted by swanlefitte

I have been thinking a new k3+ needs a new sensor and there wasn't one. At least no one chimed in when I asked.
This story also comes out soon before photokina.
These points lend credence to the rumor in my opinion.
Maybe there will be an announcement about a future k3+.

Lets hope so! Just an announcement would cause quite a stir!!

09-16-2018, 04:32 AM - 1 Like	#1
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Wild rumour: Samsung to provide APS-C sensors to Ricoh Imaging (and Fujifilm) From the Korean forum clién.net (the same member posted both messages): Quote: Samsung are currently negotiating with a Japanese company for the supply of a Samsung sensor. It's the sensor that was supposed to be used by the successor to NX2 until Samsung stopped the NX line. It's an APS-C sensor with a 1.5 crop ratio. Specifications include 4K video 10bit 120fps, H.264 and H.265 codecs. It can be coupled with a custom image signal processor based on Exynos 9810. Source: 찌라시)삼성 nx1 후속작에 탑재하려던 센서 판매예정? : 클리앙 (7 February 2018) Quote: Fuji will get the APS-C sensor that was developed for the Samsung NX2, which never came out due to the merger of divisions. Fuji has received working samples. The technology developed in cooperation with Fuji is included in this sensor. (Fuji and Samsung recently collaborated on the development of the Isocell Plus technology for smartphone sensors.) The number of effective pixels of this APS-C sensor is 28.2 million. You can shoot up to 6K videos. It supports 10bit 120 frames. H.265 codec is supported. In the case of Pentax, the package includes the image signal processor. Fuji will only get the sensor. It is said that the planned delivery price will be 70% of that of the equivalent Sony sensor. Source: 찌라시)삼성 APS-C 센서 후지와 펜탁스에게 납품 예정? : 클리앙 (12 September 2018) So, to make a long story short, this is a wild, unconfirmed rumour according to which Ricoh Imaging could source from Samsung an APS-C sensor with impressive video capabilities packaged with a custom image signal processor based on Samsung Exynos 9810 .

09-16-2018, 06:06 AM - 1 Like	#9
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527 Original Poster	Originally posted by Kunzite I'm taking this with a grain of salt (...). So do I but I grant some credibility to this rumour (otherwise I wouldn't have reported on it). Why? Because the guy posted two messages within a time interval of seven months, the second being both: more specific (a Japanese company --> Fujifilm and Ricoh Imaging) and somewhat different (one prospect --> two; 4K --> 6K). This is coherent with somebody getting intel over time (the confidences of an acquaintance for instance). People who make things up usually put everything in a single report or in a succession of messages over a short period of time so as to impress and convince with details. Anyway, even if the Korean guy tells us a true story, there is a long way to go. According to his statements, Fujifilm seem to be ahead of Ricoh Imaging (they have received samples, for instance) and yet, the recently announced Fujifilm X-T3 includes another sensor (this one a brand new too with its 26MP). Indeed, as you point out: Originally posted by Kunzite (...) such a platform change is not trivial. (...) Speaking of which, your remark: Originally posted by Kunzite (...) I'd be looking forward to the new processor; as the current PRIME is too limiting. (...) made me think a bit further. What follows is a wild speculation of mine but anyway, here it is. What if Ricoh Imaging had considered that they were running on empty with their current Sony + Socionext platform? That such platform was OK for a few more generations of mid-range APS-C cameras with incremental progresses between generations but not appropriate for an APS-C flagship any more? If it were the case, the chronology of the Korean messages would shed new light on the statements made by Takashi Arai at CP+ in early March. Quote: For the flagship APS-C model, we have just started to develop that. It’ll be the successor of the K-3 II and will be an evolution of the K-3 series. Source: Ricoh interview: "The development of the K-series is our first priority": Digital Photography Review Quote: Given that the Pentax K-3 (APS-C flagship) line was launched over 4 years ago, we also asked about plans for a successor to the K-3 II. Ricoh confirmed that such a model is now being developed, and that the KP is in fact not going to be positioned as the most advanced APS-C model. Source: CP+ 2018: Insights Into the Future of Pentax - CP+ 2018 \| PentaxForums.com Ricoh Imaging would have needed first to negotiate with another supplier than Socionext, then to test and qualify their solution before entering into any serious development phase concerning the successor to K-3 II, which would indeed be 'an evolution of the K-3 series', not a K-3 III.

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09-16-2018, 04:44 AM	#2
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	I'm taking this with a grain of salt, but if true... I'd be looking forward to the new processor; as the current PRIME is too limiting. However, such a platform change is not trivial. If true, I hope they were working on it for a while.

09-16-2018, 04:47 AM	#3
zapp Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,385	Pentax cannot compete against Sony as long as they use Sony sensors. Nikon had to dump Sony to go mirrorless for instance. If it is for the good, go for it.

09-16-2018, 05:16 AM	#4
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	It something like this Samsung FF sensor's rumors - PentaxForums.com )))

09-16-2018, 05:17 AM	#5
Belnan Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Nova Scotia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,090	Of course we can't know what happens behind closed doors but it appears that Sony is very protective of its top of the line sensors. Perhaps this will be what it takes for Pentax to gain an edge. From my memory the nx1 sensor was pretty cracking.

09-16-2018, 05:21 AM - 1 Like	#6
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by Mistral75 From the Korean forum clién.net (the same member posted both messages): So, to make a long story short, this is a wild, unconfirmed rumour according to which Ricoh Imaging could source from Samsung an APS-C sensor with impressive video capabilities packaged with a custom image signal processor based on Samsung Exynos 9810 . Samsung NX2 - is it real? - PentaxForums.com here is specs of NX-2 sensor (rumors of course) 30.1 MP sensor (67204480) 4K 120fps h.265 – Full sensor (67204480) @ 30fps – 53763024 @ 60fps – 38402160 @ 120fps – 26881512 @ 240fps – 19201080 @ 480fps 15fps/30fps with electronic shutter.

09-16-2018, 05:23 AM - 3 Likes	#7
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,401	A new processor would mean all be coding, that would be a huge effort and might explain the long delay on the k-3ii replacement. It is an interesting rumor.

09-16-2018, 05:59 AM	#8
clickclick Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: May 2016 Location: East Coast Posts: 2,903	Originally posted by UncleVanya that would be a huge effort and might explain the long delay on the k-3ii replacement This is what is rolling through my mind too. Fingers crossed for good things coming our way.

09-16-2018, 06:46 AM - 1 Like	#10
automorphism Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Ontario, Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 791	Originally posted by zapp Pentax cannot compete against Sony as long as they use Sony sensors. Nikon had to dump Sony to go mirrorless for instance. If it is for the good, go for it. Just curious, do you have a source for the Nikon's Z6/Z7's sensor? I ask because initially it was thought that the D850's sensor was not a Sony but it turned out it was a Sony, but with design input by Nikon. By the way, not really sure the first statement is true either. Multiple camera companies can compete because they do so with different feature sets. If all they were competing on was the sensor, you would be right. The reason why people still buy Pentax over a Sony is because of the different set of features - for example, weather sealing on all bodies. Some people prefer to have an "entry level" camera with weather sealing, rather than pay a higher price for a less rugged camera with other features.

09-16-2018, 07:01 AM - 2 Likes	#11
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	True, it doesn't resemble the usual "Samsung NX revival" wet dreaming. I want to believe this rumor because it has many good implications; both technical (as PRIME is becoming a serious limitation) and strategic. Indeed, Ricoh Imaging investing into a new hardware platform shows serious commitment. You don't do that and the D FA* primes without Ricoh's backing. My problem with this is that I don't want to raise my hopes up.

09-16-2018, 07:41 AM - 2 Likes	#12
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	That would be wonderful. A top-tier crop body when most other brands are fighting each other in the full frame circuit. IF that happens and IF the DA* zooms get a refresh (along with the DA primes that still operate on screwdrive), it could be a really modern system that might be attractive to a lot of folks.

09-16-2018, 08:17 AM	#13
x4rd Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 241	This is really interesting news! Combine it with decent AF-C in video and You have very capable camera. It is something to be worth waiting for.

09-16-2018, 09:03 AM	#14
swanlefitte Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Location: Minneapolis Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,068	I have been thinking a new k3+ needs a new sensor and there wasn't one. At least no one chimed in when I asked. This story also comes out soon before photokina. These points lend credence to the rumor in my opinion. Maybe there will be an announcement about a future k3+.

09-16-2018, 09:24 AM	#15
Larrymc Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Mississippi, USA Posts: 5,251	Originally posted by swanlefitte I have been thinking a new k3+ needs a new sensor and there wasn't one. At least no one chimed in when I asked. This story also comes out soon before photokina. These points lend credence to the rumor in my opinion. Maybe there will be an announcement about a future k3+. Lets hope so! Just an announcement would cause quite a stir!!