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10-05-2018, 03:09 PM - 4 Likes   #46
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So you shoot a 40-year-old defunct film mount, a mount that sells 5,000 Units a year and believe K-mount doesn’t meet your single needs. Therefore Pentax should abandon (or redirect precious development resources from)‘the only distinctive feature of its entire system and align with an external mount controlled by some other company, and this decision will cause Pentax to thrive?

I’m skeptical. Far better you should shoot a specialty action camera and leave K-mount for the current user profile.
QuoteOriginally posted by Kiwi110Auto Quote
I shoot 3 different Pentax mounts, Auto 110, K & 645 and honestly, i shoot the Auto 110 & 645s more than my K mount camera because the K mount doesnt offer what i need as i also use digital in m43 mount. Would i shoot K mount digital, sure if it offered what i need in a camera, I shoot a lot of sport, motor racing & airshows, and for the last 2 especially, burst rate is needed, and i cant get what i need from K mount cameras. IF Pentax were to try again with a FF K mount Mirrorless, they would need to look at the Sony A7III as a MINIMUM for specs & pricing to just keep up. Also, in terms of lens support, yes the new Pentax lenses are fantastic, but Tamron & Sigma especially with their latest G2 & Global vision lenses, the K mounts are way down the bottom of the list when it comes to priority.
I think Pentax should look at maybe joining the Leica/Panny/Sigma Alliance, while still working with K mount, but the L mount would be a nice follow on and option since Sigma will develop native L mount lenses, plus the Leica glass & Panny Leica glass


10-05-2018, 03:21 PM - 1 Like   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kiwi110Auto Quote
I shoot 3 different Pentax mounts, Auto 110, K & 645 and honestly, i shoot the Auto 110 & 645s more than my K mount camera because the K mount doesnt offer what i need as i also use digital in m43 mount. Would i shoot K mount digital, sure if it offered what i need in a camera, I shoot a lot of sport, motor racing & airshows, and for the last 2 especially, burst rate is needed,

.......

I think Pentax should look at maybe joining the Leica/Panny/Sigma Alliance, while still working with K mount, but the L mount would be a nice follow on and option since Sigma will develop native L mount lenses, plus the Leica glass & Panny Leica glass
I don't understand how switching to an unfamiliar {to their engineers) mount could possibly get you faster burst rate.
10-06-2018, 12:31 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kiwi110Auto Quote
I shoot 3 different Pentax mounts, Auto 110, K & 645 and honestly, i shoot the Auto 110 & 645s more than my K mount camera because the K mount doesnt offer what i need as i also use digital in m43 mount. Would i shoot K mount digital, sure if it offered what i need in a camera, I shoot a lot of sport, motor racing & airshows, and for the last 2 especially, burst rate is needed, and i cant get what i need from K mount cameras. IF Pentax were to try again with a FF K mount Mirrorless, they would need to look at the Sony A7III as a MINIMUM for specs & pricing to just keep up. Also, in terms of lens support, yes the new Pentax lenses are fantastic, but Tamron & Sigma especially with their latest G2 & Global vision lenses, the K mounts are way down the bottom of the list when it comes to priority.
I think Pentax should look at maybe joining the Leica/Panny/Sigma Alliance, while still working with K mount, but the L mount would be a nice follow on and option since Sigma will develop native L mount lenses, plus the Leica glass & Panny Leica glass
I don't think Pentax should change the K-mount. I think they should improve on the AFC and also improve the focusing of their lenses. AF is a double edge problem involving Camera bodies and lenses. The 55-300 PLM is a perfect example. It can give you outright fast and accurate focusing. I wish they'd use whatever focusing technology it has on the new lenses.
10-06-2018, 03:16 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Sure, but aren't you richer than you would have been if you had to chase every new version of Sony's full frame mirrorless cameras?

Less poor at any rate, I agree.

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
The point of the statement is that if your contentment hangs on having the latest things, you'd have purchased a K-3, then a K-3ii; right now you'd have that much less money and be unhappy because Ricoh hasn't provided you with a way to keep spending money, and your recent images would be just marginally better; if your goal was better images, the path to much better images would be to spend that money on learning to use your equipment better - that knowledge would be yours the rest of your life, not just the few years you would have had a K-3 instead of a K-5.
Thanks for the detailed interpretation!

10-07-2018, 12:50 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
So you shoot a 40-year-old defunct film mount, a mount that sells 5,000 Units a year and believe K-mount doesn’t meet your single needs. Therefore Pentax should abandon (or redirect precious development resources from)‘the only distinctive feature of its entire system and align with an external mount controlled by some other company, and this decision will cause Pentax to thrive?

I’m skeptical. Far better you should shoot a specialty action camera and leave K-mount for the current user profile.
Yes i shoot a miniature film format for fun, and its easy to take away for trips where space is a premium and it is discreet as heck, the 645 i use for landscape and portraits, my ME Super, currently being used by a friend because I wasn't using it, and my friend wanted to shoot film.
M43 suits my needs because the gear is small, light weight, which when riding mountain bikes 5 miles into a rally stage, or spending days at airshows is a major plus, yet still delivers excellent AF, i can shoot @ 10+ fps plus excellent video. Can Pentax offer me that, not yet, am i hopeful, you bet.
But to shoot an 'Action Camera' would not suit me, because by definition an 'action camera' would be a goPro type camera. A better definition would be a system that is sport orientated, which M43 is.

---------- Post added 10-07-18 at 12:55 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I don't understand how switching to an unfamiliar {to their engineers) mount could possibly get you faster burst rate.
Its not just about the burst rate, going to what is becoming an Open system, in that Leica have said they would love more partners and users of the system, offers better support for the mount in that you have multiple manufacturers making lenses, and if you have several different companies producing bodies, it will aid development of the system in the bodies, so AF performance etc will get improved because more people are developing around the specification of the Lens mount.
If it was easy to use a current mount on a mirrorless system, would Canon and Nikon not have stuck to their mounts for their new systems, you can bet your last dollar they would have, but no, they had to develop a new lens mount, and develop adapters for users to use their legacy mounts.
10-07-2018, 01:26 PM - 2 Likes   #51
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And what does Pentax get out of an open system? There are plenty of m43 options and they seem to suit your needs. Nothing about MILC in general or m43 suits me. How will I be served by an open platform Pentax?

It’s a self-centered analysis that would end Pentax altogether.
10-07-2018, 01:48 PM - 1 Like   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kiwi110Auto Quote
Its not just about the burst rate, going to what is becoming an Open system, in that Leica have said they would love more partners and users of the system, offers better support for the mount in that you have multiple manufacturers making lenses, and if you have several different companies producing bodies, it will aid development of the system in the bodies, so AF performance etc will get improved because more people are developing around the specification of the Lens mount.
If it was easy to use a current mount on a mirrorless system, would Canon and Nikon not have stuck to their mounts for their new systems, you can bet your last dollar they would have, but no, they had to develop a new lens mount, and develop adapters for users to use their legacy mounts.
How does Pentax gain from an Open System? Their lens engineers are tied down designing an adapter to allow people to use K-mount lenses they already have, while Sigma engineers are designing more expensive lenses that would soak up most of the Pentax-owner money.

10-07-2018, 06:24 PM - 1 Like   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
How does Pentax gain from an Open System? Their lens engineers are tied down designing an adapter to allow people to use K-mount lenses they already have, while Sigma engineers are designing more expensive lenses that would soak up most of the Pentax-owner money.
I am stunned by the closed minded thinking of fellow Pentaxians, The open system gives Pentax engineers an established communication protocol, lens mount, flange distance to start from, It gives Pentax a chance to not have to figure out all that critical stuff and burn R&D Dollars to launch a mirrorless system, does not mean that Pentax Engineers are 'Tied down designing an adapter' only, sure they can develop an adapter, but also develop bodies, lenses with known points of reference to start with. It gives Pentax owners a chance to use other lenses on launch instead of having to wait for ages after a new model is launched for the KAF mount version to be developed.

The negativity over such an idea is astounding
10-07-2018, 06:34 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kiwi110Auto Quote
I am stunned by the closed minded thinking of fellow Pentaxians, The open system gives Pentax engineers an established communication protocol, lens mount, flange distance to start from, It gives Pentax a chance to not have to figure out all that critical stuff and burn R&D Dollars to launch a mirrorless system, does not mean that Pentax Engineers are 'Tied down designing an adapter' only, sure they can develop an adapter, but also develop bodies, lenses with known points of reference to start with. It gives Pentax owners a chance to use other lenses on launch instead of having to wait for ages after a new model is launched for the KAF mount version to be developed.

The negativity over such an idea is astounding
Pentax could launch a new MILC system using K-mount!
They don't need another mount.
They don't need to provide another body to use lenses made by someone else.
10-08-2018, 01:16 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kiwi110Auto Quote
I am stunned by the closed minded thinking of fellow Pentaxians, The open system gives Pentax engineers an established communication protocol, lens mount, flange distance to start from, It gives Pentax a chance to not have to figure out all that critical stuff and burn R&D Dollars to launch a mirrorless system, does not mean that Pentax Engineers are 'Tied down designing an adapter' only, sure they can develop an adapter, but also develop bodies, lenses with known points of reference to start with. It gives Pentax owners a chance to use other lenses on launch instead of having to wait for ages after a new model is launched for the KAF mount version to be developed.

The negativity over such an idea is astounding
Being closed minded and not accepting any idea without questioning are very different things. By the way, insults are not an argument.

What will help them - not having to launch several lenses at once - should also be seen as fierce competition, and of the worst kind - internal (in-system) competition.

Designing a mount is not an issue; they did several to date, they can do another one. Making a camera should not be particularly more difficult than a new DSLR.

Last edited by Kunzite; 10-08-2018 at 12:28 PM. Reason: missing a 'not'
10-08-2018, 09:57 PM - 2 Likes   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Pentax could launch a new MILC system using K-mount!
They don't need another mount.
They don't need to provide another body to use lenses made by someone else.
Why be technologically tied to a 40 year old mount?

Guess what, in this day and age, unless they have the megabucks of a Sony, Canon or Panasonic, the smaller companies will struggle to survive. Hell Ricoh have done NOTHING really with Pentax, so few models, they lag massively in tech to keep things competitive. I work in retail photographics, I sell cameras for a living, and despite picking up Pentax cameras first time if someone comes in looking for a DSLR, 90 out of every hundred, will by either a Canon, Olympus or Sony, the other times, i might get 1 sale in 100 for a Pentax and the other 9 are all Fujis, why, because Pentax are not seen as a progressive company, they are seen as stuck in their legacy. Heck Nikon have moved from their massive legacy F mount for their new MILC system, so has Canon, and between those 2 companies there are nearly 200 million lenses out in the market place so to say that just use a legacy mount for a MILC, it obviously does not work.
I LOVE my Pentax's and i would love nothing more than a nice fresh MILC system to come out, but guess what, the market place is only so large, and that pie only goes so far, so to be stuck using a legacy system to try and compete in a modern market would destroy Pentax i feel, IF they want to remain relevant they need to align themselves with a group or somehow catch up 5+ years of sensor and processor tech, 10 years of video tech, and launch a new mount that delivers something truly unique and must have without breaking the bank
10-09-2018, 12:30 AM - 3 Likes   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kiwi110Auto Quote
Why be technologically tied to a 40 year old mount?

Guess what, in this day and age, unless they have the megabucks of a Sony, Canon or Panasonic, the smaller companies will struggle to survive. Hell Ricoh have done NOTHING really with Pentax, so few models, they lag massively in tech to keep things competitive. I work in retail photographics, I sell cameras for a living, and despite picking up Pentax cameras first time if someone comes in looking for a DSLR, 90 out of every hundred, will by either a Canon, Olympus or Sony, the other times, i might get 1 sale in 100 for a Pentax and the other 9 are all Fujis, why, because Pentax are not seen as a progressive company, they are seen as stuck in their legacy. Heck Nikon have moved from their massive legacy F mount for their new MILC system, so has Canon, and between those 2 companies there are nearly 200 million lenses out in the market place so to say that just use a legacy mount for a MILC, it obviously does not work.
I LOVE my Pentax's and i would love nothing more than a nice fresh MILC system to come out, but guess what, the market place is only so large, and that pie only goes so far, so to be stuck using a legacy system to try and compete in a modern market would destroy Pentax i feel, IF they want to remain relevant they need to align themselves with a group or somehow catch up 5+ years of sensor and processor tech, 10 years of video tech, and launch a new mount that delivers something truly unique and must have without breaking the bank
I've read your opinion and since I also shoot mainly aviation photography we seem to have the same interests, but my philosophy is very different than yours.
I've shot M4/3 cameras and got great results in terms of AF performance and burst rate-buffer but you seem to not pay much attention to the results. What you get is images in the end and the IQ of the M4/3 sensors was mostly on par with my K-5IIs and often worst. So this system gives me nothing more than I had. I'm not interested in quantity of images. I have tsousands of aviation photos. When I bought my K-1 that was a whole new world that was opening up in front of me... I was amazed by the IQ and I can't (and don'teven want) explain this to people who haven't shot with the K-1 (or -mkII). Now that made the difference to me and it makes the difference to all those who see my pictures now. If you have selected to get the most pics in an airshow then the M4/3 or a D500, 7DII might be the best option for you. But not for anybody.

Now concerning the Pentax future and philosophy, all I want is to make the great K-1 even better in terms that lags behind competition and make another great APS-C with the same rational of the K-3. In other words stay at DSLR world and make the best FF and APS-C cameras they can give us. That is all I need and I see that this is the philosophy of Ricoh/Pentax as well, so I'm glad I'm their customer

PS: I'm preparing an article based on my experiences with Pentax (and mainly aviation photography), talking about all the pros and cons I have faced so far as objectively as I can

PS2: In order to be completely clear the question is couldn't I get the same IQ with Canonikon FF equipment? The answer is sure I could. But I have bought all my Pentax equipment for aviation photography in more or less half the price of a new 600/4 lens from these companies. If I had >20.000€ to spend or I was a pro getting his equipment for free I would shoot Nikon preferably or Canon, but I'm not one of these guys and Pentax gave me the chance to get similar results with its great gear! I'm grateful for that.

Last edited by redpit; 10-09-2018 at 12:40 AM.
10-09-2018, 08:31 AM - 2 Likes   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kiwi110Auto Quote
90 out of every hundred, will by either a Canon, Olympus or Sony, the other times, i might get 1 sale in 100 for a Pentax and the other 9 are all Fujis,
@Kiwi110Auto, I don't mean to pick nits, but I find it interesting that your store does not sell any Nikons, according to your statistics. Is this true or just an unintended omission in your post?

QuoteOriginally posted by Kiwi110Auto Quote
Ricoh have done NOTHING really with Pentax, so few models, they lag massively in tech to keep things competitive
It would benefit other readers here if you could expand on your claim about Ricoh having done nothing with Pentax. Would you give us examples of why you would discount several recent Pentax cameras and lenses? Not sure I am understanding your points.


In general, there's no disputing that several makers are pursuing mirrorless cameras and new lenses. I don't know whether or when DSLRs will disappear from the marketplace, and I can't predict the future for the Pentax brand. However, despite paying attention to the trends, commentaries, and reviews across the web, I have yet to come across a meaningful comparison of the image results that are obtainable with mirrorless cameras versus comparable DSLR cameras.

To return to the tone of the OP in this thread, the Pentax technology seems to produce wonderful results and can bring joy to those who shoot with it.

- Craig
10-09-2018, 08:44 AM - 1 Like   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kiwi110Auto Quote
Ricoh have done NOTHING really with Pentax, so few models, they lag massively in tech to keep things competitive.
Is your view of "tech" limited to mount? The difference between a K-30 and a K-70 body, or between a K-7 and a K-3ii body is meaningful.

added: and the 55-300 PLM KAF4 lens appears to give Pentax the kind of capability that attracted me to Canon twenty years ago; yes, that is behind Canon, but it is making progress.



QuoteOriginally posted by Kiwi110Auto Quote
I work in retail photographics, I sell cameras for a living, and despite picking up Pentax cameras first time if someone comes in looking for a DSLR... i might get 1 sale in 100 for a Pentax
If your attitude here reflects your attitude on the sales floor, I wonder why you don't sell more Pentaxes.


To return to the tone of the OP in this thread, Pentax technology does produce wonderful results and has brought joy to me since I switched from a Canon Rebel to a Pentax K-30.

Last edited by reh321; 10-09-2018 at 09:18 AM. Reason: comment about PLM
10-09-2018, 05:38 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
@Kiwi110Auto, I don't mean to pick nits, but I find it interesting that your store does not sell any Nikons, according to your statistics. Is this true or just an unintended omission in your post?



It would benefit other readers here if you could expand on your claim about Ricoh having done nothing with Pentax. Would you give us examples of why you would discount several recent Pentax cameras and lenses? Not sure I am understanding your points.


In general, there's no disputing that several makers are pursuing mirrorless cameras and new lenses. I don't know whether or when DSLRs will disappear from the marketplace, and I can't predict the future for the Pentax brand. However, despite paying attention to the trends, commentaries, and reviews across the web, I have yet to come across a meaningful comparison of the image results that are obtainable with mirrorless cameras versus comparable DSLR cameras.

To return to the tone of the OP in this thread, the Pentax technology seems to produce wonderful results and can bring joy to those who shoot with it.

- Craig
We sell less Nikon than Pentax. That is changing a little now their Z series is coming i have had enquiries about them.
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