[normhead]

To be honest, I'm not sure it would cost significantly more than the current system which has more or less to be redone for each camera.

The famous, "it won't cost anything argument." Another untestable theory. How would I phrase that. "Pentax could provide these things for nothing but they won't because they are bad people." or "Pentax could do this for almost nothing but they just aren't smart enough." Whatever way you phrase it, it sounds like Pentax is sitting there with a bag of Christmas goodies but are grinching out on us.

It sounds like Pentax is Santa at the Xmas parade and he's not throwing any candies your way from his big sack full of candies.

If it costs Pentax 50 bucks a camera , it costs me $100 and I'm not wanting to pay even $50 for those options. Pentax's issue with extraneous features that are not of interest to many core users is that development costs are the same as Nikon, Sony and Canon would be, but the R&D costs would have to be spread over a much smaller number of cameras.

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Last edited by normhead; 09-17-2018 at 08:24 AM.

[solitudebound]

I've seen this rumor. However it's mixed up and it is true that Fujifilm has partnered with Samsung for their new ISOCELL sensor which has been noted many months ago. So what ever this Ricoh/Pentax rumor is there doesn't seem to be any foundation to it except that for the migration from $ony to other sources that has been slowly progressing over the years.

You can look up this link below if you want to see the diagrams. Just don't harass me about it.

http://thenewcamera.com/samsung-join-hands-with-fujifilm-to-create-isocell-plus-sensors/

[reh321]

I've seen this rumor. However it's mixed up and it is true that Fujifilm has partnered with Samsung for their new ISOCELL sensor which has been noted many months ago. So what ever this Ricoh/Pentax rumor is there doesn't seem to be any foundation to it except that for the migration from $ony to other sources that has been slowly progressing over the years

and the K-3ii to NX500 comparison shows that Pentax could make significant improvements by switching supplier - that is an important realization.

[normhead]

there doesn't seem to be any foundation to it

That's why it's a rumour.
Once there's a foundation to it, it's a fact.
There's probably another forum section for facts.

---------- Post added 09-17-18 at 11:40 AM ----------

Many of you guys often said Fujifilm should stop to buy their sensors from Sony and buy them from Samsung, who already had a 28MP BSI sensor back in 2014 with their fantastic Samsung NX1, a camera that sadly didn’t had the success it deserved and that marked the end of Samsung’s attempt to join the high-end camera market.

https://www.fujirumors.com/samsung-and-fujifilm-developed-new-cmos-image-sen...olor-fidelity/

Would Pentax be further ahead with the Samsung BSI 28 MP sensor was that available 4 years ago.

Are we talking rumours or the inevitable? IS Pentax behind where the could have been because they stayed with Sony for the K-3? Will they make that mistake again?

Inquiring minds want to know.

In going to a functional 28 MP sensor Pentax would give folks a reason to buy Pentax over Canon, Nikon and Sony where they already have a lead in APS-c lenses. Maybe there are reasons Pentax hasn't gone this route, but pushing modern APS_c 28 MP sensor would pretty much take way the advantages of all the Sony, Canon, Nikon 24 or less sensors, both APS_c and full frame.

I like the idea just because it makes so much sense.

I don't think it would make much difference to IQ, but that MP thing still leads to the public's perception that it does, and it's the perception that sells cameras to the great unwashed, not actual performance.

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Last edited by normhead; 09-17-2018 at 08:49 AM.

[swanlefitte]

If pentax would go with apps I hope they have a pentax app store where I can just pay for the apps I want. I would get sudoku to play while I wait for the shot. They need a touchscreen for that.

[normhead]

If pentax would go with apps I hope they have a pentax app store where I can just pay for the apps I want. I would get sudoku to play while I wait for the shot. They need a touchscreen for that.

That does sound appealing.

[solitudebound]

That's why it's a rumour.
Once there's a foundation to it, it's a fact.
There's probably another forum section for facts.

---------- Post added 09-17-18 at 11:40 AM ----------



Samsung and Fujifilm Developed New CMOS Image Sensor Technology for Enhanced Light Sensitivity and Color Fidelity - Fuji Rumors

Would Pentax be further ahead with the Samsung BSI 28 MP sensor was that available 4 years ago.

Are we talking rumours or the inevitable? IS Pentax behind where the could have been because they stayed with Sony for the K-3? Will they make that mistake again?

Inquiring minds want to know.

In going to a functional 28 MP sensor Pentax would give folks a reason to buy Pentax over Canon, Nikon and Sony where they already have a lead in APS-c lenses. Maybe there are reasons Pentax hasn't gone this route, but pushing modern APS_c 28 MP sensor would pretty much take way the advantages of all the Sony, Canon, Nikon 24 or less sensors, both APS_c and full frame.

I like the idea just because it makes so much sense.

Historically the more advanced tech is production ready 5 years or more before it's revealed or released to the public. In theory it's still new since it's not in use yet, however there is a limit as to how far you can push that tech before it looses viability then you need something radically new. Pentax was able to squeeze out more value out of the Nikon D810 sensor in the K-1.

There are many viable and reliable sensor designs out there. Who and when they decide to use them is another story.

Thanks for the link.

[photoptimist]

Samsung could certainly make very nice APS-C and FF sensors if they wanted to. The only reason they would not do this is that the same wafer line that can produce APS-C sensors could produce about 30 times that number in smartphone sensors. Samsung would demand a pretty high price for the larger sensors to justify switching from high-volume smartphone sensor production to low-volume APS-C sensor production.

And Samsung does make some very fast processors. I'm sure Samsung can spank the pants off Socionext for overall crunch power. Whether Samsung processors are faster for specific low-latency tasks such as driving an EVF is another matter. Socionext processors have some very specialized architectural bits dedicated for the specific kinds of image processing needed for cameras. In contrast, Exynos are a bit more generic to cover a wider range of tasks.

However, using Android for a dedicated camera would suck on user experience. Android OS is not a "real time OS." That means that the software in the OS offers absolutely no guarantees that any bit of code takes a certain amount of time. On average, Android plus a high-end processor can be very fast. But that doesn't mean that every time you hit the shutter button, the camera will take the picture instantly. Users of such a camera would find that sometimes the camera pauses or does not respond instantly to a button press or dial move. Keeper rates would be lower on such a camera. For casual snapshots and selfies, Android is fine. But for more dedicated, precision photography, Android would be frustrating.

[MMVIII]

That's why it's a rumour.
Once there's a foundation to it, it's a fact.
There's probably another forum section for facts.

---------- Post added 09-17-18 at 11:40 AM ----------



Samsung and Fujifilm Developed New CMOS Image Sensor Technology for Enhanced Light Sensitivity and Color Fidelity - Fuji Rumors

Would Pentax be further ahead with the Samsung BSI 28 MP sensor was that available 4 years ago.

Are we talking rumours or the inevitable? IS Pentax behind where the could have been because they stayed with Sony for the K-3? Will they make that mistake again?

Inquiring minds want to know.

In going to a functional 28 MP sensor Pentax would give folks a reason to buy Pentax over Canon, Nikon and Sony where they already have a lead in APS-c lenses. Maybe there are reasons Pentax hasn't gone this route, but pushing modern APS_c 28 MP sensor would pretty much take way the advantages of all the Sony, Canon, Nikon 24 or less sensors, both APS_c and full frame.

I like the idea just because it makes so much sense.

I don't think it would make much difference to IQ, but that MP thing still leads to the public's perception that it does, and it's the perception that sells cameras to the great unwashed, not actual performance.

Rumours stay rumours, regardless of their twisting and stretching in threads...
But I'll bite also on this one. It might have some interesting implications, sure, as a thought experiment, why not.
Still, I would assume for Pentax with their multiplatform needs it would not be only about a new sensor for the APS-C and associted ISP, but also the processing engine for FF and 645. Maybe the developments here are more bound to the Sony Socionext ecosystem? Or this is the start to fork the portfolio into APS-C (K3++P, GR++...) with advanced speed and video capabilities and the line above with no compromise on stills IQ...? Who knows?

[Mistral75]

Samsung could certainly make very nice APS-C and FF sensors if they wanted to. The only reason they would not do this is that the same wafer line that can produce APS-C sensors could produce about 30 times that number in smartphone sensors. Samsung would demand a pretty high price for the larger sensors to justify switching from high-volume smartphone sensor production to low-volume APS-C sensor production.

(...)

It wouldn't be the same wafer line. APS-C and 24x36 sensors, with their comparatively low density of photodiodes, are produced on equipment which are several generations behind those required for smartphone sensors.

[ogl]

Would Pentax be further ahead with the Samsung BSI 28 MP sensor was that available 4 years ago.

.

We talk about 30 MP sensor for NX-2, not about NX-1's sensor.

[reh321]

Rumours stay rumours, regardless of their twisting and stretching in threads...
But I'll bite also on this one. It might have some interesting implications, sure, as a thought experiment, why not.
Still, I would assume for Pentax with their multiplatform needs it would not be only about a new sensor for the APS-C and associted ISP, but also the processing engine for FF and 645. Maybe the developments here are more bound to the Sony Socionext ecosystem? Or this is the start to fork the portfolio into APS-C (K3++P, GR++...) with advanced speed and video capabilities and the line above with no compromise on stills IQ...? Who knows?

As a {retired} system developer, I would expect them to stick with one processor. If they switch processors for the APS line, I would expect them to use the same 'new' processor for all following cameras {so they can 'reuse'/'share' code - but that is just my guess.

[MMVIII]

As a {retired} system developer, I would expect them to stick with one processor. If they switch processors for the APS line, I would expect them to use the same 'new' processor for all following cameras {so they can 'reuse'/'share' code - but that is just my guess.

That's what I would have thought too. Therefore, either a complete change and new development with a Samsung ISP or this rumour is (partly) unlikely heading the right direction

[The Squirrel Mafia]

This is a very exciting rumor if it turns out to be true. More than likely the K-3II successor will have much improved AF performance & image quality. Good stuff!

[normhead]

That's what I would have thought too. Therefore, either a complete change and new development with a Samsung ISP or this rumour is (partly) unlikely heading the right direction

Pentax went from CCDs to CMOS, it's happened before. It is possible that they will make the same type decision going from CMOS to BSI CMOS. if they have to redesign anyway, all bets as to which company's BSI they select are off. They'll select the most competitive design available at the moment. And Sony has taken themselves out of competitive by only offering Pentax 2 year old tech. I assume that going BSI, they'll be facing the same challenges, regardless of who they select as a supplier.