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11-05-2008, 08:21 AM   #91
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I have the DA*50-135/2.8 and find it to be Pentax's best current zoom lens by far.

If you let it hunt it does indeed seem slow. I compared with my Sigma EX70-200/2.8 (last pre-digital version, sold in the mean time) and travel time when hunting was about twice as long!! Slower? No, when I looked closer it's all about focus range. About half the travel of the DA*50-135/2.8 is between 1m and 1m80. The Sigma doesn't focus closer than 1m80 so never does that part of the travel. So the time it takes the Sigma to go from infinite to 1m80 is actually about the same as for the DA*50-135 between those two focus distances.

The Sigma was always considered a fast focuser... So why would the DA*50-135/2.8 be considered a slow focuser? Because in similar use it's just as fast, only with close-up subjects it becomes slower, but that's only normal I would say. The only comparison for me is my macro (Tamron SP90/2.8) as my other telelenses (incl previously owned) don't focus as close as the DA*50-135, and even if I activate the focus limiter the DA*50-135 still beats it...

Conclusion: all things are relative...

Back on topic. I hope the DA*60-250/4 will equal the DA*50-135's IQ. If so it will be one great lens with a unique range. It's a shame it's an external zoom as said before, but if that helps keep it smaller at 60mm, so be it...

Wim

11-05-2008, 09:51 AM   #92
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True, all things are relative. The 50-135 is pretty fast in good light. Pretty slow in low light COMPARED to the Nikkor 70-200 that I was using in the past. But man, it's a third of the price and the optics are very good indeed. But for the wedding I shot, the AF was quite a problem in catching those fleeting and spontaneous moments. I was like "c'mon focus already" where in it would just snap into focus with my old Nikkor.

But again, I'm comparing it to a lens that's pretty much 3x the price.

Edit: I am excited though for the AF of the upcoming bodies. I hope it'll boost the SDM speed. The K-m is supposedly quite a bit faster. A quick and sharp 60-250 would be incredible!
11-05-2008, 02:08 PM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ishpuini Quote

The Sigma was always considered a fast focuser... So why would the DA*50-135/2.8 be considered a slow focuser? Because in similar use it's just as fast, only with close-up subjects it becomes slower, but that's only normal I would say. The only comparison for me is my macro (Tamron SP90/2.8) as my other telelenses (incl previously owned) don't focus as close as the DA*50-135, and even if I activate the focus limiter the DA*50-135 still beats it...

Wim
Which make me think Pentax might want to implement a focus limiter in lenses they chose to design with good close focus capabilities...
11-05-2008, 07:11 PM   #94
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[QUOTE=24X36NOW;349815]I have no interest in APS-C lenses, but 60-250 is a lousy choice of focal lengths for the Pentax APS-C system. Since there are so damn few tele zooms (or high quality zooms in general for that matter) in their system to begin with, why duplicate everything from 60-135 that you already get with the 50-135 F2.8??
[snip]

Probably because they're not trying to do an addition to continuous range zoom series with the 60-250, but rather to produce a "zoo lens" (soccer game lens, etc.).

So it's got the arms-length-to-over-there focal length range; it's optimized for fast auto-focus, with a short focusing throw and SDM; and it's not all that heavy. It's meant to be the one lens you stick on your camera when you walk around the zoo, or take pictures of your kids or your dog at the park, and so on.

Continuing the range of the 50-135 may or may not be something Pentax considers; the 'maintain the traditional field of view' thing doesn't really support it, since there were no really traditional zoom ranges that went past 200.

What I'm hoping is that the next thing is an admission that people trying to do nature photography (and probably sports photography) don't care so much about field of view, they care about raw reach. 200-500 f4 would be an expensive, hefty beast, but a very useful expensive, hefty beast.

11-05-2008, 10:54 PM   #95
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I dunno about you but a lens with 60-250mm focal length f/4 that's weather-sealed sounds good to me
11-06-2008, 09:46 AM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by Graydon Quote
What I'm hoping is that the next thing is an admission that people trying to do nature photography (and probably sports photography) don't care so much about field of view, they care about raw reach. 200-500 f4 would be an expensive, hefty beast, but a very useful expensive, hefty beast.
Well my view is it's no mystery why Sigma doesn't release the 120-300mm f/2.8 in Pentax mount but does the 100-300mm f/4... "if Pentax themselves don't see a market for that range and speed to produce one why should we suffer the expense of producing something that won't sell much", is what I think is what they say.

Me, I'd very happily sell my Sigma 300mm f/2.8 and get their 120-300mm f/2.8 in Pentax mount; giving up just a little in quality (that zoom doesn't give-up much) so I can use it about 10x more (Am I in the minority? )... but they don't see it that way. I fear we'll never see something like 200-500/4 from Pentax and other manufacturers won't fill that gap either; we, using our Pentax camera for that type of shooting are in too small a minority, and from what I gather from my time here, are much tighter with the wallet on average to justify that expense.
11-06-2008, 10:47 PM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by m8o Quote
Well my view is it's no mystery why Sigma doesn't release the 120-300mm f/2.8 in Pentax mount but does the 100-300mm f/4... "if Pentax themselves don't see a market for that range and speed to produce one why should we suffer the expense of producing something that won't sell much", is what I think is what they say.

Me, I'd very happily sell my Sigma 300mm f/2.8 and get their 120-300mm f/2.8 in Pentax mount; giving up just a little in quality (that zoom doesn't give-up much) so I can use it about 10x more (Am I in the minority? )... but they don't see it that way. I fear we'll never see something like 200-500/4 from Pentax and other manufacturers won't fill that gap either; we, using our Pentax camera for that type of shooting are in too small a minority, and from what I gather from my time here, are much tighter with the wallet on average to justify that expense.
I would have to agree with you here.
The sigma 120-300/2.8 is a huge and very nice lens one of those unique sigma offerings. But again I do not think there is a huge market ready to put down the money for it in K mount.

A 200-500/4 would not only be larger than the Nikkor 200-400/4, it would probably also go for a price around the 5300USD the Nikkor goes for. I just do not think there is a very large market for lenses like this in K mount. unfortunately.
11-07-2008, 07:28 PM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by Duplo Quote
A 200-500/4 would not only be larger than the Nikkor 200-400/4, it would probably also go for a price around the 5300USD the Nikkor goes for. I just do not think there is a very large market for lenses like this in K mount. unfortunately.
Well, true, but that's something of a chicken-and-egg problem; Pentax doesn't attract sports and nature shooters particularly because it doesn't sell lenses like that, and it doesn't sell lenses like that because Pentax doesn't attract sports and nature shooters particularly. (Which is a pity; there are surprising number of birders out there willing to spend $2 kUSD on binoculars, after all.)

The K20D sensor has good low light performance; there's a general trend in the DA*s and KnnD cameras to weather sealing. Some long and decently fast (what I want is a 300/2; if they can make a 600/4 they can make a 300/2, but I don't expect them to try) lenses and an improved shutter box (almost certainly already on the development list) in successor cameras would start to provide a good sales story for sports and nature shooters.

No idea if that's a direction Pentax wants to go, of course. And if they did, they might be better off emulating the sort of camera-in-a-scope thing Zeiss has announced.

11-07-2008, 07:36 PM   #99
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At photokina

The DA*60-250/4 i looked at wasen´t good, things can hapen on a place like Photokina. At f4 it looks bad, particular at borders. See:
Inför fotomässan - Fotosidans Forum
Last pics with DA*50-135/2,8 @f4 to compare with(no sharpening on this one).
Last 2 of 3 over this is from DA17-70 at 70mm and f4.
It is something wrong on that lens.
11-08-2008, 07:15 AM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by Graydon Quote
The K20D sensor has good low light performance; there's a general trend in the DA*s and KnnD cameras to weather sealing. Some long and decently fast (what I want is a 300/2; if they can make a 600/4 they can make a 300/2, but I don't expect them to try) lenses and an improved shutter box (almost certainly already on the development list) in successor cameras would start to provide a good sales story for sports and nature shooters
Well, only one manufacturer I know of have ever had a 300/2 in production.
And talk about a beast of a 300mm:
Nikkor 300mm f/2.0 ED IF Super telephoto lens

Nikon F 300/2
The lens is today mainly used in the motion picture industry IIRC and goes for around 10K used.
11-08-2008, 09:25 AM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by Duplo Quote
Well, only one manufacturer I know of have ever had a 300/2 in production.
And talk about a beast of a 300mm:
Nikkor 300mm f/2.0 ED IF Super telephoto lens
I particularly like the "heavy duty lens carrying eyelet" in the description.

And yes, a beast of a lens. But by no means an impossible thing to do.

If you're not running on name recognition and all those folks in the press gallery using your equipment, having a little something extra doesn't hurt marketing.

This is one of the reasons I'm hoping the admittedly hypothetical super-telephoto is a DA* 200-500 F4. The 500 will be attractive of itself to people not shooting Pentax already, and it doesn't take very many "how'd you get that?" bird photos to produce a certain kind of prosumer interest. (Most of the other reasons involve wanting to take the "how'd you get that?" bird photos.)
11-08-2008, 03:10 PM   #102
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Well, there is a "super telephoto" being mentioned by Pentax in the new roadmap or somewhere. While I'm sure 300/2 is a '[ahem] never', I take "super telephoto" to mean (there's a chance) Pentax may re-introduce a 500/4.5. They seem to love "f/4" lenses, so my belief is they'd do a 500/4.5 before they'd do a 300 or 400/2.8, etc. I think the FA600/4 is still available as special order, so I don't think that's what they're talking about commoditizing (I had to look up spelling on that one ) as a DA/DA* lens.

...but, we digress...
11-10-2008, 05:52 AM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by Graydon Quote
I particularly like the "heavy duty lens carrying eyelet" in the description.

And yes, a beast of a lens. But by no means an impossible thing to do.
I think I disagree a little here, the fact that only on manufacturer have had one and that it is from the manual focus era tells that it is a lens that is neither easy nor cheap to produce.
Impossible, no it is not. But the fast a lens gets the more difficult it is to design (if I have read things right) so it is a very different beast than a 600/4.

QuoteOriginally posted by Graydon Quote
If you're not running on name recognition and all those folks in the press gallery using your equipment, having a little something extra doesn't hurt marketing.
Agreed.

QuoteOriginally posted by Graydon Quote
This is one of the reasons I'm hoping the admittedly hypothetical super-telephoto is a DA* 200-500 F4. The 500 will be attractive of itself to people not shooting Pentax already, and it doesn't take very many "how'd you get that?" bird photos to produce a certain kind of prosumer interest. (Most of the other reasons involve wanting to take the "how'd you get that?" bird photos.)
If you are ready for both the bulk and cost then I agree, but a 200-500 f4 is going to be huge and extremely expensive.
11-10-2008, 09:42 AM   #104
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I think a 400/4 is the most obvious choice. Pentax knows how to do one well (the 400/4 for 67), it has the same field of view of the FA*600/4 (a common recent trend of Pentax is to shorten the classic focals by the 1,5 crop), it will work well in AF with the 1,4 TC and will be usable without tripod or monopod.
11-10-2008, 08:05 PM   #105
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Looks like we can get both of these lenses in Jan. '09 Lens Roadmap Updated 9/22/08

Last edited by Buddha Jones; 11-11-2008 at 01:42 PM.
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