Miscellaneous development at Ricoh Imaging

**monochrome** · 10-02-2018, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by BROO

Pentax are trying to improve manual focus capabilities through the viewfinder. This is one big advantage of EVF designs. You can use focus peaking. Currently we can only use focus peaking on the rear display. So they are trying a few things.

That actually makes sense.

**FozzFoster** · 10-02-2018, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by BROO

Pentax Rumors has an interesting article about a newly patented focusing screen.

????????????????????????J-PlatPat

This is awesome news!

A new focus screen for...? please be K-3 replacement!

**BigMackCam** · 10-02-2018, 03:16 PM - **4 Likes**

Originally posted by beachgardener

If they get rid of OVF I'll go back to film cameras.

Originally posted by BigMackCam

That's the thing - a hybrid viewfinder wouldn't be "getting rid of OVF" - it would be adding to it, only with the information and capabilities you want or need, when you want or need them (which might be never)...

Further to this...

If the next Pentax camera has massively improved video, which is of no use to me whatsoever, that won't make me sell my cameras and go back to film. That's just something I won't use. If it means an extra $500 dollars on the price for that video capability, I won't be delighted, exactly... but if I get a great camera with all the additional benefits of progress, I can live with that. I just won't switch to video mode

**beachgardener** · 10-02-2018, 03:37 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by BROO

Why don't you just keep the camera that you have?

I would, use what I can in the K3, K5 line, but after that?

Originally posted by BigMackCam

you're happy to use Live View

very rarely use Live view, if at all.

**BigMackCam** · 10-02-2018, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by beachgardener

very rarely use Live view, if at all.

Right. So I can see very limited benefit for you with a hybrid viewfinder, except for the optical-only element of it and EVF element disabled.

Of course... you bought a camera with Live View and rarely use that feature, if at all. Maybe if Pentax cameras end up with hybrid viewfinders, you might use the OVF almost exclusively, and rarely use the EVF overlay...Or you might go ME Super all the way

I'm pulling your leg, but I hope you can see what I mean, even if you don't agree with me

**beachgardener** · 10-02-2018, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by BigMackCam

I'm pulling your leg, but I hope you can see what I mean, even if you don't agree with it

Oh yes I'm fully aware, I just don't want to depart from OVF.

BROO · 10-02-2018, 03:52 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by beachgardener

Oh yes I'm fully aware, I just don't want to depart from OVF.

I think this is just an add on feature to OVF. No need to worry.

**BigMackCam** · 10-02-2018, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by BROO

I think this is just an add on feature to OVF. No need to worry.

Bingo

**alfa75ts** · 10-02-2018, 04:09 PM - **8 Likes**

This may help some visualise what the patent proposes.

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The red object we will call a projector, it might be fairly basic like the focus point overlay it replaces or it might be capable of projecting the same image as the rear LCD.

The blue objects are mirrors.

The green object is a lens.

The purple object is a triangular prism.

Note, the only time it could be an EVF is in live view (ie. with the mirror up)

MarkJerling · 10-02-2018, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by alfa75ts

This may help some visualise what the patent proposes.

Attachment 425753

The red object we will call a projector, it might be fairly basic like the focus point overlay it replaces or it might be capable of projecting the same image as the rear LCD.

The blue objects are mirrors.

The green object is a lens.

The purple object is a triangular prism.

Note, the only time it could be an EVF is in live view (ie. with the mirror up)

Oh, very cunning indeed. Thanks for doing the composite image. Very clever!

surfar · 10-02-2018, 10:57 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by BigMackCam

I just won't switch to video mode

I will!

---------- Post added 10-03-18 at 04:59 PM ----------

Originally posted by BigMackCam

If the next Pentax camera has massively improved video,

Lets hope so!

xmeda · 10-03-2018, 12:25 AM - **1 Like**

I wanted this years ago.. proposed several times on forums and also in pentax survey. Hope they will finish that as usable equipment. It will cure disadvantages of both OVF and EVF..

Andrea K · 10-03-2018, 01:06 AM

Originally posted by alfa75ts

Note, the only time it could be an EVF is in live view (ie. with the mirror up)

It is for this reason that, if I understand correctly, they also speak of a real magnifying glass to be activated in the viewfinder

repaap · 10-03-2018, 01:25 AM

Seems really interesting!

**alfa75ts** · 10-03-2018, 01:50 AM

Originally posted by Andrea K

It is for this reason that, if I understand correctly, they also speak of a real magnifying glass to be activated in the viewfinder

Basically the patent relates to projecting an image within the optical viewfinder either as an overlay or an EVF.

The sections relating to magnification seem to cover the existing lenses between the eyepiece and the prism (3 lens group) and the need to make the projected image big enough.

They actually present three different ways of doing this using different arrangements of mirrors/prisms. I have only shown one in the image above.

And I said the EVF can only be used in live view because otherwise the mirror still covers the sensor.

You could still project a lot more than at present such as menus, info screen, focus points that turn green with focus lock etc etc.

10-02-2018, 04:09 PM - 8 Likes	#39
alfa75ts Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Melbourne Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,356	This may help some visualise what the patent proposes. The red object we will call a projector, it might be fairly basic like the focus point overlay it replaces or it might be capable of projecting the same image as the rear LCD. The blue objects are mirrors. The green object is a lens. The purple object is a triangular prism. Note, the only time it could be an EVF is in live view (ie. with the mirror up)

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10-02-2018, 03:11 PM	#31
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by BROO Pentax are trying to improve manual focus capabilities through the viewfinder. This is one big advantage of EVF designs. You can use focus peaking. Currently we can only use focus peaking on the rear display. So they are trying a few things. That actually makes sense.

10-02-2018, 03:14 PM	#32
FozzFoster Custom User Title Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Alberta Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by BROO Pentax Rumors has an interesting article about a newly patented focusing screen. ????????????????????????J-PlatPat This is awesome news! A new focus screen for...? please be K-3 replacement!

10-02-2018, 03:16 PM - 4 Likes	#33
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,670	Originally posted by beachgardener If they get rid of OVF I'll go back to film cameras. Originally posted by BigMackCam That's the thing - a hybrid viewfinder wouldn't be "getting rid of OVF" - it would be adding to it, only with the information and capabilities you want or need, when you want or need them (which might be never)... Further to this... If the next Pentax camera has massively improved video, which is of no use to me whatsoever, that won't make me sell my cameras and go back to film. That's just something I won't use. If it means an extra $500 dollars on the price for that video capability, I won't be delighted, exactly... but if I get a great camera with all the additional benefits of progress, I can live with that. I just won't switch to video mode

10-02-2018, 03:37 PM - 1 Like	#34
beachgardener Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,842	Originally posted by BROO Why don't you just keep the camera that you have? I would, use what I can in the K3, K5 line, but after that? Originally posted by BigMackCam you're happy to use Live View very rarely use Live view, if at all.

10-02-2018, 03:45 PM	#35
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,670	Originally posted by beachgardener very rarely use Live view, if at all. Right. So I can see very limited benefit for you with a hybrid viewfinder, except for the optical-only element of it and EVF element disabled. Of course... you bought a camera with Live View and rarely use that feature, if at all. Maybe if Pentax cameras end up with hybrid viewfinders, you might use the OVF almost exclusively, and rarely use the EVF overlay...Or you might go ME Super all the way I'm pulling your leg, but I hope you can see what I mean, even if you don't agree with me

10-02-2018, 03:47 PM	#36
beachgardener Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,842	Originally posted by BigMackCam I'm pulling your leg, but I hope you can see what I mean, even if you don't agree with it Oh yes I'm fully aware, I just don't want to depart from OVF.

10-02-2018, 03:52 PM - 1 Like	#37
BROO Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 655	Originally posted by beachgardener Oh yes I'm fully aware, I just don't want to depart from OVF. I think this is just an add on feature to OVF. No need to worry.

10-02-2018, 03:57 PM	#38
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,670	Originally posted by BROO I think this is just an add on feature to OVF. No need to worry. Bingo

10-02-2018, 05:37 PM	#40
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,406	Originally posted by alfa75ts This may help some visualise what the patent proposes. Attachment 425753 The red object we will call a projector, it might be fairly basic like the focus point overlay it replaces or it might be capable of projecting the same image as the rear LCD. The blue objects are mirrors. The green object is a lens. The purple object is a triangular prism. Note, the only time it could be an EVF is in live view (ie. with the mirror up) Oh, very cunning indeed. Thanks for doing the composite image. Very clever!

10-02-2018, 10:57 PM - 1 Like	#41
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,141	Originally posted by BigMackCam I just won't switch to video mode I will! ---------- Post added 10-03-18 at 04:59 PM ---------- Originally posted by BigMackCam If the next Pentax camera has massively improved video, Lets hope so!

10-03-2018, 12:25 AM - 1 Like	#42
xmeda Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Brno Posts: 295	I wanted this years ago.. proposed several times on forums and also in pentax survey. Hope they will finish that as usable equipment. It will cure disadvantages of both OVF and EVF..

10-03-2018, 01:06 AM	#43
Andrea K Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Rome, Italy Posts: 822	Originally posted by alfa75ts Note, the only time it could be an EVF is in live view (ie. with the mirror up) It is for this reason that, if I understand correctly, they also speak of a real magnifying glass to be activated in the viewfinder

10-03-2018, 01:25 AM	#44
repaap Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,242	Seems really interesting!

10-03-2018, 01:50 AM	#45
alfa75ts Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Melbourne Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,356	Originally posted by Andrea K It is for this reason that, if I understand correctly, they also speak of a real magnifying glass to be activated in the viewfinder Basically the patent relates to projecting an image within the optical viewfinder either as an overlay or an EVF. The sections relating to magnification seem to cover the existing lenses between the eyepiece and the prism (3 lens group) and the need to make the projected image big enough. They actually present three different ways of doing this using different arrangements of mirrors/prisms. I have only shown one in the image above. And I said the EVF can only be used in live view because otherwise the mirror still covers the sensor. You could still project a lot more than at present such as menus, info screen, focus points that turn green with focus lock etc etc.