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10-16-2018, 03:56 PM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tesla Quote
I think this thread should be renamed "Asahiman Rumors"
There isn't that much interest in "WG-60 rumours," which is probably why the original poster teased us with a vague and somewhat misleading thread title instead.

Let's take it as given that asahiman has good source(s) at Ricoh. Even if we ignore the fact that English is not his first language, there are a few solid deductions we can make from his posts here and on the website that should not be named. One, asahiman does not make decisions for Ricoh Imaging, he sometimes gets the timing or sequence of events wrong, so he has to "clarify" his earlier posts. His source(s) probably don't make those final decisions, either. Two, he doesn't hold back information until everything is confirmed, instead he releases early so he can be first, so we get vague information that is open to different interpretations. Asahiman's source(s) is(are) probably giving him vague information because they aren't in a position to confirm final decisions in advance. Three, most of asahiman's posts are in response to someone making fun of Pentax's future and his posts try to put a positive spin on Pentax. That probably helps his relationship with his source(s) at Ricoh, but "asahiman says" comments are more likely to be overoptimistic than not.

Unlike asahiman, I don't have any sources (good or bad) at Ricoh or any company somehow connected to the photographic equipment industry. All I can do is comment on what Ricoh Imaging is doing right now and what they have done since Pentax was acquired from Hoya. Not too long ago, the president of Ricoh Imaging and his top marketing manager and top product development manager were in Köln. I find it hard to believe that was just to help announce the GR III; if there are bigger announcements imminent, why wouldn't they at least say something about new products that won't be available for several months, like Panasonic did? Not even a 3-D printed mock-up made it to their booth. My speculation is that this high-powered trio came to Köln to ask some questions and check the industry climate before making final decisions on the projects that asahiman is hinting at and it not guaranteed that all or any of them will get the green light. These type of decisions are not likely to be announced to asahiman's source(s) too far in advance, because it would directly affect their employment.

There may not be very many people working on research and development at Ricoh Imaging, but surely they haven't all been working on the D-FA * 50 for the past 18 months. If you were the president of Ricoh Imaging, would you give the green light to finalize a second FF body when at least one more signature FF lens is needed to support continued sales of the FF body you are currently manufacturing and you stopped manufacturing a top level APS-C camera at least six months ago? Don't forget Ricoh Imaging isn't getting major capital investments from Ricoh Company and they are getting slower, not faster, at releasing new products in general. What about the equipment and tooling to build 645 format products, can Ricoh Imaging afford to shut it down and sell everything for scrap? Is Ricoh Imaging making so much money with the K-1 and FF lenses that they can afford to ignore the APS-C market forever? I really don't see how asahiman's comment about two classes can be interpreted as confirmation that Ricoh Imaging is going to manufacture two distinct lines of FF camera.

10-16-2018, 04:12 PM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
As far as the technology inside an APSc Flagship, it’s just going to be everything in the FF with a smaller prism and sensor, so how much ‘development’ is there really left to do?
.
For the next APS-C flagship, why settle for simple miniturization of FF features?

Why not try at least to offer what the main APS-C competitors offered 2 generations ago (e.g. auto pano stitching in camera, focus shifting, 4K video, 9 customizable buttons, 10 or more frames per second, seemingly bottomless buffer, joy stick, 10 or more film simulations, 3 custom white balance settings, focus peaking offered in multiple colors, 3 auto ISO settings, ISO/film-simulation/WB bracketing, etc)? How about a touch screen? Or maybe a BSI sensor?

Why just settle with more of the same - just smaller? Do you really believe that that strategy will bring in new users?

Last edited by Fenwoodian; 10-16-2018 at 04:28 PM.
10-16-2018, 04:36 PM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fenwoodian Quote
.
For the next APS-C flagship, why settle for simple miniturization of FF features?

Why not try at least to offer what the main APS-C competitors offered 2 generations ago (e.g. auto pano stitching in camera, focus shifting, 4K video, 9 customizable buttons, 10 or more frames per second, seemingly bottomless buffer, joy stick, 10 or more film simulations, 3 custom white balance settings, focus peaking offered in multiple colors, 3 auto ISO settings, ISO/film-simulation/WB bracketing, etc)? How about a touch screen? Or maybe a BSI sensor?

Why just settle with more of the same - just smaller? Do you really believe that that strategy will bring in new users?
Dude. What makes you think you didn’t just describe the next FF?
10-16-2018, 05:16 PM - 1 Like   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
As far as the technology inside an APSc Flagship, it’s just going to be everything in the FF with a smaller prism and sensor, so how much ‘development’ is there really left to do?
Way too much logic in that statement.

10-16-2018, 06:48 PM - 1 Like   #80
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<whisper>a 645C would be another FF possibility - and a big statement in more than one way.</whisper>
10-16-2018, 06:55 PM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by Smolk Quote
<whisper>a 645C would be another FF possibility - and a big statement in more than one way.</whisper>
Yeah, that would have the masses flocking to Pentax to grab one up.
10-16-2018, 07:04 PM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by Smolk Quote
<whisper>a 645C would be another FF possibility - and a big statement in more than one way.</whisper>
Remember kenspo’s big error?

.:

10-16-2018, 07:19 PM - 1 Like   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Remember kenspo’s big error?

.:
No, I don't. Because I started ignoring him long before he jumped ship.
10-17-2018, 01:33 AM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
One with digital sensor and one for analogue photography.


That woul be incredible and I would preorder an analogue one immediately. Probably two...
10-17-2018, 01:46 AM   #85
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It’s hard to see what the fuss is about.

To me, the likely upshot of the various snippets of info is one new FF camera in 2019, with perhaps in addition an anniversary edition of the K1ii with a limited run and fancy coverings, and very likely one new APS-C camera, together with the roadmapped lenses. A new FF camera need be no surprise. The sensor and internals of the K1 are long in the tooth by now. Much better performance can be achieved from more recent iterations of both sensor and especially the processing train: more frames, faster readout, better video, more responsive AF. Once that new-gen tech is taped down, it can be extended to all other cameras in the range.

The trouble starts the moment the term “flagship” is applied to the APS-C camera. Really, the world moved on from that when FF entered the picture. APS-C + flagship is over, I think. Chances are a new APS-C will be a perfectly competent mid to upper mid-range item with changes to some of the things which didn’t quite work on the KP like the grip and battery. It won’t be a mini-A9, a D500 or an X-T3 but it won’t be bad in any way either.

As always, folks with specilalist requirements - long teles and sports AF, state-of-the art flash/lighting, etc. - will probably be better served elsewhere but that has always been the case. Nothing new about that.

Pentax are a tiny operation these days. If one adds up the various “bids” going in, Canon would be hard pressed to meet them all. Be realistic. That said, we are all guessing. None of this may come to pass. All of it may. There could be a big surprise such as a cut-down "Spotmatic" FF instead of the APS-C which follows in 2020. Who knows.

Last edited by mecrox; 10-17-2018 at 03:54 AM.
10-17-2018, 02:57 AM   #86
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I have no idea how much Asahiman actually knows or doesn't know. He is in Europe and so he gets information based on what Ricoh passes along, but Japan tends to be tight lipped about things until they get fairly far along in the development cycle.

I'm sure he is right, that right now the focus is on full frame lens development. I would surprised if Pentax launched two new full frame cameras next year, not because they couldn't, but because of product spacing and the relatively recent launch of the K-1 II. But regardless, I think we are getting only a part of the picture of Pentax camera development. The K70 and 645Z are both due to have replacements come out as well, unless Pentax has decided that they don't want to compete in the medium format market.

Just as far as the big picture goes, the thing that needs to happen is Pentax needs to have a new processing engine. Once they get that into place, they can develop multiple cameras while sharing tech between them. To me, this seems likely. K3 III and K1 III, both with a newer version of PRIME that allows for faster operation and better video. Even if Pentax does release two full frame cameras next year, that does not preclude them from launching other cameras along side them.

QuoteOriginally posted by Fenwoodian Quote
Here's my biggest concern...

Whatever new features/format they might offer in the future be fully supported by multiple major image editing softwares.

It's unacceptable that there's still not a single software out there that will edit RAW files taken using the new version of pixel shift that's offered on the K-1 markII .

Lots of my friends are now using Capture One. Capture One even has a special version of their software (at a discounted price) that's just for editing Fuji files. However, you guessed it, no version of Capture One will edit either version of Pentax's pixel shift files.

I, like many here, shoot full frame RAW files in order to ring every bit of goodness we can out of an image file. Without proper RAW support, we might as well shoot jpgs.
Raw Therapee is the best way to go. I had hoped that with Sony having pixel shift too, that more third parties would start to support pixel shift. Lightroom does support it, just not with motion correction and for many images, taken on still days, is probably sufficient.
10-17-2018, 09:14 AM - 1 Like   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
What's the rush? The latest Canon crop DSLR was the EOS 7D mk II announced in 2014 and Nikon's flagship DX500 was announced at the beginning of 2016.

Are Canon and Nikon users champing at the bit for a new crop flagship?

According to some, Ricoh/Pentax cannot possibly survive unless they copy everything Nikon and Canon does. Isn't taking their time with a new crop flagship doing that?
My K-3 will hit it's rated shutter count in about 2 years. It's not about wanting it quickly, it's about wanting something when it wears out. I guess a K-3ii would do. But I have a K-1, and I like the tilting back screen, pixel shift, the GPS, and the improved AF system for the K1ii and KP. Personally, the way camera tech is advancing, I don't think a new release every 5 years is asking for much. And there are things on the K-1 I would like on my K-3. They have the technology I want. They just haven't put it on a flagship APS-c.

Pentax has said the are developing something, I fully expect them to release something before my K-3 dies.

Last edited by normhead; 10-17-2018 at 09:23 AM.
10-17-2018, 10:22 AM   #88
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My personal feeling is that whatever leaks of information may occur in the next few months, Ricoh will keep one or two surprises for launch in a centenary year. To do otherwise would be to waste the marketing opportunity that the anniversary provides, and the relative dearth of recent releases will only strengthen the impact of whatever is launched.

Maybe they will play to nostalgia with a "Spotmatic DK?" or some such.

Just my idle thoughts.
10-17-2018, 12:41 PM   #89
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I dream to buy a new Pentax FF mirrorless to replace my old Sony A7. But is Pentax able to make it (a new line up with body and lenses)?
10-17-2018, 12:45 PM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by KX5 Quote
I dream to buy a new Pentax FF mirrorless to replace my old Sony A7. But is Pentax able to make it (a new line up with body and lenses)?
I talked to a Nikon shooter who now has an A7, I took picture of him and his wife at lookout. Nice camera. But I can't imagine Pentax making one.
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