[reh321]

Right, absolutely. I do feel sorry for anyone who is getting into any disadvantage regarding his equipment. This happens, it did to 4/3 users, Sony A-mount users, Nexus mount users... who knows what will be with Canon and Nikon DSLR mounts? Especially with APS-C. Does someone really think there will be a D500II?

I do find it odd that Ricoh does not take the chance to define a solid niche here: high quality fast APS-C camera for nature photography. They might attract some people uncertain about their F and EF systems?
But maybe they don't see enough market in that and what advantage could be kept by keeping the mirror here? I'm not in this target group, why was it necessary to develop this “flagship“ again, and how would it attract people from other systems? Honest question.

Pentax has repeatedly shown what I call "lack of imagination" - they have a certain view of a certain product and are unwilling to go beyond that point. I first started talking about that when they allowed the "Q" series to fade rather than move it into other niches when its original reason for existing was filled by smart phones. I believe that they view all of their current cameras as "field cameras"; I hope I am wrong.

[ffking]

But maybe they don't see enough market in that and what advantage could be kept by keeping the mirror here? I'm not in this target group, why was it necessary to develop this “flagship“ again, and how would it attract people from other systems? Honest question.

I think it's the investment in lenses as much as anything - the FF 600, 250-600 and even prime 400 and 300 disappeared from the line-up long ago and comparable APS-C lenses were never made ( with the 'exception' of the 560mm) - the investment in sports/wildlife oriented cameras might not be deemed worth it without the lenses such shooters would want - not that that stopped Sony with the A9, of course

[reh321]

Right, absolutely. I do feel sorry for anyone who is getting into any disadvantage regarding his equipment. This happens, it did to 4/3 users, Sony A-mount users, Nexus mount users... who knows what will be with Canon and Nikon DSLR mounts? Especially with APS-C. Does someone really think there will be a D500II?

I do find it odd that Ricoh does not take the chance to define a solid niche here: high quality fast APS-C camera for nature photography. They might attract some people uncertain about their F and EF systems?
But maybe they don't see enough market in that and what advantage could be kept by keeping the mirror here? I'm not in this target group, why was it necessary to develop this “flagship“ again, and how would it attract people from other systems? Honest question.

After thinking about my first response to this, I went to the B&H site and listed just Nikon cameras by the default "best sellers" listing. The all-purpose {but expensive} D850 was first, the traditional field camera {24mb FF} D750 was third .... and the much-respected-here D500 was tenth. Even if I remove the 'duplicates' (*), the D500 is seventh. My experience in conversing with Nikon users is that they don't respect the D500 nearly as much as we seem to. Yes, it focuses very well, but they view it as being "noisey".



(*) various Z6 and Z7 kits are five of the top ten listings.

[fsge]

Wonder what Ricoh/Pentax might expect us to do who have an abundance of APS-C lens in our Kit? Suck it up and buy FF lens or use the APS-C setting on the FF?

At my age I'm not buying into the FF equipment I'll just stick with my APS-C cameras and be content but I think there will be an APS-C high spec camera next year.

That is my assumption as well, I have more than 50% of my gear which is not FF compliant, including excellent 35 ltd and sigma 8-16, no way I would part ways with these.
I thought about using apsc setting on the K1 but pixel density is not good enough and body is too big/heavy.
If nothing new comes next year I will buy a KP or even a cheap K70 and wait a bit more. Maybe that is what they want us to do!

[Merv-O]

I recently got rid of my K-50 due to the shutter issue and bought a new (left over) K-S2 to tide me over (I also have a K-3 with 4,600 shots on it and a newer K-1ii FF with about 800) for quick pics, back-up and/or travel. When I bought my K-1, I had a new SIGMA 70-300mm FF lens already. Bought the K-1ii with the kit 18-105mm and then added: IRIX 15mm, 35mm & 50mm 1.4 primes, and a Tamron short tele 28-75mm (f2.8). The total Full frame investment (less the K-1ii body) was about $1,600.00. The two primes were from B&H (35mm) and the 50mm was from Adorama respectively (both were about 175 or so for 'mint'). The IRIX was new (bought the Firefly as the optics are the same), the Tamron was from KEH rated excellent plus and in fact, looks new to me for $300). Had the SIGMA from my K-50 and now can use it at its actual focal length--so the step up wasn't horrible....I will still use the K-3 as I like the 24mp crop sensor (plus I have 18-50 retractable, 16-46 da, 18-135mm da and the 50-200 da) as well as the K-S2. The KP isn't a bad camera either so Pentax is providing me with everything I need....It's like golf clubs, many times no matter how much game improvement there is, the golfer still sucks. Same with Cameras....your skills can be enhanced by great equipment, but unless you put a Pentax only 'Green/Auto" mode all the time, you will produce nice images but you may never be satisfied until you expand your individual skills...

[awscreo]

Hope one of the lenses is the dfa 70-200 4, I'd definitely switch from Tamron 2.8, it's just too big for what I use it for. And hope one of the bodies is a new apsc flagship.

[reh321]

Wonder what Ricoh/Pentax might expect us to do who have an abundance of APS-C lens in our Kit? Suck it up and buy FF lens or use the APS-C setting on the FF?

At my age I'm not buying into the FF equipment I'll just stick with my APS-C cameras and be content but I think there will be an APS-C high spec camera next year.

I've been thinking about this issue ever since the run-up to Photokina 2018.

Fortunately, by tradition I depend on just three lenses - right now a Sigma 10-20, a DA 18-135, and a DA 55-300 - so my "loss" in going FF would be only so much. When I was thinking of going from film to digital, I determined that 6mp would give me the detail I was getting from Kodachrome 25. I already have a FA 28-105, so that film lens could serve as my "middle" lens. A DA 18-135 PLM in crop mode on a 24mp FF camera would give me at least 9mp, so under my 6mp standard, I could 'live with' that, leaving only the wide-angle lens to be finessed somehow. For me, personally, the main question is what they would charge for the low-end FF camera .... if that was more than I was willing to spend, I would go back to the idea of purchasing a KP.

[Merv-O]

REh321:

Your approach to lens usage is pragmatic and leaves few gaps.However, I like having a few primes though as some barrel distortion is inevitable with most telephoto lenses and the slight overlap is worth the faster speed & flexibility most primes have anyway (1.4 v. 2.8, etc.) at the fixed focal point...

[reh321]

REh321:

Your approach to lens usage is pragmatic and leaves few gaps.However, I like having a few primes though as some barrel distortion is inevitable with most telephoto lenses and the slight overlap is worth the faster speed & flexibility most primes have anyway (1.4 v. 2.8, etc.) at the fixed focal point...

When I used my Super Program, the middle lens was a 50mm. When a middle zoom was kitted with my next camera, I came to understand that a zoom lens fit my style better, because it allowed me to choose the perspective I wanted rather than the perspective forced on me by the framing I wanted (*).

Use of zooms wasn't my point, though. If I went back to FF, I'd probably experiment with some of the primes I have going back to my film days. My point was that my small "investment" in lenses leaves me more flexible, so having Pentax put more emphasis on FF wouldn't be a "catastrophe" -- but I understand why some here would be very upset if that happened.


(*) In the age of film I shot mostly Kodachrome, so I never thought in terms of cropping.

[Mistral75]

According to Nokishita Camera, the Ricoh WG-60 will be announced tomorrow 25 October. Its main specifications should be identical to those of WG-50. Availability date is 16 November 2018.

軒下デジカメ情報局 (@nokishita_c) | Twitter

デジカメ噂メモ|軒下デジカメ情報局

[ebk]

only an update this wg-60.
no surprise.
Pentax so called new ones are only update.

[RonHendriks1966]

That looks still a lot like the Pentax WG-30.......

Nothing changed in many years.


Friday we will see the new financial report from Ricoh, so maybe this wg-60 is in it as the new kid on the block.

[Kunzite]

They will publish the report for Q2 FY 2019 - from July to September. The WG60 isn't even announced yet.

[RonHendriks1966]

They will publish the report for Q2 FY 2019 - from July to September. The WG60 isn't even announced yet.

Wait and see.....they did this before.

[normhead]

The last time I was in the market for that type of camera, I went to one of those top 10 lists. They refused to review the new Pentax because it was virtually the same as the WG 50.

I'm of two mind about that. One I went for a Nikon AW 130, I seriously dislike it and don't use it often, most times using my old Optio W90. But I got it at a better price.

So my question to Pentax is, why even do this update. If there is so little change, at least compete on price. A WG 50 for half the cost would have been a winner for me. I'm not going to pay a premium dollar for a "new" release that's so close to the WG 50, that reviewers just put a link to the WG 50 and say "read this if interested in the Pentax."

My heavy reliance on my Optio W90 for pictures taken on canoe trips means I would like a better camera. I like the Nikon so little, I'm writing it off as waste of money. But I'm not paying $500 CDN for a revamp of 5 year old tech. I want my 5 year old tech, at a 5 year old tech price. Better to look for a WG 60 second hand and save a pile of money. My old Optio W80 is still going strong, I gave it to a friend. These cameras don't die. Maybe that's the problem, for Pentax. A 10 year window for repeat sales doesn't help the bottom line. My w90 was submerged in a puddle on an ATV trail for 2 months before it was rescued., and clearly it was run over by ATVs a few times. I took it home, dried it out, it still works fine. They are tough cameras to kill. But it doesn't keep the time and date during battery changes. That's easier to live with than a new camera that doesn't ad any new capability at a new higher price.