[BROO]

It may be a way of projecting the overlay and using a focusing screen at the same time?

[H.Abendsen]

This may help some visualise what the patent proposes.

Attachment 425753

...

hm... looks nice. Thanks for the illu.

I really hope you are right and we aint talking about some fantasy construct we fancied out of what we want to see in this patent.

Note, the only time it could be an EVF is in live view (ie. with the mirror up)

This would be totally satisfying for me, since if the upcoming DSLR cameras would just use sensors with on-sensor PDAF+CF which already have been in use in good MILC cameras,
then Ricoh-Imaging would not have to order custom sensors for the cams...
and the sensors would offer very, very good AF and most likely very good AF.C for Video in this LIVE-VIEW(or EVF) mode.
pop in a good next-gen AF-module also with app. 80 AF-points... and cameras with this system would offer the best of both worlds...!

But i would already be happy with an a real good AF-module in a classical DSLR.
But hey, lets see if Ricoh found some good strategy here... time will tell.

[Rush2112]

I am keeping a VERY close eye on this thread VERY.

lol

[Belnan]

Basically the patent relates to projecting an image within the optical viewfinder either as an overlay or an EVF.

The sections relating to magnification seem to cover the existing lenses between the eyepiece and the prism (3 lens group) and the need to make the projected image big enough.

They actually present three different ways of doing this using different arrangements of mirrors/prisms. I have only shown one in the image above.

And I said the EVF can only be used in live view because otherwise the mirror still covers the sensor.

You could still project a lot more than at present such as menus, info screen, focus points that turn green with focus lock etc etc.

This all sounds expensive, but pretty cool. I wonder how this would work with the electronically controlled mirror with half of the light projected towards the pentrism and half towards the sensor?

[MikeyBugs95]

It is a pretty ingenious idea here..

It is for this reason that, if I understand correctly, they also speak of a real magnifying glass to be activated in the viewfinder

Basically the patent relates to projecting an image within the optical viewfinder either as an overlay or an EVF.

The sections relating to magnification seem to cover the existing lenses between the eyepiece and the prism (3 lens group) and the need to make the projected image big enough.

They actually present three different ways of doing this using different arrangements of mirrors/prisms. I have only shown one in the image above.

And I said the EVF can only be used in live view because otherwise the mirror still covers the sensor.

You could still project a lot more than at present such as menus, info screen, focus points that turn green with focus lock etc etc.

I wonder if that supposed magnifying lens isn't that lens shown in green? It would make sense shown its convex curvature and its location just after the mirrors and before the triangular prism.

[alfa75ts]

I wonder if that supposed magnifying lens isn't that lens shown in green?

Correct, that's the one to 'make the projected image big enough'. One of the other options uses a prism with a curved face to do the same.

I assume the other options are there to try to cover all the bases and prevent others bypassing the patent.

[lotech]

That's brilliant never seen on any design, should put into all WR lenses, well-done Pentax !!!

That dehumidifier was talked about quite a bit on the 11-18 for astro work.

[Belnan]

This all sounds expensive, but pretty cool. I wonder how this would work with the electronically controlled mirror with half of the light projected towards the pentrism and half towards the sensor?

See this thread if anyone is wondering what I'm smoking.

Is this Pentax's future? Translucent mirror with adjustable transmission rate patent - PentaxForums.com

[UlrichSchiegg]

I am keeping a VERY close eye on this thread VERY.

lol

Sure. Your name is Rush, isn't it?

[H.Abendsen]

This all sounds expensive, but pretty cool. I wonder how this would work with the electronically controlled mirror with half of the light projected towards the pentrism and half towards the sensor?

sounds expensive... LOL
a leEco Le3 sounds also expensive looking at its specs.... offers 4K video at 30fps and 120fps slo-motion FHD video.
those devices press so much technology together on such small space.... . still it sells for 130 bucks so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


I think there should not be anything half half in a smartly constructed Hybrid Viewfinder...... and i dont think light gets redirected anywhere when the cam is in live-view it just hits the sensor and A-D circuitry generates a picture.... just like you would record a video in live-view...
and lets assume this Illustration from alfa75ts really shows a patent on a hybrid viewfinder....so:


(I only assume from what I have seen on his illustration on page 3 - i could go wrong at some point but i guess it comes close...)

when you switch that hybrid mode on...
an additional mirror behind the pentaprisms side that would normally have an angle of 23° against the angle of the sensor(0°) - gets flipped to a position of app. 45°...

and the actual mirror is up like in Live-View and so closes the pentaprism part from any light that would come inside otherwise... picture gets projected through the lens onto the sensor...
and now, what you actually would see in live-view, is showing on some source like a display above the pentaprism ... gets redirected from one mirror into a direction away from you and another time hits a mirror that reflects that picture slightly towards you but a bit more downwards where an optical element sits that enlarges it and projects it onto the last mirror...
(the one that has tilted from its 23° position to 45° and therefore now allows to pass in light through the pentaprisms glass directly towards you)

...which throws the whole picture(thats actually running on a rather small display)... back to you....(that only makes +1 small display 2 non-moveable mirrors plus one small mirror that just has to tilt a bit.)
not so much of a construction wonder if you ask me.
Even some watches that you can buy for less than 100 dollars look way more difficult to design and to produce, and make you wonder and go WTF... but hey, what do I know...
they could sell it to us as the superpricey feature of course, if enough people bought a plastic crop-dslr-camera with only one card-slot for way more than the price of a K-3




and this patent you referred to... the translucent mirror with adjustable transmission rate... is not mentioned in THIS patent... alfa75ts illustrated for us, AFAICS.


BUT! - It would allow for a very genious arrangement... to have the mirror(s) in a fixed position so nothing except the shutter
(and the mirror on the back of the pentaprism allowing for Hybrid-Viewfinder or better said: EVF-mode| this would not be as stressed as a DSLR-mirror - but also this flipping mirror could be replaced by having a kind of a see-through mirror on the back of the pentaprism instead)
-> has got to move physically...

switch to 100% translucent and close the pentaprism part(what normally the mirror would do by flipping up) at the same time with another mirror with the same technology(one opens - the other one closes),

at the very moment you press the shutter-release button or when you you want to go EVF it closes permantly and - see description above on how the hybrid EVF would work anyway...


That may sound difficult but hence the watches comparison... it doesnt have to be. many things sound difficult...

And keep in mind, that even though you would need another mirror(or even more mirrors) STILL!! it could mean to make the camera cheaper to build, because none of those mirrors would have to move.
I mean you would spare yourself the mirror mechanism that nearly needs to be the most precise and fast moving part in the camera... (and this way nothing more would have to move.)

no more damping precisely calculated to avoid shakes would be needed.. etc....


short: such a construction (2 switchable mirrors) would take the most stress out of the classical DSLR design.
and totally and up to 100%,
kill the greatest drawbacks on Sonys approach(SLT) namely: the light loss...

*pouf* gone with the wind, still all the advantages of mirroless plus no exposed sensor.


*[ (DSMSLR) ???]

[Belnan]

So they should do that then. 😊

[alfa75ts]

an additional mirror behind the pentaprisms side that would normally have an angle of 23° against the angle of the sensor(0°) - gets flipped to a position of app. 45°...

but also this flipping mirror could be replaced by having a kind of a see-through mirror on the back of the pentaprism instead)

The back of the prism is already a one-way (kind of a see-through) mirror so no moving mirror is required for this patent (except for the main mirror).

I wonder how this would work with the electronically controlled mirror with half of the light projected towards the pentrism and half towards the sensor?

It could but you would lose 1 stop of light.

[reh321]

*pouf* gone with the wind, still all the advantages of mirroless plus no exposed sensor.]

At the cost of lots of untested new, but complicated, technology.

[deus ursus]

*[ (DSMSLR) ???]

If this becomes reality I expect the next big thing to be a BDSMSLR...

[photoptimist]

I'm not talking about seeing more in the viewfinder all the time.

Some of the time (as much of that time as you choose, actually), all you would see would be the optical view.

But, selectable and configurable via an otherwise-transparent LCD layer in the viewfinder, you'd see overlays of settings and / or - importantly - a digital representation of the image, even magnified when you need it. Imagine that... switchable optical or digital view, and better still - for those situations where you'd like it - a combo of the two? That's what I'm talking about. Those who like OVF (me included) could use that view most of the time, leveraging the EVF aspect only when needing certain EVF features such as live histogram, a brightened view during low-light shooting, or - here's one for you - critical accuracy with manual focus (you might think EVFs are rubbish, but stand next to me when I'm using my A7 MkII (instead of my K-3) and replicate my accurate focusing of a fast lens wide open with your OVF ).

Hey, I'm a huge fan of OVFs. I love them. I prefer them when they're the most practical choice. Most of the cameras I shoot have them. Yet for certain applications, an EVF is gold-dust, where an OVF is - to use your term - "rubbish". In others, the OVF rules supreme, and the EVF is "rubbish". Disclosure: I bought a Sony A7 MkII primarily to shoot my old Soviet manual focus glass... Yet I still prefer my Pentax gear when I can use it to its best advantage.

Do you see what I'm getting at? Or are you closed off to the benefits EVFs - or better still, a hybrid O/EVF - can offer in even a limited number of your use cases? If you are, that's fine... I won't challenge that. What's right for you is right for you. But trust me, there are people who would make great use of a hybrid viewfinder

I'm also an OVF lover and feel that the optical scene offers a better view of the tonality of the subject matter. Moreover, I don't like the battery drain and sensor heating required by full-time EVF usage.

But there are times that I do want to see the electronic image. Unfortunately, the backpanel display of OVF-ony cameras have worse ergonomics than an EVF because it forces me to pull the camera away from my eye, I can't hold the camera still in zombie-mode as well, and the backpanel display is hard to see in bright sun. The times I want an EVF (in addition to the OVF) are:

1. Digital preview and post-shot review: I'd love for these images to show up in the viewfinder rather than on the back of the camera. With a hybrid OVF/EVF, the camera never needs to leave my eye. NO MORE CHIMPING!

2. Critical focus and exposure. There are occasionally scenes with high dynamic range or fine detail in which seeing a live EVF image with focus peaking, over/under blinkies, and histogram would enable better focusing and exposure settings.

I'd never buy an EVF-only camera as long as OVF cameras are available. But I'd jump on a hybrid OVF/EVF that lets me see the digital image after every shot or under certain shooting conditions.

P.S. For me, the half-silvered/pellicle/controlled reflectance design has zero advantages. The mirror motion has never bothered me, I never use my camera for video, and the semi-mirror design does not provide hybrid OVF/EVF.