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11-10-2018, 10:24 AM   #166
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QuoteOriginally posted by usernametaken Quote
Please (again) bear in mind the premise of the whole argument:

Someone suggested, a K-3 successor optimized for sports (competing with the D500) would be less attractive for other types of photographers. I was actually just saying that a better AF (which I think "optimized for sports" means) wouldn't mean that other areas wouldn't benefit from that.

Thank you.
It isn’t just “the AF”. To justify a competitive Action AF algorithm, aside from coding the ‘optimized for sports/action’ algorithm, they’d need camera with a new PDAF AF sensor, 12fps shutter, 20Mp sensor, faster jpeg engine, higher capacity bus, and UHS-III. The camera is the key. They’ll likely never release such a camera, so the investment in the specific sports/action coding would be wasted. If the rest of the camera can’t use the improvement it isn’t worth doing the work.

Besides, they don’t have enough lenses to use the capability if they built the camera.

11-10-2018, 12:50 PM - 2 Likes   #167
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
and UHS-III.
According to Sony executive Kenji Tanaka

"Memory card performance is related to image processing speed. Right now, processing speed is slower than SD UHS-II, so using SD is OK. But in the future, for example in any camera with 8K/30p video, SD won’t be enough. But for right now, SD is OK. "

USH-III isnt need it now, eventually it will be but that will take some time until the processing speed catch up.

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
If the rest of the camera can’t use the improvement it isn’t worth doing the work.
He also said reffering to the A9, and is kind of the same as you are wrote

".. the stacked image sensor in the Alpha 9 is kind of like the engine in a formula 1 car. If you only had the engine, the car wouldn’t work. You also need good tires, a good chassis, and a good driver to control the machine."
11-10-2018, 02:17 PM   #168
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QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
According to Sony executive Kenji Tanaka

"Memory card performance is related to image processing speed. Right now, processing speed is slower than SD UHS-II, so using SD is OK. But in the future, for example in any camera with 8K/30p video, SD won’t be enough. But for right now, SD is OK. "

USH-III isnt need it now, eventually it will be but that will take some time until the processing speed catch up.
Yes, I keep hoping the delay in releasing a K-3ii replacement is caused by issues related to their working in a new processor.
11-10-2018, 04:02 PM   #169
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Yes, I keep hoping the delay in releasing a K-3ii replacement is caused by issues related to their working in a new processor.
The tease of something from Samsung we heard about awhile back has kept me wondering what is brewing. Despite all the FUD we hear, I think Ricoh has a few things close to release of interest around the corner.

11-10-2018, 05:43 PM   #170
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QuoteOriginally posted by usernametaken Quote
Please (again) bear in mind the premise of the whole argument:

Someone suggested, a K-3 successor optimized for sports (competing with the D500) would be less attractive for other types of photographers. I was actually just saying that a better AF (which I think "optimized for sports" means) wouldn't mean that other areas wouldn't benefit from that.

Thank you.
And that's actually a pretty good point. However, with the K-1 out, and the K-P for landscape, maybe it's time for the K-3 successor to take that step in any case. Even dialing back to 20 MP to increase buffer depth and image throughput could be something. There are a lot of ways they could go. Sports action is the one weakness of the Pentax line at the moment. I would be easier to bump up the specs on a 20 or 24 MP APS_c camera and from K-S2 and comments from other users of 20-24 MP gear, those shooters for the most part consider that to be good for that type of image. My wife's K-5 16MP images are still so good I find it hard to believe a 20 MP action camera wouldn't be a hit if it had good AF tracking a deep buffer and improved throughput. Once that's done all that Pentax would need to be addressed would be video, to be completely mainstream.

And the issue with the video right now is Pentax doesn't have access to a 4k video sensor.
11-10-2018, 05:45 PM   #171
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QuoteOriginally posted by OoKU Quote
Ricoh ruined Pentax
Seems like a strange comment coming from you OoKU! Red Herring maybe?
11-10-2018, 06:08 PM   #172
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QuoteOriginally posted by BROO Quote
Seems like a strange comment coming from you OoKU! Red Herring maybe?
Dealers need products to sell. No new products, no new sales.

.:

11-10-2018, 06:22 PM   #173
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Dealers need products to sell. No new products, no new sales.
Unless new-to-the-brand customers can be attracted.
11-11-2018, 12:37 AM   #174
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Dealers need products to sell. No new products, no new sales.
It doesn't work this way. The shop were I bought the K1, didn't source the KP, nor the K1 mark II, they said that the K1 mark doesn't offer enough improvements so that they can justify the price to customers. And they said that the KP doesn't offer enough size reduction compared to the Fuji and Sony X models, so when a customer is coming from DSLR looking to downsize his kit, they offer Sony and Fuji. The shops have limited shelf space, they craft their offering so that it best address customer concerns. When Ricoh will roll out the GRIII then maybe the shop will source it because the size advantage is more significant then most other camera they already offer. So in fact, releasing products without unique selling proposition is a waste of time and money, and the less differentiation a product has the more effort it require to convince dealer to sell it. It's in this forum that customers assume that the flux of new products is what trigger sales, well, doing this way not necessarily pays off.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 11-11-2018 at 12:45 AM.
11-11-2018, 02:32 AM - 2 Likes   #175
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Of course it works that way, having new products is a necessary (but not sufficient) condition.
And the store that doesn't want to sell Pentax have their interests in mind. I would be surprised if the more compact Sony and Fuji wouldn't be aggressively pushing their products, offering commissions etc.
11-11-2018, 03:31 AM   #176
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QuoteOriginally posted by OoKU Quote
Q→APSC→FF→645→WG→Theta→GR, seven product lines strictly only released a new product of the DFA*50/1.4 in year of 2018.
Ricoh ruined Pentax.
My take on this comment is "Watch out for 2019- Ricoh revives Pentax!"
Surely?

Last edited by BROO; 11-11-2018 at 03:48 AM.
11-11-2018, 04:01 AM   #177
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In many of these discussions wildlife/sports and landscape seem to be the only types of photography out there. I imagine these are actually minority pursuits. I can't imagine very many doing what Norms friends are doing in those photos. (I grew with a birdwatching wildlife conservation father so I now the activity) Same goes for landscape photography in the proper sense.

What did people photograph with their analogue slr's with 50mm lenses? That's still what most people do and it's not lesser photography. Most of our masters worked with that type of content. People, places, parties. Naturally phones have taken a lot of that market but proper cameras still have quite the edge in terms of quality and creative possibilities. Fuji, one of the few doing well, market their gear more towards this reportage, lifestyle, art type buyer.

Pentax apsc have a shot in this territory. Mirrorless have advantages due to size that will be hard to compete with however.
11-11-2018, 04:02 AM   #178
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Pentax has a number of products that should be updated. They should have a dual slot APS-C camera with fast frame rate and decent buffer size. Does it have to be a D500 killer? Of course not, but an upper end APS-C camera with better specs than a K-P is a product that people would buy. The question is what else Pentax will put into such a product and what updated sensors are available. Do they bite the bullet and actually stick 4K video in it? Can they improve AF-C a bit and share the tech between this and the full frame cameras that are apparently to be released next year? Are they planning to update the 645Z? How about the K70?

I think that Pentax is actually saving stuff that they are working on for next year and as usual, I expect there to be sharing of technology across camera bodies.

As for the whole discussion about auto focus, it is neither here nor there. I think a lot of the people who complain about auto focus have not tried it with newest DC motor driven lenses. That really does make a difference. If you are shooting older screw driven/SDM lenses, don't expect auto focus tracking to improve very much, regardless of the body. That said, there is room for improvement in auto focus along with a number of other areas and Pentax can and will make gear to fill some of these holes. I do think next year is going to be a big one for Pentax. Will it make Pentaxians happy forever? Probably not -- we tend to be a gloomy bunch -- but at least for a month or two we'll be a wee bit more cheerful (or maybe just less gloomy)...

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
We need to be careful of what lesson we learn from a given situation. In the case of Olympus, are their sales flagging because
(1) they introduced only one new model last year?
(2) they produce only MILC?
(3) as cost of sensors drops, smaller sensors are becoming less popular?

The people of Pentax are studying all the market trends, looking across multiple companies. That may be why they have have been more reticent than usual - their understanding may be shifting as the market seems to shift.
I think the issue is that cameras have gone up scale over the last year or two. Most brands are selling fewer cameras, but making more money on them. The problem, as I see it, is that people don't really want to pay 1400 or 1500 dollars for a micro four thirds camera when they can spend a similar amount and get a camera with a bigger sensor. Not saying its right or wrong, but a K-1 II sells for a similar price to the OMD EM 1 MK II (how do they name these things?) and if you aren't already invested in micro four thirds, I don't know why you would end up going that direction versus one of the other brands with either an APS-C or full frame sensor.

Edit: I think it is important to note that I don't think that micro four thirds is going away. I just think that Olympus has sort of maxed out what they can do with that size sensor and may have difficulty both attracting new users and getting their current photographers to upgrade as fast as they have in the past. This certainly could spur them to add a larger size sensor and a different mount. Even APS-C has slowed a bit and only Fuji seems to be generating top end new cameras in this sensor size.

Last edited by Rondec; 11-11-2018 at 06:00 AM.
11-11-2018, 06:00 AM - 1 Like   #179
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
In many of these discussions wildlife/sports and landscape seem to be the only types of photography out there

Probably only on the Pentax forums discussion threads. But if you look at the posted images, the 300 plus club is one of the most popular. And the macro and bokeh threads are pretty popular as well. I'm not sure people even look at DSLRs unless they have some kind of specialty requirement. The most enthusiastic are those doing things you can't do with your phone, not everyone, but for the most part.

It's funny how with other brands, you don't have fast AF because you can't afford it or don't value it enough to pay for it. On the Pentax forum, you don't have fast AF because Pentax isn't good at it.(It's Pentax's fault."

Folks, you don't have better AF because you can't afford it. And if you could you'd have it. And people like me who have looked at what action cameras cost, and decided it's not worth it for the amount of action shooting we do are scratching our heads about the endless repeating of this as if it was to be a deciding factor in every camera purchase. It's just not. It's simply more important to some to have the dynamic range and resolution of a K-1, than it is to have the reduced resolution, of a 1DX, A9, D500 or D750.

When I bought my K-1 I decided not to buy that kind of camera. I had a choice. So many people are acting like they don't. Just buy what you need. Quit complaining about Pentax AF. It is what it is, if it doesn't meet your needs, buy something else. But don't listen to forum experts to decide what you need. Go out and shoot. Let what you want to shoot and how you want to shoot it help decide what you need. There is no reading opinions on the internet that can help you understand your shooting needs as much as just going out and shooting with what you have will. Those people complaining about Pentax AF are stuck in some kind of rut, and just trying to drag you in with them.

Last edited by normhead; 11-11-2018 at 07:30 AM.
11-11-2018, 06:24 AM   #180
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
In many of these discussions wildlife/sports and landscape seem to be the only types of photography out there. I imagine these are actually minority pursuits. I can't imagine very many doing what Norms friends are doing in those photos. (I grew with a birdwatching wildlife conservation father so I now the activity) Same goes for landscape photography in the proper sense.

What did people photograph with their analogue slr's with 50mm lenses? That's still what most people do and it's not lesser photography. Most of our masters worked with that type of content. People, places, parties. Naturally phones have taken a lot of that market but proper cameras still have quite the edge in terms of quality and creative possibilities. Fuji, one of the few doing well, market their gear more towards this reportage, lifestyle, art type buyer.

Pentax apsc have a shot in this territory. Mirrorless have advantages due to size that will be hard to compete with however.
Long lenses are something that ILCs have over phone cameras and will for the foreseeable future. It isn't surprising that this is mentioned in a lot of threads -- particularly when people think about a sequel to the K3 II.
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