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12-21-2018, 12:26 PM   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Oh, I seem to have missed this thread which has been going for a while? Just wanted to add a “hallelujah!” to the fact that the old hybrid VF rumor is still alive !
Hybrid VF talk is a result of a patent application - so that should be rated somewhat better than "rumor".

05-22-2019, 01:44 PM - 5 Likes   #122
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Something interesting (I think) surfaced today on ipforce.jp (I used google translate):

??6515452 | ???????IP Force?
Camera equipped with contrast AF function

"As described above, according to the present embodiment, in the single-lens reflex digital camera 10 having the photometric sensor 20A and the distance measuring sensor 18A, phase difference focus detection using the distance measuring sensor 18A and contrast using the photometric sensor 20A Formula focus detection can be selectively performed by user setting. Further, even in the case where phase difference type focus detection is set, it is possible to switch to contrast type focus detection when it is difficult to determine the in-focus state by the phase difference type focus detection for the subject characteristic and the subject area.

[0060]
By selectively setting two focus detection methods, it becomes possible to set focus detection methods suitable for various photographing situations. And since contrast type focus detection is performed using photometric sensor 20A provided in connection with exposure control, a problem of parallax does not occur. Furthermore, it is possible for the user to confirm an object image and its area in focus using the optical finder, and to perform contrast AF processing without discomfort while performing the same shooting operation as a conventional single-lens reflex camera. Can. Furthermore, since the photometric sensor 20A for detecting the brightness of the subject is used, it is not necessary to provide a circuit such as a new imaging element."

Basically, if I understand it right, Ricoh has put a small sensor inside the pentaprism housing that can perform contrast detect AF while user is using the OVF, and it can work somewhat alongside the standard PDAF module below the mirror.
05-22-2019, 02:15 PM   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by BarneyL Quote
Something interesting (I think) surfaced today on ipforce.jp (I used google translate):

??6515452 | ???????IP Force?
Camera equipped with contrast AF function

"As described above, according to the present embodiment, in the single-lens reflex digital camera 10 having the photometric sensor 20A and the distance measuring sensor 18A, phase difference focus detection using the distance measuring sensor 18A and contrast using the photometric sensor 20A Formula focus detection can be selectively performed by user setting. Further, even in the case where phase difference type focus detection is set, it is possible to switch to contrast type focus detection when it is difficult to determine the in-focus state by the phase difference type focus detection for the subject characteristic and the subject area.

[0060]
By selectively setting two focus detection methods, it becomes possible to set focus detection methods suitable for various photographing situations. And since contrast type focus detection is performed using photometric sensor 20A provided in connection with exposure control, a problem of parallax does not occur. Furthermore, it is possible for the user to confirm an object image and its area in focus using the optical finder, and to perform contrast AF processing without discomfort while performing the same shooting operation as a conventional single-lens reflex camera. Can. Furthermore, since the photometric sensor 20A for detecting the brightness of the subject is used, it is not necessary to provide a circuit such as a new imaging element."

Basically, if I understand it right, Ricoh has put a small sensor inside the pentaprism housing that can perform contrast detect AF while user is using the OVF, and it can work somewhat alongside the standard PDAF module below the mirror.
Nice find!
05-22-2019, 02:23 PM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by BarneyL Quote
Something interesting (I think) surfaced today on ipforce.jp (I used google translate):

??6515452 | ???????IP Force?
Camera equipped with contrast AF function

"As described above, according to the present embodiment, in the single-lens reflex digital camera 10 having the photometric sensor 20A and the distance measuring sensor 18A, phase difference focus detection using the distance measuring sensor 18A and contrast using the photometric sensor 20A Formula focus detection can be selectively performed by user setting. Further, even in the case where phase difference type focus detection is set, it is possible to switch to contrast type focus detection when it is difficult to determine the in-focus state by the phase difference type focus detection for the subject characteristic and the subject area.

[0060]
By selectively setting two focus detection methods, it becomes possible to set focus detection methods suitable for various photographing situations. And since contrast type focus detection is performed using photometric sensor 20A provided in connection with exposure control, a problem of parallax does not occur. Furthermore, it is possible for the user to confirm an object image and its area in focus using the optical finder, and to perform contrast AF processing without discomfort while performing the same shooting operation as a conventional single-lens reflex camera. Can. Furthermore, since the photometric sensor 20A for detecting the brightness of the subject is used, it is not necessary to provide a circuit such as a new imaging element."

Basically, if I understand it right, Ricoh has put a small sensor inside the pentaprism housing that can perform contrast detect AF while user is using the OVF, and it can work somewhat alongside the standard PDAF module below the mirror.
Very interesting - thanks for posting this!

I wonder if the intention is to provide either PD or CDAF at one time, or to optionally allow a combination of the two? If the latter, this approach could benefit from the speed of PD for the major part of the AF process, and accuracy of final adjustment from CD. Could be very nice indeed

05-22-2019, 02:54 PM - 3 Likes   #125
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Cool!

It looks like a logical extension of what they are already doing.

The K-1 currently has an 240x360 pixel RGB sensor for exposure metering. Obviously, that's too a low a resolution for CDAF (although 240x360 is offered by a "Professional DSLR" for $26 )

They could swap the current AE sensor for an off-the-shelf smartphone camera module of some megapickles that could easily be shoehorned into the pentaprism zone. That could enable CDAF as well as clever things like eye-AF, better tracking AF, a broader pattern of AF points, etc.

Why would Ricoh design an entirely new MILC system when you can get more and more of the supposed advantages of MILC in a DSLR?
05-22-2019, 03:10 PM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Cool!

It looks like a logical extension of what they are already doing.

The K-1 currently has an 240x360 pixel RGB sensor for exposure metering. Obviously, that's too a low a resolution for CDAF (although 240x360 is offered by a "Professional DSLR" for $26 )
LOL I'm about due for another photo shoot with that bad boy. You'll laugh on the other side of your hi-res raw files when you see the results, mark my words...

QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
They could swap the current AE sensor for an off-the-shelf smartphone camera module of some megapickles that could easily be shoehorned into the pentaprism zone. That could enable CDAF as well as clever things like eye-AF, better tracking AF, a broader pattern of AF points, etc.
When I first scanned this comment, I thought it might be tongue-in-cheek, but actually it's a perfect application for a small, high-resolution sensor. I don't quite understand how they could capture the majority of the field of view on that sensor without further optical assistance, but I'm sure that's just my stupidity. I'm definitely up for the concept.

QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Why would Ricoh design an entirely new MILC system when you can get more and more of the supposed advantages of MILC in a DSLR?
Registration distance, man - registration distance! I have a bunch of L39 and M39 Soviet lenses here screaming out for a Pentax body!!! Until then, I have to submit them to the shame of a Sony A7II

On balance, though, I'll take whatever Ricoh is developing. Happy with my Pentax gear, so any development is good development... and this sounds, potentially, great
05-22-2019, 05:47 PM   #127
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Interesting patent!
05-22-2019, 08:49 PM   #128
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it is an interesting development , I myself am awaiting for the 400 f2.8 auto focus patent....... but something may happen soon regarding that so stay tuned........ I have no confirmed information any 400 f2.8 autofocus lens from Ricoh/Pentax so you all will have to wait like me if Ricoh/Pentax decides to announce an upgraded version [autofocus] of the F 2.8 400....which in my opinion [possibly only my opinion] is the best lens Pentax ever made........... So before anyone wants to flame me, please tell everyone here on PF of your personal experience with the A* 400 f2.8....... and allow me to respond! I have used this lens since 1988. It is a spectacular lens, incredibly it gets better with age [ I can confirm MY experience only the K3-II], it was expensive when I purchased it new......
and still is expensive if you find one for sale as it should be for such a superb lens...

05-22-2019, 08:51 PM   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Cool!

It looks like a logical extension of what they are already doing.

The K-1 currently has an 240x360 pixel RGB sensor for exposure metering. Obviously, that's too a low a resolution for CDAF (although 240x360 is offered by a "Professional DSLR" for $26 )

They could swap the current AE sensor for an off-the-shelf smartphone camera module of some megapickles that could easily be shoehorned into the pentaprism zone. That could enable CDAF as well as clever things like eye-AF, better tracking AF, a broader pattern of AF points, etc.

Why would Ricoh design an entirely new MILC system when you can get more and more of the supposed advantages of MILC in a DSLR?
The major reason I use LV is framing/focusing photos under low light - the great photos I get under high ISO would be so much better if I could see in the viewfinder what I have to go to hand-held LCD for {before you mention "tripod", I should add that I never have had the time needed to go and get it out of the closet}.
05-22-2019, 09:06 PM   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by BarneyL Quote
Something interesting (I think) surfaced today on ipforce.jp (I used google translate):

??6515452 | ???????IP Force?
Camera equipped with contrast AF function
2 thumbs up for you, BarneyL
This is a very interesting development.
05-22-2019, 09:36 PM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by Danas_Anis Quote
That's how it goes when the company tries to be super secretive, if they released controlled rumors, most eyes would be on those rumors, but now curiosity leads to all available information sources everywhere. Meaning every fart is being counted and examined
As if every other camera maker and related optical device maker doesn’t have a legion of patent attorneys scanning every filing every day to learn what their competition is up to. Sometimes these filings are tactical - meant to preclud some competitor from going down a path even though the filing company does not intend to ever implement the device or process.

They’re probably not intentionally secretive. More likely that they don’t want to arrest sales of existing inventory until they have a finished product and production schedule committed; or they don’t want to make promises they might not be able to keep.

Last edited by monochrome; 05-23-2019 at 12:03 AM.
05-22-2019, 11:44 PM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by BarneyL Quote
Something interesting (I think) surfaced today on ipforce.jp (I used google translate):

??6515452 | ???????IP Force?
Camera equipped with contrast AF function

"As described above, according to the present embodiment, in the single-lens reflex digital camera 10 having the photometric sensor 20A and the distance measuring sensor 18A, phase difference focus detection using the distance measuring sensor 18A and contrast using the photometric sensor 20A Formula focus detection can be selectively performed by user setting. Further, even in the case where phase difference type focus detection is set, it is possible to switch to contrast type focus detection when it is difficult to determine the in-focus state by the phase difference type focus detection for the subject characteristic and the subject area.

[0060]
By selectively setting two focus detection methods, it becomes possible to set focus detection methods suitable for various photographing situations. And since contrast type focus detection is performed using photometric sensor 20A provided in connection with exposure control, a problem of parallax does not occur. Furthermore, it is possible for the user to confirm an object image and its area in focus using the optical finder, and to perform contrast AF processing without discomfort while performing the same shooting operation as a conventional single-lens reflex camera. Can. Furthermore, since the photometric sensor 20A for detecting the brightness of the subject is used, it is not necessary to provide a circuit such as a new imaging element."

Basically, if I understand it right, Ricoh has put a small sensor inside the pentaprism housing that can perform contrast detect AF while user is using the OVF, and it can work somewhat alongside the standard PDAF module below the mirror.
Very interesting. And, the invention allows for face detection AF. Cunning.
05-25-2019, 12:06 PM   #133
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Perhaps I'm missing something but wouldn't this introduce further tolerance/calibration issues with af? The contrast detect is not on the actual sensor but on a secondary one meaning there's alignment that could go wrong?

I really like the idea of developing new tech for the ovf. Hopefully we'll see it in production and it working well.
05-25-2019, 12:23 PM   #134
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I think what will matter the most in the end, is how quickly that combined OVF type PDAF-CDAF will work, and how will that improve subject tracking performance. Obviously, it's difficult to expect AF point coverage similar to PDAF based MILC, but if it bridged the gap compared to other current DSLRs, that would be great.
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