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09-25-2008, 09:14 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by RBellavance Quote
That makes a lot of sense, and that's how I understand things as well. I don't believe non-*, non-Ltd primes are coming back any time soon.

PS.: you can pry my FA35/2 and my F50/1.7 from my cold, dead hands
Well that sucks. I imagine Pentax would be able to sell cheaper non-*/non-Ltd primes more now that they have an entry-level model. I mean, there are those who would still rather pay extra to buy a new item than scrounge around for 2nd-hand stuff.

09-25-2008, 09:36 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by m8o Quote
Anyone ever figure out what the "something special instore" is [or was intended to be] that was stated by Pentax late last year / early this year?

p.s. after recently reading about the ultra wide zoom Tamron that's only 250mm focused @ infinity, I wonder if this lens will have [be plagued by] that behavior?
"A unique nonlinear shifting system employed in the zoom mechanism effectively reduces field curvature aberrations and assures solid image-description performance at all focal lengths. "

Regards,
Radu
09-25-2008, 10:07 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
Well that sucks. I imagine Pentax would be able to sell cheaper non-*/non-Ltd primes more now that they have an entry-level model. I mean, there are those who would still rather pay extra to buy a new item than scrounge around for 2nd-hand stuff.
Well,

I have a "guesstheory" that says like this: in the (not so distant) future Pentax label will be only on kit lenses, Limiteds and *s and we'll see some Hoya lenses with cheaper prices but reasonable features being produced first for K mount and latter for other mounts possibly as a competition for other third party lens makers. Also I think some current Pentax designs will be replaced and relegated to the "Hoya label" status. Especially some designs based on colaboration with Tokina and hence not exclusive enough or early DA designs (16-45, 14, 100/2.8 Macro - ok, I know this was not a DA design). Also maybe slightly tweaked (new coatings and SDM) older classics such as 50/1.7, 135/2.5 or 3.5 and so on. But it will take time, a lot of time.

Radu
09-25-2008, 05:55 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by RaduA Quote
Well,

I have a "guesstheory" that says like this: in the (not so distant) future Pentax label will be only on kit lenses, Limiteds and *s and we'll see some Hoya lenses with cheaper prices but reasonable features being produced first for K mount and latter for other mounts possibly as a competition for other third party lens makers. Also I think some current Pentax designs will be replaced and relegated to the "Hoya label" status. Especially some designs based on colaboration with Tokina and hence not exclusive enough or early DA designs (16-45, 14, 100/2.8 Macro - ok, I know this was not a DA design). Also maybe slightly tweaked (new coatings and SDM) older classics such as 50/1.7, 135/2.5 or 3.5 and so on. But it will take time, a lot of time.

Radu
I wouldn't mind waiting if that will come to pass. I see a redesigned 50/1.7 doing more sales for Hoya than the DA* 55/1.4, excellent as it may be (on the assumption that the last FA 50/1.4 rolled off the production line).

09-25-2008, 06:34 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
Well that sucks. I imagine Pentax would be able to sell cheaper non-*/non-Ltd primes more now that they have an entry-level model. I mean, there are those who would still rather pay extra to buy a new item than scrounge around for 2nd-hand stuff.
Emotionally I agree, but I grow up on primes, didn't buy a zoom until years later. Logically, I think they are right in that the wast majority of the K-m buyers will only buy the two kit L zoom lenses they offer. A few will buy the K-m to put ltd pancakes on it. At least I hope this is how it is going to be, because it they don't sell that many K-m's they will not make the money needed to develop other more interesting future products.

I think it is also fair to say that the 18-55 and the 50-200 zooms that are now going to be sold as L version kit zoom's for the K-m is good enough to be compared with, or to beat, the tons of 28/2.8, 50/2.0 and 135/2.8 lenses most brands were selling with their start kits 20-30 years ago. And a lot of users then never bought any more lenses. See how plenty they are on e-bay. And those were never the best lenses in the lens program. But they made money on it because the SLR market was much bigger then with no Point and Shoot cameras (except instamatic and similar fix focus cameras ). Now I think they have made the K-m with the two L zoom's to try to win over some point and shoot users who are looking for something more. And I hope it will work.

QuoteOriginally posted by RaduA Quote
Well,

I have a "guesstheory" that says like this: in the (not so distant) future Pentax label will be only on kit lenses, Limiteds and *s and we'll see some Hoya lenses with cheaper prices but reasonable features being produced first for K mount and latter for other mounts possibly as a competition for other third party lens makers. Also I think some current Pentax designs will be replaced and relegated to the "Hoya label" status. Especially some designs based on colaboration with Tokina and hence not exclusive enough or early DA designs (16-45, 14, 100/2.8 Macro - ok, I know this was not a DA design). Also maybe slightly tweaked (new coatings and SDM) older classics such as 50/1.7, 135/2.5 or 3.5 and so on. But it will take time, a lot of time.

Radu
Interesting. I'm wondering if you have any grounds to really believe this... Sounds like when they were trying to sell low grade versions of their lenses as "Takumar (bayonet)", which I don't think was much of a success. But it depends on the market and on what sort of compromise between quality and price they would make. Hoya have built SLR lenses before, but I think it was long ago.

So Samsung will make the bodies, Hoya the low grade lenses and Pentax the high grade lenses?
09-26-2008, 04:54 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden Quote
Interesting. I'm wondering if you have any grounds to really believe this... Sounds like when they were trying to sell low grade versions of their lenses as "Takumar (bayonet)", which I don't think was much of a success. But it depends on the market and on what sort of compromise between quality and price they would make. Hoya have built SLR lenses before, but I think it was long ago.

So Samsung will make the bodies, Hoya the low grade lenses and Pentax the high grade lenses?
Well, Douglas

I tend to separate quite clearly what I think and what I know (unlike other people on this forum, btw). This move from Hoya would seem natural and economically viable to me in the future 2-3 years after they'll steer Pentax in one direction or another. If Pentax' market share and customer base increases then my scenario is quite logical IMO. If they struggle and Hoya pulls the plug then we could see all Pentax designs (maybe rebranded as Hoya) for N and maybe C mount.

Just MHO,
Radu
09-26-2008, 02:54 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by RaduA Quote
Well, Douglas

I tend to separate quite clearly what I think and what I know (unlike other people on this forum, btw). This move from Hoya would seem natural and economically viable to me in the future 2-3 years after they'll steer Pentax in one direction or another. If Pentax' market share and customer base increases then my scenario is quite logical IMO. If they struggle and Hoya pulls the plug then we could see all Pentax designs (maybe rebranded as Hoya) for N and maybe C mount.

Just MHO,
Radu
Don't worry, I've noticed you are not a RH or WB

Well, your black option makes sense. If they fail, the designs are probably the most valuable that are left of Pentax. But I sure would hate to see that. But I have wondered if this is not a logical end if Pentax continue to struggle to compete with bodies, but still have excellent lenses. Even before Hoya I wondered if in the end Pentax would become a 3rd party lens maker selling their lenses with any bayonet, not necessarily giving up their own bodies totally, but giving up the competition. Not so anyone misunderstands me, it is not what I want, just something I've seen as a possible future.

In your better option, if Hoya want to sell cheaper K-lenses in a different name, even their own name, sure go ahead. More options for lenses, and the money goes to Hoya/Pentax, not to someone else...good. But I'm not sure it makes as much sense to name them Hoya. More likely then I would guess something like "Pentax Hoya". Hoya has a name for making glass, but not so much among the consumers, except for some UV or skylight filters, more so among those buying glass to build their own products. Pentax has a consumer name, if somewhat rusty. This is as far as I understand it, all guesses from a long time amateur.
09-27-2008, 12:01 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Matt Miller Quote
I'm anxious to see how the 55 will compare to my favorite lens, the Nokton 58mm. I'd love to have the same or better image quality in a weather sealed lens that will auto focus. Saving my pennies now.
Went to Fotokina on wednesday to see my next "want to have lens" the DA15. Its really a little beauty. The tulip shape shade is insertable and this lens will fit perfectly in my line up.

But what really inspired me was the DA*55. Its mutch smaller than I thaught before. Believe me, I love my Nokton mutch. But if the DA*55 has only that good IQ as I expect (see the IMO outstandingly IQ of the DA35) I must have it.

The DA*55 dream lens: IQ of the FA*85 1.4 + SDM + Sealing + small size and little weight of 375g + Quick Shift cries Buy Me!


So I think I like to have the DA15 and the DA*55 both. For that way I will sell my Nokton and my strange to say rarely used DA70.



BTW. Im not in Zoom lenses, but for them who likes: The DA 60-250 was a really nice lens in my hands. The pics I made with it look very good for a lens in this kind. You can be happy forward.



The Nikon guys (the Nikon exhibition booth is next from the Pentax) were standing very excited in front of this Pentax showcase:



Rainer

09-27-2008, 01:02 PM   #69
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can someone please send a few sample shots from these lenses ( in raw thanks ) my way
09-27-2008, 04:30 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden Quote
Don't worry, I've noticed you are not a RH or WB

Well, your black option makes sense. If they fail, the designs are probably the most valuable that are left of Pentax. But I sure would hate to see that. But I have wondered if this is not a logical end if Pentax continue to struggle to compete with bodies, but still have excellent lenses. Even before Hoya I wondered if in the end Pentax would become a 3rd party lens maker selling their lenses with any bayonet, not necessarily giving up their own bodies totally, but giving up the competition. Not so anyone misunderstands me, it is not what I want, just something I've seen as a possible future.

In your better option, if Hoya want to sell cheaper K-lenses in a different name, even their own name, sure go ahead. More options for lenses, and the money goes to Hoya/Pentax, not to someone else...good. But I'm not sure it makes as much sense to name them Hoya. More likely then I would guess something like "Pentax Hoya". Hoya has a name for making glass, but not so much among the consumers, except for some UV or skylight filters, more so among those buying glass to build their own products. Pentax has a consumer name, if somewhat rusty. This is as far as I understand it, all guesses from a long time amateur.
Douglas,

Seeing the bashing of DA 17-70 before some serious tests (btw from 599 the price fell to about 450 Euro in couple of months) and now the frantic debate about the two DA* lens prices way before somebody even tested them informally, let alone professionaly this was what I thought would make the most sense. And probably Hoya noticed too that the third party lens makers will eat a portion of K-mount sales. This will happen anyway but thinking about some facts (Tokina doesn't make K mount lenses, Sigma pays no royalties, Tamron undercuts in some respects most prices with good optics and decent quality lenses) I recon this is the best way to gain more of the K mount market in the first place and others maybe latter. Now Hoya has some obvious advantages here:

- of course has the glass cheapest than anyone probably;
- has the old Pentax blueprints free so in some cases development costs are minimal (new coatings and maybe motors and revised materials and assembly technologies). For example a "modernised" 50/1.7 comes to mind at about 100 Euro to battle the cheaper Canon and Nikon 50/1.8;
- has a clear view of its target customers and also competitors (Sigma, Tamron) their prices and quality.

Like I said what I'll do in Hoya's shoes would be to retire some current Pentax designs, replace them with Ltds or DA*s and repackage them as "hoya" after the before mentioned "treatment". This way I could:

- use the current lines of assembly;
- give pentaxians proven lenses in quality and performance for a bit less than before price wise;
- improve the brand name of Pentax by a new line-up of state of the art designs. This way Pentax could become sinonimous with extreme optical and mechanical quality for way less than Zeiss, Leica or Voigtlaender. Maybe the kit lenses will be "Hoya" too.

Regards,
Radu
09-28-2008, 06:06 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by RaduA Quote
Like I said what I'll do in Hoya's shoes would be to retire some current Pentax designs, replace them with Ltds or DA*s and repackage them as "hoya" after the before mentioned "treatment". This way I could:

- use the current lines of assembly;
- give pentaxians proven lenses in quality and performance for a bit less than before price wise;
- improve the brand name of Pentax by a new line-up of state of the art designs. This way Pentax could become sinonimous with extreme optical and mechanical quality for way less than Zeiss, Leica or Voigtlaender. Maybe the kit lenses will be "Hoya" too.

Regards,
Radu
Of course, if you're gonna make Pentax a high-end brand name, the Pentax logo on the entry-level cameras should be Hoya, too, and, well, that just doesn't look and sound right to me.

I actually like the current Pentax lens branding:
- DA* for high-end lenses (with corresponding prices to match)
- Limiteds for pancake primes (reasonable quality-to-cost ratio)
- plain-Jane DA for consumer zooms
- DA-L for the most basic kit lenses

I'd appreciate it if Hoya could beef up the regular DA line, though. Reality check is, a lot of Pentax users bought into Pentax for the value proposition, and it might get people buying more new Pentax lenses than scrounging for good eBay deals on used lenses.
10-05-2008, 11:30 AM   #72
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I posted this in another thread but I will verse it here to.

If sigma can price the 50 F1.4 @ $450 street then the 55 F1.4 pentax is priced correctly, assuming the IQ will equal the sigma and they have no QC problems.

As for the 60-260 same deal, the $1500 intro price is a bit high but that should come down soon and IF it performs it is priced correctly, that is IF it performs at least on par with the sigma 100-300 f4 ( which is NOT weather sealed nor hsm for us ) or the canon 70-200 F4 ( also not sealed ).

Now all we need is to see some sample images from both and tests to be certain. I'm also sure the Pricing is due to the stronger yen vs the weak Us dollar as well.

So now we go into 2009 with Pentax finally filling the Lens line up sufficiently, time will tell if Pentax can move to secure a 5-10% of the market share which it will need to compete but as it is the lens line up is finally the way we need it.
10-05-2008, 06:21 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
DA*55/1.4 has unique optical scheme - I can't find something similiar -
http://media.pentax.de/downloads/lenses/de/Datenblatt%2055mm.pdf

it will have another picture than FA50 or FA*85...
FA 50/1.4
http://kmp.bdimitrov.de/lenses/primes/_optics/50f1.4-iii.jpg

it maybe based on Pentax's previous 50mm f/1.4 lens's structure,
but.. two new lenses are added.
center one is maybe SLD lens. hmm.. interesting..
and another one will be normal lens or SLD lens too.
not ED and AL lens.
10-05-2008, 06:24 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Anybody knows if new lenses have RING USM or MICRO USM?

http://forum.ixbt.com/post.cgi?id=attach:20:25396:1609:1

here is from Canon
Ring USM, Micro USM and Micro USM II
now time, Pentax's KAF3 lens are two..
17-70mm f/4 and 55mm f/1.4

I heard 17-70's AF is not very fast, so I am afraid to it's not Ring USM..
KAF3, still micro USM?

DA☆50-135 is slower than FA77mm f/1.8 Limited and FA43mm f/1.9 Limited!
10-05-2008, 07:39 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by miriya Quote
DA☆50-135 is slower than FA77mm f/1.8 Limited and FA43mm f/1.9 Limited!
Really? Those two (the FA Limiteds) are definitely slower than the DA 40mm Limited on the K10D.
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