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10-15-2018, 11:06 AM   #46
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I see there may be a misunderstanding... According to what i read from the website --->
QuoteQuote:
Photos shot using any of the following cameras or lenses or a combination of both items are required to enter this contest.
--> some assumptions in here may be wrong.

I think it may be of interest, that this means:


You only have to use one of the products listed in your shot(photo), to make it eligible to enter the contest.


So,
*)a K-5IIs with a DFA* 50mm 1.4 SDM AW lens mounted.... or
*)a K-3 with a HD DA 40mm ltd. or even
*)a K-1 with a DA L 35mm 2.4 ,

would also mean a set-up which would make your photo eligible to enter the contest.

10-15-2018, 05:43 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by H.Abendsen Quote
I see there may be a misunderstanding... According to what i read from the website --->
--> some assumptions in here may be wrong.

I think it may be of interest, that this means:


You only have to use one of the products listed in your shot(photo), to make it eligible to enter the contest.


So,
*)a K-5IIs with a DFA* 50mm 1.4 SDM AW lens mounted.... or
*)a K-3 with a HD DA 40mm ltd. or even
*)a K-1 with a DA L 35mm 2.4 ,

would also mean a set-up which would make your photo eligible to enter the contest.
Others had pointed that out to me as well. Let me update the first post to reflect this information. Anyway, thank you very much.
10-15-2018, 06:58 PM - 1 Like   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
What's the big deal?

Most of the folks who submit will be amateurs who will feel better about themselves if one of their images is accepted. If you are selling your images for hundreds (or thousands) of dollars a pop then you definitely shouldn't submit an image, but most of us here shoot for fun. I don't know that I would submit an image, but certainly it is no riskier than posting one here or on Flickr. In fact those are probably more likely to be stolen.
But they want you to submit your best photo, and then you only can display it on your own blog, website, etc. You can't submit it for any other contest in case you want. Nope. Ricoh takes pretty much the most rights of your image. Thank you, but no.
10-15-2018, 08:27 PM - 1 Like   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by micromacro Quote
But they want you to submit your best photo, and then you only can display it on your own blog, website, etc. You can't submit it for any other contest in case you want. Nope. Ricoh takes pretty much the most rights of your image. Thank you, but no.
I wonder how this would stack up against local intellectual property laws, let alone how an argument in a civil court would run? You can’t contract away any rights that statute law provides, after all. You can just imagine the adverse publicity that would be generated in a court case, so I would guess the only realistic recourse Ricoh would have to a breach of their terms would be to withdraw your image.

The bit about having no intention to enter the image in another contest etc is potentially contestable (eg when does that intention take effect and for how long? At the time of submission, or from that point on, forever?) and what does “unpublished” mean when you can show it on your own website?

10-16-2018, 02:26 AM - 1 Like   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by micromacro Quote
But they want you to submit your best photo, and then you only can display it on your own blog, website, etc. You can't submit it for any other contest in case you want. Nope. Ricoh takes pretty much the most rights of your image. Thank you, but no.
That's fine, you don't have to submit a photo. I probably won't either. For one thing, I have no idea how I would choose my "best photo" and unlike you, I don't really submit photos to contests or anything like that anyway.

I still don't think it's a big deal. There's nothing wrong with Ricoh crowd sourcing some photos and if they get a single photo out of your collection, there still should be several others left behind for you to do with as you wish.
10-16-2018, 02:54 AM - 1 Like   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
That's fine, you don't have to submit a photo. I probably won't either.

From what I gather is that they want to license your work so that they can use if for advertising purposes in a unlimited way, It would be all fine and dandy until you use a photo that requires a third party permission as this can open you up to liability, usually for this kind of use I like to be paid even if it is a little bit of money. Adding to the insult of using your work for free if they acquire damages from a issues related to a third party, they want you to be held responsible to those damages they might incur.

And further reading "The contributor shall not claim rights based on the moral rights of the creator" they want to acquire the copyright of your image ( I could be wrong interpreting this ) but usually with this kind of request I would require the company that seeks my work, that its up to them to have all legal documents and that they are held to damages if they don't meet all the requirements to use a third parties likeness for their promotional usage, if they want to take my copyright over the image.
One of the problems is what is required for documentation varies greatly on the regions the images are going to be used in , if someone does not like how their likeness is being used in promotional work they may complain or seek damages and I don't want to be the one that held liable for something that does not benefit me other than credit for the image. Just defending your self can cost more than the damages they seek and often not worth defending yourself.

Last edited by Ian Stuart Forsyth; 10-16-2018 at 03:02 AM.
10-16-2018, 03:03 AM - 4 Likes   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth Quote
From what I gather is that they want to license your work so that they can use if for advertising purposes in a unlimited way, It would be all fine and dandy until you use a photo that requires a third party permission as this can open you up to liability, usually for this kind of use I like to be paid even if it is a little bit of money. Adding to the insult of using your work for free if they acquire damages from a issues related to a third party, they want you to be held responsible to those damages they might incur.

And further reading "The contributor shall not claim rights based on the moral rights of the creator" they want to acquire the copyright of your image ( I could be wrong interpreting this ) but usually with this kind of request I would require the company that seeks my work, that its up to them to have all legal documents and that they are held to damages if they don't meet all the requirements to use a third parties likeness for their promotional usage, if they want to take my copyright over the image.
There is no insult or injury here. Ricoh does not require you to submit your photo, they don't choose which photo you submit and they are telling you up front that this image (if chosen) will be used for their advertising. Clearly if you are submitting photos with people in them, you probably should have a signed release, but with animals/wildlife/landscapes there should be minimal concerns about "damages."

For professionals and for many amateurs this will be a no-go as either they won't want to give away their work for free or they will be uncomfortable with their work being displayed in an uncontrolled fashion or even as you say the "risks" of Ricoh doing something crazy with your images.

But considering the stuff folks are willing to post to Instagram and Facebook and Flickr, I really don't see this as being more problematic.
10-16-2018, 03:24 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
There is no insult or injury here.
My point is if they want to use my work and hold the copywrite of the images, so that they can use them across borders, that they should be the ones responsible for procuring the requirements for their usage all while not holding me liable to their damages.

If a person want to take my car when I give it away for free, I have no issue with that but I am no longer liable for what they do with that car or the damages they occur using said car they got from me for free

---------- Post added 10-16-2018 at 03:29 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
But considering the stuff folks are willing to post to Instagram and Facebook and Flickr,
They are not being used to promote and or advertisement a large company, some people see dollar signs when they feel they have been wronged even more so with its a large company and if they want to use this work for free it should be up too them that to uphold the requirements they need to use those images.

10-16-2018, 05:19 AM - 1 Like   #54
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That's fine, but I don't know that you are the demographic that Ricoh is shooting for here anyway. For one thing, you shoot with a D810, I think,which probably precludes you from the start, but my guess is that they are aiming more at amateurs here anyway.
10-16-2018, 06:12 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
That's fine, but I don't know that you are the demographic that Ricoh is shooting for here anyway. For one thing, you shoot with a D810, I think,which probably precludes you from the start, but my guess is that they are aiming more at amateurs here anyway.
I understand that you support the company, but imagine it's not Pentax, just no-name some company. Would you agree with their rules of submitting images?
10-16-2018, 06:31 AM - 3 Likes   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by micromacro Quote
I understand that you support the company, but imagine it's not Pentax, just no-name some company. Would you agree with their rules of submitting images?
I already said I am not submitting an image -- I don't tend to submit images contests, full stop.

That said, I would have no issues submitting one of my landscape images to a company and using the rules that Ricoh has in place. I guess I don't feel like my images are worth a whole lot to anyone but me. I'm not making great art and giving up a single image doesn't feel like a big deal.

As for the "risk" involved with the submission, it feels quite over blown here. If I took a sunrise image of a farmer's field, or a lake, I just don't see someone consulting legal help to sue me or Ricoh (or whatever other hypothetical company was involved).

Regardless, we have established that some people feel comfortable submitting images and some don't. If you don't then the whole thing is settled. I just don't think this is as terrible or risk as some in this thread seem to imply.
11-15-2018, 07:50 PM - 1 Like   #57
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I got an email several days ago saying my photo from the K10D and FA 43 had been accepted. They requested a larger size and the original image, so I replied and attached the requested photos tonight, with a message saying the image is published in several art galleries. Even though I responded past their deadline, they replied within an hour letting me know they couldn't use a published image, and asked if I could send them other images taken with the FA 43. I just sent them a couple unpublished images from the 43...
11-16-2018, 12:06 AM - 1 Like   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I don't own a single supported lens. They want me to spend a lot of money to submit work, for which I won't be paid. I do own a 21 ltd. but since I bought the K-1 I don't use it much,. Also, the K-1 is the only eligible camera I own, so I guess I could submit 21 ltd images taken in crop mode.

Also of interest, there are no flagship APS-c models listed. That's just odd.

I guess they are only taking images taken with premium gear in the current catalogue.

It does speak to the fact that Pentax doesn't really want to sell the 28-105. It's obviously a crumb tossed out there to draw people in to the store, and give salesmen a chance to upsell. I can hear the store dudes now, "Hey we don't have any images taken with the DFA 28-105, but look at these images taken with the 24-70." I see how this works.

The contest speaks to the current Pentax mindset. "Sell fewer lenses of higher quality for better profit margins."
There are no current APS-c "flagship" cameras....the K-3/ii was discontinued....only the current lineup is eligible. Honestly, they are trying to sell current bodies and lenses (K-1/ii, KP, K-70) & that makes Ricoh no different than any other company--viability is achieved through current sales.

The one thing I agree with is that the contest should include the FF 28-105mm 'kit' lens because many K-1 buyers purchase it with that lens to get initiated into full frame photography. The fact that this lens is not included in the contest, means that a large portion of current Pentax customers are being wrongfully excluded.They are trying to sell the limited and prime lenses to enhance their market share as opposed to acknowledging the sizable investment purchasers of current Pentax products have made.

Norm: the bottom line is: what you and I care about (FF/APS-c) is not ultimately what Ricoh cares about. To us, image is everything, to Ricoh, maintaining/increasing market share is what the shareholders want.
11-16-2018, 06:16 AM - 2 Likes   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by Merv-O Quote
To us, image is everything, to Ricoh, maintaining/increasing market share is what the shareholders want.
And traditional marketing … paying a roster of professionals to showcase their work … is expensive and may or may not achieve sales objectives in the camera industry as it stands. Part of the reason Kenspo came over to do his stint with Pentax was that Nikon were laying off such people left, right and centre a few years ago.

This sort of guerrilla campaign assumes that a large enough number of amateurs with good equipment and proud to do work without being paid will generate a showcase gallery that's relatable … that stunning sunset was taken by an 'Uncle Bob'!

And Uncle Bobs would be the target audience, too, not pros.
11-16-2018, 08:51 AM - 2 Likes   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
And traditional marketing … paying a roster of professionals to showcase their work … is expensive and may or may not achieve sales objectives in the camera industry as it stands. Part of the reason Kenspo came over to do his stint with Pentax was that Nikon were laying off such people left, right and centre a few years ago.

This sort of guerrilla campaign assumes that a large enough number of amateurs with good equipment and proud to do work without being paid will generate a showcase gallery that's relatable … that stunning sunset was taken by an 'Uncle Bob'!

And Uncle Bobs would be the target audience, too, not pros.
That is correct. I believe with the K-1 series, RIcoh sees the retrenchment of the pro-sumer camera market and wants to market to professionals (realistically, Pentax has always had a niche in the professional market due to their outstanding 645 series medium format kits). I think the DSLR group is analogous to the Vinyl record audiophile contingent. People who enjoyed the nuances of analog music held on until a new generation of millennials and others saw the enjoyment of LP records too--for the first time in decades record sales increased !!

I have a feeling that will also be the DSLR/stand alone camera market as well.....over time, there hopefully will be a new generation of camera afficiandos that will embrace actual phtography (same reason that my daughter and her friends all shoot film cameras). Perhaps I have the proverbial 'rose-tinted' glasses on, but I would hate to see a genre of image making disappear.


In a different light, I applaud Ricoh for finally affirmatively marketing their excellent Pentax and RIcoh (GR III) camera kits. That in itself is a win. Imagine other stores besides B&H and Adorama carrying Pentax gear.
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