[MMVIII]

Why new feauters, why ISo, why Touch, Why all of that - when Less is more. Why

Why high ISO performance? Why SR?
-> only to finally get rid of the flash :-D

[BigMackCam]

Maybe I didnt understand GR line positioning but I do not get what it brings in comparison with RX100 family?
Better lens but prime,
Larger sensor but RX100 output is already excellent despite smaller sensor,
No built in flash,
Battery autonomy is not breath taking
Price of GRIII is sweeter at least

It's not competing with the RX100, IMHO. In fact, I don't think Ricoh is trying to compete with any other product with the GRIII. It stands quite independently, and there's a healthy market for such a camera.

The RX100 series are good little cameras, but even the latest version doesn't come close to the image quality of the outgoing GRII at base ISO, and the gap widens further as ISO increases. Check out the studio test shots at "the other place" and you'll see what I'm getting at.

[panonski]

Why high ISO performance? Why SR?
-> only to finally get rid of the flash :-D

same thougts

[BigMackCam]

you must be right :P

Flash is stupid - why it have to be on the camera

It's a TOOL . If someone selling a tool to a thousends - then it's obvious fail for some.


So - its LESS usefull.

Please re-read my previous post. I already said agreed that without the flash, the GRIII will be less useful for some, while others won't care - and there's a hot shoe, so a small flash unit can be fitted very easily. But if some folks absolutely must have a built-in flash, they can choose a different TOOL.

I would guess that the majority of folks buying a GRIII won't mourn a built-in flash, as it would be of limited value in the most common use cases. Note that I'm not saying flash is stupid (nor did I say that previously) - I'm just saying that in this application, it has limited value.

I'm sure if Ricoh felt they could include a built-in flash unit and still match their design brief on size and features, they would have done. Just as I'm sure they'd have included a flash on the K-3II if they'd had room after fitting the GPS unit.

[biz-engineer]

Why high ISO performance? Why SR?-> only to finally get rid of the flash

Flash isn't supposed to stop camera motion, it is supposed to lighten up a subject. The job of SR is to emulate the use of tripod (with limited capability). And, high ISO is useful when the lens is stopped down because of the DoF needed to have the image sharp across the frame. ISO, SR and flash do not play the same roles.

[BigMackCam]

Flash isn't supposed to stop camera motion, it is supposed to lighten up a subject. The job of SR is to emulate the use of tripod (with limited capability). And, high ISO is useful when the lens is stopped down because of the DoF needed to have the image sharp across the frame. ISO, SR and flash do not play the same roles.

Same thoughts

[gaweidert]

Flash isn't supposed to stop camera motion, it is supposed to lighten up a subject. The job of SR is to emulate the use of tripod (with limited capability). And, high ISO is useful when the lens is stopped down because of the DoF needed to have the image sharp across the frame. ISO, SR and flash do not play the same roles.

In the olden days of the bulb flash, this was true, but the modern strobe based flash systems have performed quite well in this regard. Whether by design or net, I used it to freeze motion in the old film days. When sync mode is 1/60 second on the old cameras, they work for this purpose. Compared to the old large flash bulbs the strobe flash is almost instantaneous.

[panonski]

Please re-read my previous post. I already said agreed that without the flash, the GRIII will be less useful for some, while others won't care - and there's a hot shoe, so a small flash unit can be fitted very easily. But if some folks absolutely must have a built-in flash, they can choose a different camera.

I would guess that the majority of folks buying a GRIII won't mourn a built-in flash, as it would be of limited value in the most common use cases. Note that I'm not saying flash is stupid (nor did I say that previously) - I'm just saying that in this application, it has limited value.

I'm sure if Ricoh felt they could include a built-in flash unit and still match their design brief on size and features, they would have done. Just as I'm sure they'd have included a flash on the K-3II if they'd had room after fitting the GPS unit.

I think companies - fails to recognise - why people LOVE smaller cameras, and some of them - ( Olympus Pen - remove the flash from PEN F also ) - just choose to cut down features.


If something is "I TOOK IT EVERYWHERE" camera - I think it's a BIG fail to cut - the flash unit off.

For me - That makes no sense - and I'm saying that from a COMPANY perspective.

--
They cutting one really essential - usefull feature - just why exactly ? - TO HAVE LESS CUSTOMERS WHO WILL PURCHASE THE PRODUCT ?

--


I remember various companies who try to cut down - their - very good received products - and that was never ever good move to do. People always feel like the're be fooled, and they rather wait - or purchase something else.


I would never buy GR - just because I already have street camera(s) - and If today I'll be leaved without any - GR III would not be my choice.


( also I disliked fixed lens- I loved ZOOM GX 200, and only wide view is not a thing for me .
Street photography,

with only wide lens - push you into the situation you want to photograph - and then people see you, and you ruined everything )

--

Best of all volks , don't bother what panosnki is saying

[MMVIII]

Same thoughts

Oh, I have to use bigger sarcasm tags...

[reh321]

Flash isn't supposed to stop camera motion, it is supposed to lighten up a subject. The job of SR is to emulate the use of tripod (with limited capability). And, high ISO is useful when the lens is stopped down because of the DoF needed to have the image sharp across the frame. ISO, SR and flash do not play the same roles.

This is a question of 'style' again. In my use of cameras, higher ISO and flash serve exactly the same role - means of dealing with 'insufficient' ambient light, and each has its limitations; a small flash creates harsh shadows and its use is seriously hampered by the Inverse Square Law. I have never used the funky flash built into my Q-7 since I found the small external flash I formerly used with my Super Program, and then only rarely. I consider the flash built into my KP a waste of space and grams.

[panonski]

In the olden days of the bulb flash, this was true, but the modern strobe based flash systems have performed quite well in this regard. Whether by design or net, I used it to freeze motion in the old film days. When sync mode is 1/60 second on the old cameras, they work for this purpose. Compared to the old large flash bulbs the strobe flash is almost instantaneous.

Flash on these cameras - works even in the 1/2000 sec - because of different mechanism. ( at least my GX-


and that's why are so damn usefull

[MMVIII]

I think companies - fails to recognise - why people LOVE smaller cameras, and some of them - ( Olympus Pen - remove the flash from PEN F also ) - just choose to cut down features.


If something is "I TOOK IT EVERYWHERE" camera - I think it's a BIG fail to cut - the flash unit off.

For me - That makes no sense - and I'm saying that from a COMPANY perspective.

--
They cutting one really essential - usefull feature - just why exactly ? - TO HAVE LESS CUSTOMERS WHO WILL PURCHASE THE PRODUCT ?

--


I remember various companies who try to cut down - their - very good received products - and that was never ever good move to do. People always feel like the're be fooled, and they rather wait - or purchase something else.


I would never buy GR - just because I already have street camera(s) - and If today I'll be leaved without any - GR III would not be my choice.


( also I disliked fixed lens- I loved ZOOM GX 200, and only wide view is not a thing for me .
Street photography,

with only wide lens - push you into the situation you want to photograph - and then people see you, and you ruined everything )

--

Best of all volks , don't bother what panosnki is saying

Right, so you explained now that there are plenty of reasons why GR does not suit your style and that you are looking for a completely different kind of camera. But why really bother to... ah, whatever.

[panonski]

Right, so you explained now that there are plenty of reasons why GR does not suit your style and that you are looking for a completely different kind of camera. But why really bother to... ah, whatever.

JUST BECAUSE - I'M ALLERGIC WHEN COMPANIES - DON'T LISTEN.
-
I was a long waited CAPLIO GX 200 succesor - which never came out.


--
They just ended it, iand it was such a wonderfull camera, so please to play, and use. ONE IN THE THOUSENDS - I choosed , and believe me - I'm not chooing anything over night, and before I red every review ojn the internet.

--
They made a mistake - I moved to Olympus PEN E-P5 ( another IT HAVE IT ALL camera ) .

--

So, essentially - I'm here just to inform them - if they'e reading.

[awscreo]

I think companies - fails to recognise - why people LOVE smaller cameras, and some of them - ( Olympus Pen - remove the flash from PEN F also ) - just choose to cut down features.


If something is "I TOOK IT EVERYWHERE" camera - I think it's a BIG fail to cut - the flash unit off.

For me - That makes no sense - and I'm saying that from a COMPANY perspective.

--
They cutting one really essential - usefull feature - just why exactly ? - TO HAVE LESS CUSTOMERS WHO WILL PURCHASE THE PRODUCT ?

--


I remember various companies who try to cut down - their - very good received products - and that was never ever good move to do. People always feel like the're be fooled, and they rather wait - or purchase something else.


I would never buy GR - just because I already have street camera(s) - and If today I'll be leaved without any - GR III would not be my choice.


( also I disliked fixed lens- I loved ZOOM GX 200, and only wide view is not a thing for me .
Street photography,

with only wide lens - push you into the situation you want to photograph - and then people see you, and you ruined everything )

--

Best of all volks , don't bother what panosnki is saying

Why write essays here then if you were not interested in buying one in the first place?

Don't you see a vast majority of people here are happy about the release? Or you think you are smarter than everyone else?

There are workarounds for the lack of flash, others already pointed that out. Hot shoe allows you to use a small flash in the situations where you need it. And Ibis and high iso performance of this sensor allows for much better images in low light than previous model, which means you'd need flash less at night.

Companies relealize that camera design is always a compromise. They wanted an even more pocket able camera, and they sacrificed flash for it, giving us other features to somewhat make it up for removing it.



---------- Post added 02-22-19 at 08:49 AM ----------

JUST BECAUSE - I'M ALLERGIC WHEN COMPANIES - DON'T LISTEN.
-
I was a long waited CAPLIO GX 200 succesor - which never came out.


--
They just ended it, iand it was such a wonderfull camera, so please to play, and use. ONE IN THE THOUSENDS - I choosed , and believe me - I'm not chooing anything over night, and before I red every review ojn the internet.

--
They made a mistake - I moved to Olympus PEN E-P5 ( another IT HAVE IT ALL camera ) .

--

So, essentially - I'm here just to inform them - if they'e reading.

You truly think Japanese bosses of ricoh are reading this forum?

[panonski]

Why write essays here then if you were not interested in buying one in the first place?

Don't you see a vast majority of people here are happy about the release? Or you think you are smarter than everyone else?

There are workarounds for the lack of flash, others already pointed that out. Hot shoe allows you to use a small flash in the situations where you need it. And Ibis and high iso performance of this sensor allows for much better images in low light than previous model, which means you'd need flash less at night.

Companies relealize that camera design is always a compromise. They wanted an even more pocket able camera, and they sacrificed flash for it, giving us other features to somewhat make it up for removing it.

I explained already.


Also I want to inform others - less experianced photographers - that lack of the flash can be essential, if they're planning to leave the house , just with ONE camera, fitted in the pocket.